LongRider Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Value Voters? Great. The Moral Majority Redux. I wish these dated assholes would just go away. Trump really has set the Wayback Machine here in terms of progress. That's where my quote about him saying 'we can say Merry Christmas' again come from. puke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said: That's where my quote about him saying 'we can say Merry Christmas' again come from. puke I didn't realize that was the same speech. Remember when we couldn't say Merry Christmas? At least when there is no free press or fair and open elections, and sex and reproduction are strictly regulated, we will finally be able to say Merry Christmas. Praise white Jesus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 20 minutes ago, Morpheus said: He decertified and said that if Congress and the US allies can not meet his demands for an amended deal, he will sink it completely. In other news, Trump is going to make an appearance at anti-LGBtQ group summit. He has addressed them before as a candidate, but he will be the first sitting President to speak at their function. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-anti-lgbt-address-hate-group-summit-meeting-first-president-us-homphobia-a7997401.html?amp He's such a fucking dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 Yeah, to me this rebirth of The Moral Majority is far more dangerous than White Nationalism in that it is far more prevalent, and has 2,000 year old, widely accepted dogma molding and driving it. *Shudder* This to me is the true face of potential American fascism in our age. I know that view is somewhat hyperbolic, but if you look at instances like say California's proposition 8 controversy, there is so much money and public support behind these regressive ideas that they trump concerns regarding White Nationalism. I suppose that you can link those two movements to some degree, but the Religious Right form of this sort of persecution is far more subtle and much more widely accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I don't think the Moral Majority ever really went away or lost influence. Bush was one of them, McCain was critical in 2000 but learned his lesson and sucked up in 2008. You don't get to be a major candidate in the Republican Party unless you prostrate yourself before the religous right. It is a big part of why the Republicans went off the deep end, they cater to Christian extremism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, Morpheus said: I don't think the Moral Majority ever really went away or lost influence. Bush was one of them, McCain was critical in 2000 but learned his lesson and sucked up in 2008. You don't get to be a major candidate in the Republican Party unless you prostrate yourself before the religous right. It is a big part of why the Republicans went off the deep end, they cater to Christian extremism. Yeah, I agree that they never truly went away, but they haven't been this relevant in years, methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 One has to wonder, with great dread, what Trump’s Administration will look like after Tillerson, Kelly, Mattis and McMaster finally say, “F this, we’re out.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Any time there is a Republican in the White House they will dance with the one that brought em. Trump is interesting because he reveals their utter hypocrisy, multiple divorcee, vulgar, never remotely publicly religious until it was politically useful. Choosing Pence seemed like concession to them, a vetran warrior against gays, and genuine religious lunatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 9 hours ago, Morpheus said: Trump is putting an end to ACA subsidies http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/12/trump-obamacare-subsidy-243736 Important clarification: These are not the primary, individual-level subsidies that people use to help cover their premiums from ACA exchange plans. These are different, aggregate-level subsides that go directly to insurers to keep premiums lower in the first place. It's still bad that they're being ended, but its not going to cripple the law. In fact, the CBO-estimated consequences of them being ended are kinda strange. There will be an estimated 1 million more uninsured people, from less plans being offered and a few people staying away due to higher premiums. But the way the primary subsidy formulas work, most people on ACA plans will see the size of their subsidy increase by more on their premium increases. So much so that the government will end up spending more money than if they had just kept the aggregate subsidies going. In other words, the net result of all this is 1 million more uninsured folks, lower out-of-pocket costs for the remaining ACA plan enrollees, and increased Federal spending. Weird, counter-intuitive stuff. But that's what happens when you make decisions based on spite rather than policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 46 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: One has to wonder, with great dread, what Trump’s Administration will look like after Tillerson, Kelly, Mattis and McMaster finally say, “F this, we’re out.” I think most if not all of the above will be out by or shortly after the midterms at this rate. Tillerson and Kelly I'd put money on. McMaster will probably follow soon thereafter as Bannon and co. refocus their aim towards him. I think Mattis most certainly has the most staying power. Anyway, not only is this terrifying, but so too is merely recognizing we're only about 20% through his term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Morpheus said: I didn't realize that was the same speech. Remember when we couldn't say Merry Christmas? At least when there is no free press or fair and open elections, and sex and reproduction are strictly regulated, we will finally be able to say Merry Christmas. Praise white Jesus! https://www.google.com/search?q=jesus+riding+dinosaur&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#imgrc=U2fDX08djV1TeM: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 15 minutes ago, dmc515 said: I think most if not all of the above will be out by or shortly after the midterms at this rate. Tillerson and Kelly I'd put money on. I very much doubt Tillerson makes it to the midterms. Earlier reports said he wanted to make it at least a year, so I'm sure he'll be gone by spring. Quote Anyway, not only is this terrifying, but so too is merely recognizing we're only about 20% through his term. True, and while the thought of the non-crazies leaving is worrisome, there's also reason to think that this might be the worst 20% of his term. Most presidents get a lot done right after being elected, when they have electoral capital to spend and want to push new initiatives. Trump has wasted that opportunity. It is almost impossible to get pass legislation in the six months before elections, so time is getting short on getting anything done this term. After the midterms, things may get worse for Trump. If the Democrats take back one house of Congress, then they can provide a real check on him and open investigations into all his crimes and abuses. Even if they don't, the House majority is almost assuredly going to decrease, which will make Paul Ryan's job even harder. This might be counterbalanced by possibly picking up a couple of seats in the Senate, but it remains to be seen if that will happen or not. Worst case scenario* is Trump's culture wars play well enough to keep a 15-20 seat edge in the House, and pick up 2-3 seats in the Senate. That result would probably be so disgusting that the non-crazies quit in disgust. Then we're really in for it. * Yes I'm well aware the real worst case scenario is definitely nuclear war. Excepting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 52 minutes ago, Fez said: Important clarification: These are not the primary, individual-level subsidies that people use to help cover their premiums from ACA exchange plans. These are different, aggregate-level subsides that go directly to insurers to keep premiums lower in the first place. It's still bad that they're being ended, but its not going to cripple the law. In fact, the CBO-estimated consequences of them being ended are kinda strange. There will be an estimated 1 million more uninsured people, from less plans being offered and a few people staying away due to higher premiums. But the way the primary subsidy formulas work, most people on ACA plans will see the size of their subsidy increase by more on their premium increases. So much so that the government will end up spending more money than if they had just kept the aggregate subsidies going. In other words, the net result of all this is 1 million more uninsured folks, lower out-of-pocket costs for the remaining ACA plan enrollees, and increased Federal spending. Weird, counter-intuitive stuff. But that's what happens when you make decisions based on spite rather than policy. I read an analysis, although can't remember where right now, that this particular EO most hurts people likely to have voted for Trump. Basically, older Americans who need comprehensive insurance, are self-employed or work for small businesses and who make too much money to qualify for subsidies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 6 hours ago, aceluby said: Isn't Judaism a religion? Is 'Jewish ancestry' just that you have ancestors that practiced Judaism? How is that in any way meaningful? That's what I meant. I mean, we elected Nazis, for fucks sake, don't think a practicing Jew has a chance, but I'm bitter this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 15 minutes ago, Maithanet said: I very much doubt Tillerson makes it to the midterms. Earlier reports said he wanted to make it at least a year, so I'm sure he'll be gone by spring. Agreed. 16 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Most presidents get a lot done right after being elected, when they have electoral capital to spend and want to push new initiatives. Trump has wasted that opportunity. It is almost impossible to get pass legislation in the six months before elections, so time is getting short on getting anything done this term. After the midterms, things may get worse for Trump. Agreed again! The only counter in modern times to this is the Clinton administration. He faltered as well out of the gate, but got his bearings largely after replacing his boyhood buddy Mack McLarty with Leon Panetta as CoS. For a host of reasons, I don't see such a recovery for Trump. 18 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Even if they don't, the House majority is almost assuredly going to decrease, which will make Paul Ryan's job even harder. This might be counterbalanced by possibly picking up a couple of seats in the Senate, but it remains to be seen if that will happen or not. An increase in Senate seats is only going to counterbalance it insofar as it helps them get to 50 votes on reconciliation measures (which makes retaking the House all the more essential). Unless, of course, they get to 60, but that seems doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 I know you guys are specifically talking about the Presidency, but there are so many Jewish politicians in higher office that I'm not sure that it's a fully legitimate concern. If you had an Obama equivalent who was Jewish, his or her religion wouldn't prevent them from gaining the office, methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: I know you guys are specifically talking about the Presidency, but there are so many Jewish politicians in higher office that I'm not sure that it's a fully legitimate concern. If you had an Obama equivalent who was Jewish, his or her religion wouldn't prevent them from gaining the office, methinks. I dunno, that Christmas thing above just fuels my bitterness more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 http://www.burrardstreetjournal.com/trump-mocks-trudeau-celebrating-thanksgiving-6-weeks-early/ He's just awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, dmc515 said: An increase in Senate seats is only going to counterbalance it insofar as it helps them get to 50 votes on reconciliation measures (which makes retaking the House all the more essential). Unless, of course, they get to 60, but that seems doubtful. Right, but even just with reconciliation they could do a lot. If they had 54 votes in the Senate, they could definitely pass some sort of health care bill. The question is whether Ryan could hold things together to pass anything in the House if his majority went from 240-194 to say, 225-209. I'm not sure he could; he has enough trouble with his caucus now when he only needs 91% of Republicans to get to 218. If that increased to 97% (in the 225-209 scenario)? Not going to be pretty. And 225-209 in the House + 54 seats in the senate is a very good midterm for Republicans. Maybe not the dream scenario, but it's close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Do you think there's much chance of fissures in the Republican Senate caucus? If/when Roy Moore gets in, that's another member of the Teahadi/theocrat wing that is openly hostile to McConnell. It's already hard enough to get them all in the same tent for votes, might be tougher now that a loyal stooge like Strange is out and a loose cannon like Moore replaces him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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