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U.S. Politics: Can't Stand It, I Know Ya Planned It, Gotta Set It Straight this Morongate


Manhole Eunuchsbane

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4 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

Yeah, but that junior Senator from Illinois had more charisma in his pinky toe than all of congress combined.

That doesn't negate the point that Obama was relatively unknown. And I am not sure he would have clinched the nomination without Ted Kennedy backing him. And I don't know how charismatic Harris or Bullock are. Chances are they are not in the same league as Obama, but very few are. Having that said, I think Obama's endorsement will probably be worth quite a bit, especially early in the primary cycle.

3 hours ago, Ormond said:

I think Obama was probably better known than Bullock at this point in the Presidential election cycle because of his famous speech at the previous national Democratic party convention.

Me not being an American, I am not sure how widely Obama's convention speech was remembered by people who are not interested in politics (generally speaking). So if you say, it was still remembered by a lot of Americans four years later, I will (have to) take your word on it.

However, an American acquitance mentioned Dean as favorite to win the nomination very early in the cycle. But then Dean somewhat imploded. So I am not sure that Dean was that unknown. This is more anecdotal, so if you say Dean was unknown, I have to take your word on it.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

I dunno, that Christmas thing above just fuels my bitterness more.

Oh yeah, it's fucking ridiculous. Happy Holidays is something you say to simplify things. Like who really feels they can't say Merry Christmas to somebody? The only time anyone is likely to take offense to it is if you are trying to be offensive about it. 

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6 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Do you think there's much chance of fissures in the Republican Senate caucus? If/when Roy Moore gets in, that's another member of the Teahadi/theocrat wing that is openly hostile to McConnell.

That's Bannon's plan.  The only GOP incumbent apparently safe from his wrath is Cruz.

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3 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

That's Bannon's plan.  The only GOP incumbent apparently safe from his wrath is Cruz.

Yup, just wondering how far the split in the GOP is going to go. I've been waiting years for this vile party to finally go Night of the Long Knives on each other, and this is the first time the comparison has felt non-hyperbolic.  (Would that just make it "bolic"?)

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@dmc515, @Maithanet,

I agree with almost everything you two have discussed, but there’s one thing you didn’t bring up that’s been on my mind for a while. Do you think there’s any chance that the rumored suicide pact is legit?

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1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I know you guys are specifically talking about the Presidency, but there are so many Jewish politicians in higher office that I'm not sure that it's a fully legitimate concern. If you had an Obama equivalent who was Jewish, his or her religion wouldn't prevent them from gaining the office, methinks.

I think it’s a lot easier for people to vote for women and minorities when they’re running for lower offices, but the Presidency is different. And with regards to a Jewish candidate for president, I’m Jewish and I look like a could have been a model for a Nazi propaganda poster and I can tell without a shadow of a doubt that a lot of people are still super anti-Semitic.

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I would have to do a lot of research to do this correctly, but just imagine if every time the office of President changed parties, the new President destroyed every major achievement of the previous presidency.

Imagine if in the first few months of Nixon's presidency, he undid, by executive action no less, all the legislation of the Great Society, cancelled the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and 1968 and the 1965 Voting Rights Act, stopped the appointment of black judges to the USSC, cancelled funding for schools across the USA, wiped out the National Endowment for the Humanities and for the Arts , junked food stamps, Medicare, Medicaid, Work Study and Head Start, eliminated manned space programs, and overturned the Immigration Act.

What a different USA you want have today.

 

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4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think it’s a lot easier for people to vote for women and minorities when they’re running for lower offices, but the Presidency is different. And with regards to a Jewish candidate for president, I’m Jewish and I look like a could have been a model for a Nazi propaganda poster and I can tell without a shadow of a doubt that a lot of people are still super anti-Semitic.

As problematic as electing a black man? A woman? I don't know, I'm not meaning to downplay that it's still out there, just not sure that is more endemic.  

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1 hour ago, Notone said:

That doesn't negate the point that Obama was relatively unknown. And I am not sure he would have clinched the nomination without Ted Kennedy backing him. And I don't know how charismatic Harris or Bullock are. Chances are they are not in the same league as Obama, but very few are. Having that said, I think Obama's endorsement will probably be worth quite a bit, especially early in the primary cycle.

Me not being an American, I am not sure how widely Obama's convention speech was remembered by people who are not interested in politics (generally speaking). So if you say, it was still remembered by a lot of Americans four years later, I will (have to) take your word on it.

However, an American acquitance mentioned Dean as favorite to win the nomination very early in the cycle. But then Dean somewhat imploded. So I am not sure that Dean was that unknown. This is more anecdotal, so if you say Dean was unknown, I have to take your word on it.

I remembering watching Obama's convention speech with my parents and remarking at the time "If Kerry doesn't win, he's going to be elected President in 4 years." My parents were both Republicans and dismissed my statement. 

I wasn't nearly as involved in politics as I am now, and I remember that being an extremely powerful and moving speech.

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29 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

@dmc515, @Maithanet,

I agree with almost everything you two have discussed, but there’s one thing you didn’t bring up that’s been on my mind for a while. Do you think there’s any chance that the rumored suicide pact is legit?

I don't put too much credence in it.

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28 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I remembering watching Obama's convention speech with my parents and remarking at the time "If Kerry doesn't win, he's going to be elected President in 4 years." My parents were both Republicans and dismissed my statement. 

I wasn't nearly as involved in politics as I am now, and I remember that being an extremely powerful and moving speech.

It was powerful and moving and very eloquent. It was, in retrospect, foolishly optimistic and maybe fundamentally misguided about the nature of America.

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3 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

It was powerful and moving and very eloquent. It was, in retrospect, foolishly optimistic and maybe fundamentally misguided about the nature of America.

Yes, this too, which was bourne out by the reaction to his election.

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39 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

As problematic as electing a black man? A woman? I don't know, I'm not meaning to downplay that it's still out there, just not sure that is more endemic.  

Truth be told I have no idea, but I know a lot of people on the right say they're a Christian first, a conservative second and a Republican third, and while all of them certainty aren't anti-Semitic,  a lot of them are and I suspect devout Christians would have a hard time voting for someone who wasn't a Christian. It's in part why Trump did what he did today.

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36 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I remembering watching Obama's convention speech with my parents and remarking at the time "If Kerry doesn't win, he's going to be elected President in 4 years." My parents were both Republicans and dismissed my statement. 

Yeah, it was the one thing that stood out to me. I remember having dinner with the super politically engaged side of my family in early 07 when I was a freshman in college and they asked me who I thought the candidates would be and I said Obama and McCain and they all laughed because they were so sure it would be Clinton and Romney. Who's laughing now?

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1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

non-hyperbolic.  (Would that just make it "bolic"?)

This is totally out of left field, but for some reason I've thought for years that the adjective form of hyperbole was hyperbolous rather than hyperbolic. But I couldn't provide you with any reason I thought this, or from where I obtained this information.

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@DanteGabriel

MSJ, please take it to US Politics and I'll respond there. 

And me bringing up coal is not a personal shot at you -- it is a clear example of an industry that gets more attention and hand-wringing from right wing politicians than its size warrants (not to minimize the suffering of those affected by it) because the people affected are mostly white men.

I recognize that. But, what else are in WV but white men? Someone posted in the other thread what Hillary would've done. She wouldn't have, just like Trump isn't going to do anything. I find it funny that people don't recognize the reason Trump is in office is because the white working man has been ignored for decades. And, Trump noticed that and fed upon it. The Democrats messed up, they ignored their biggest constituency for a long time. At a certain point, people get fed up with it. Bill Maher said it, a host of MSNBC and CNN hosts said it and it's the truth. Wether your willing to believe it or comes to terms with it, that's on you. It has nothing g to do with privledge. In fact, just working where I work (Coca-Cola factory), I see that at least a 5-1 ratio of minorities/women hired over whired men. The days of white privledge are slowly starting to fade. Is it a bad thing, no. But, it should be based upon experience and such, not your skin color. And, I know I'll catch flack for what I say next, but, it's the truth, at least where I work and others say the same thing at different factories in the same area. The ones who end up staying and working for our company are white males. And our job is not strenuous. Why is that? I don't know. I think it's today's youth, they don't think they have to work to make a living. They work for two weeks, get a paycheck and see ya later. 

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