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U.S. Politics: Can't Stand It, I Know Ya Planned It, Gotta Set It Straight this Morongate


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2 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Do you think there's much chance of fissures in the Republican Senate caucus?

There are already plenty of fissures there, as we'll see more of over the next months, so not sure what you mean. I think the party can handle more wingnuts like Moore - those weren't the one preventing the party from coming together on at least one OCare repeal solution. I'd say their problems would be larger if there were more outspoken centrists in the Senate like McCain, Murkowski and Collins. It's the centrists that are really fucking with the Senate's ability to deliver, and who could subsequently make Republicans so frustrated with each other that they might not be able to co-exist.

This is the part that scares me. Bannon might give Dems more political power by blowing shit up over the next one to four years. But after that we might actually be looking at a Republican party without moderates to get in the way of passing insane legislation and delivering on insane promises. Unless we start seeing the rise of moderate Republican voters and media outlets soon, there isn't much to keep the notion of moderate Republican politicians alive in the future.

This alone is a reason to watch for a Kasich primary run. He's not going to defeat Trump, but if he can actually bring a certain number of Republican voters back from the brink of madness, and show that there are voters willing to support that style of right-wing politics, the country might not be that fucked. Just, you know, slightly.

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3 hours ago, Notone said:

That doesn't negate the point that Obama was relatively unknown. And I am not sure he would have clinched the nomination without Ted Kennedy backing him. And I don't know how charismatic Harris or Bullock are.

To the Kennedy part: I am certain he still would have won, his speeches energized millions who didn't even care about politics.

To the Harris and Bullock part: They're not even close.

 

Question to the folks in this thread: Would you welcome Anthony Wiener back to congress if he ran?

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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

@dmc515, @Maithanet,

I agree with almost everything you two have discussed, but there’s one thing you didn’t bring up that’s been on my mind for a while. Do you think there’s any chance that the rumored suicide pact is legit?

 

1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

I don't put too much credence in it.

I think it may have some merit as a credible threat towards Trump acting rashly (which completely makes sense) but no, I don't think it will actually transpire.  First, because I don't see Trump firing Mattis, and if he fires Mnuchin he pretty much already has cause.  Same thing for Tillerson, really, and I think whenever Rex leaves the feeling will be pretty mutual regardless.

2 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Yup, just wondering how far the split in the GOP is going to go. I've been waiting years for this vile party to finally go Night of the Long Knives on each other, and this is the first time the comparison has felt non-hyperbolic.  (Would that just make it "bolic"?)

Well, I agree that it is more "bolic" now than it ever has been, but the split is already having an effect:  in spite of unified government you cannot really refer to the GOP as a governing party such as it is.  If Bannon's great primary fiasco is somewhat successful, and I expect it will be, this will indeed only exacerbate the problem broadly (yet at the same time perhaps giving them 50 votes on health care as discussed above).

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2 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Yup, just wondering how far the split in the GOP is going to go. I've been waiting years for this vile party to finally go Night of the Long Knives on each other, and this is the first time the comparison has felt non-hyperbolic.  (Would that just make it "bolic"?)

The word you're looking for is "parabolic". Or possibly "elliptic".

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32 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

To the Kennedy part: I am certain he still would have won, his speeches energized millions who didn't even care about politics.

To the Harris and Bullock part: They're not even close.

 

Question to the folks in this thread: Would you welcome Anthony Wiener back to congress if he ran?

Fuck no, fuck that guy.

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38 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

To the Kennedy part: I am certain he still would have won, his speeches energized millions who didn't even care about politics.

To the Harris and Bullock part: They're not even close.

 

Question to the folks in this thread: Would you welcome Anthony Wiener back to congress if he ran?

The registered sex offender in federal prison for sexting a minor? Yeah, no thanks. We already have an (unregistered) sex offender in office; no need for two.

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40 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Question to the folks in this thread: Would you welcome Anthony Wiener back to congress if he ran?

While it's something I'm sure has been considered in the past, you still cannot make floor votes from prison.

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1 hour ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

@DanteGabriel

I recognize that. But, what else are in WV but white men? Someone posted in the other thread what Hillary would've done. She wouldn't have, just like Trump isn't going to do anything. I find it funny that people don't recognize the reason Trump is in office is because the white working man has been ignored for decades. And, Trump noticed that and fed upon it. The Democrats messed up, they ignored their biggest constituency for a long time. At a certain point, people get fed up with it. Bill Maher said it, a host of MSNBC and CNN hosts said it and it's the truth. Wether your willing to believe it or comes to terms with it, that's on you. It has nothing g to do with privledge. In fact, just working where I work (Coca-Cola factory), I see that at least a 5-1 ratio of minorities/women hired over whired men. The days of white privledge are slowly starting to fade. Is it a bad thing, no. But, it should be based upon experience and such, not your skin color. And, I know I'll catch flack for what I say next, but, it's the truth, at least where I work and others say the same thing at different factories in the same area. The ones who end up staying and working for our company are white males. And our job is not strenuous. Why is that? I don't know. I think it's today's youth, they don't think they have to work to make a living. They work for two weeks, get a paycheck and see ya later. 

I'll come back and respond when I have some time to gather my thoughts. It's a big topic.

 

41 minutes ago, theguyfromtheVale said:

The word you're looking for is "parabolic". Or possibly "elliptic".

Thanks!

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Unless we start seeing the rise of moderate Republican voters and media outlets soon, there isn't much to keep the notion of moderate Republican politicians alive in the future.

I have a theory that the Republicans need traitors to remain viable.They seem to appear over and over at key moments. Look at Roberts and Obamacare. Sure he put a hole in it, but he could have just sunk it all. Look at abortion and the various betrayals on that from Republican justices. Are we really going to suddenly overnight have abortion be illegal in blue states? It seems like it would be hugely damaging to the Republican party for it to happen in 2018 or whenever. Or maybe I'm wrong and we're headed to the Handmaid's Tale.

Why Trump’s Obamacare Sabotage May Backfire — and Give Millions Free Health Care

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/10/how-trumps-latest-attack-on-obamacare-could-help-the-poor.html

Andrew Sullivan: Trump’s Mindless Nihilism

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/10/andrew-sullivan-trump-mindless-nihilism.html

Steve Bannon’s Insurrection Might Also Be an Anti-Impeachment Strategy

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/10/bannons-insurrection-might-be-an-anti-impeachment-strategy.html

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

 

I recognize that. But, what else are in WV but white men? Someone posted in the other thread what Hillary would've done. She wouldn't have, just like Trump isn't going to do anything. I find it funny that people don't recognize the reason Trump is in office is because the white working man has been ignored for decades. And, Trump noticed that and fed upon it. The Democrats messed up, they ignored their biggest constituency for a long time. At a certain point, people get fed up with it. Bill Maher said it, a host of MSNBC and CNN hosts said it and it's the truth. Wether your willing to believe it or comes to terms with it, that's on you. It has nothing g to do with privledge. In fact, just working where I work (Coca-Cola factory), I see that at least a 5-1 ratio of minorities/women hired over whired men. The days of white privledge are slowly starting to fade. Is it a bad thing, no. But, it should be based upon experience and such, not your skin color. And, I know I'll catch flack for what I say next, but, it's the truth, at least where I work and others say the same thing at different factories in the same area. The ones who end up staying and working for our company are white males. And our job is not strenuous. Why is that? I don't know. I think it's today's youth, they don't think they have to work to make a living. They work for two weeks, get a paycheck and see ya later. 

Right, white privilege couldn't have anything to do with why white men stay and get promoted.  Because it's fading.  

It's probably about today's youths' collective work ethic and ethics in gaming journalism.

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2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Truth be told I have no idea, but I know a lot of people on the right say they're a Christian first, a conservative second and a Republican third, and while all of them certainty aren't anti-Semitic,  a lot of them are and I suspect devout Christians would have a hard time voting for someone who wasn't a Christian. It's in part why Trump did what he did today.

In September 2015 the Gallup poll found that 91% of Americans said they would vote for a Jewish candidate for President --which means the majority of those who would claim they are "evangelical" Christians must have said they would vote for a Jewish candidate. I know that answering an abstract question is different from one's reaction to a particular candidate, but I think if 91% will tell Gallup they'd vote for a Jewish candidate, a charismatic Jewish candidate could certainly get to 51% in a real election. 

And I know a lot of "devout Christians" who would vote for a non-Christian for President. Of course, I am a mainline Protestant who is a member of a liberal-leaning congregation.

http://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/185813/six-americans-say-yes-muslim-president.aspx

P.S. By the way, i would say I am a Christian first, a liberal second, and a Democrat way, way third.

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30 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Are we really going to suddenly overnight have abortion be illegal in blue states? It seems like it would be hugely damaging to the Republican party for it to happen in 2018 or whenever.

Certainly not 2018. Rush the big changes, and even your own people start getting uncomfortable with the reality of what they've wished for in theory. Like with OCare which suddenly spiked in popularity. Although abortion is a different issue because you don't need to provide an alternative solution to make the anti-abortionists happy.

But Roe vs Wade can and will be overturned in a political environment where Bannon has succesfully trounced any Republican who would dare voice any kind of moderate views and it's a race to moral rock bottom. Which is why Democrats either need to take back power and keep it so the Republican party starts fracturing and evolving in different directions, or the mythological centrist Republican voters need to start making themselves visible soon.

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4 minutes ago, Ormond said:

In September 2015 the Gallup poll found that 91% of Americans said they would vote for a Jewish candidate for President --which means the majority of those who would claim they are "evangelical" Christians must have said they would vote for a Jewish candidate. I know that answering an abstract question is different from one's reaction to a particular candidate, but I think if 91% will tell Gallup they'd vote for a Jewish candidate, a charismatic Jewish candidate could certainly get to 51% in a real election. 

And I know a lot of "devout Christians" who would vote for a non-Christian for President. Of course, I am a mainline Protestant who is a member of a liberal-leaning congregation.

http://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/185813/six-americans-say-yes-muslim-president.aspx

 

Well, thats good to here, but I've kind soured on gallop lately since that whole Trump thing.

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But Roe vs Wade can and will be overturned in a political environment where Bannon has succesfully trounced any Republican who would dare voice any kind of moderate views and it's a race to moral rock bottom. Which is why Democrats either need to take back power and keep it so the Republican party starts fracturing and evolving in different directions, or the mythological centrist Republican voters need to start making themselves visible soon.

The thing is, if things play out like you'd think they'd play out, then Roe Vs Wade would be overturned the second Kennedy or one of the older liberal justices retired or died. And no meddling from Bannon is necessary. It's the type of justice Trump would choose. But that assumes no traitor appears. And that is likely to happen, unless Dems take the Senate in 2018, which is unlikely. Yet, there is this pattern of Republican traitors, who seem to save the Republican party from themselves at key moments. 

And immediately after,  conservative activists would demand gay marriage be overturned. And their greed wouldn't be slaked there. They'd have some other demands. And none of this happens in a vacuum. And of course, the Republicans would have to figure out enforcement.

None of it would happen literally overnight by the way. It'd take a year or whatever for lawsuits to work through the courts. But it'd appear to be overnight to many normal people who don't watch politics every day.

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1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

Right, white privilege couldn't have anything to do with why white men stay and get promoted.  Because it's fading.  

It's probably about today's youths' collective work ethic and ethics in gaming journalism.

Look, I've heard very good arguments from black women and men that TODAY, not 40 years ago, white privledge is becoming a myth and an excuse. Is it right, I don't know. Some seen to think so. We've had a black president, the highest office in this country. There are white regions as poor as any black areas, and getting out of that situation is just is tough. Its a huge debate. 

Yes, the work ethic of today's youth is cringe worthy. I'm in management and help with hiring. Its ridiculous how many young people we go through. That are just lazy and expect to come to work and collect a check. 

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