Iron Mother

Exonerating Littlefinger Once And For All (S05E03 TRANSCRIPT)

104 posts in this topic

For everyone still blaming Littlefinger for the fakefalse Sansa bitterness over all things Ramsey Bolton:

Below is the only interaction LF and Ramsey ever had.  And since this plot was not in the book, we can only go by the horrific writing of the show to create lame drama.  Sansa ends up proclaiming LF was an "idiot" for him not knowing about Ramsey's proclivities for beating people and ends up having him murdered on the floor of Winterfell great hall in revenge.  Yet, she chose to marry Ramsey and was never forced or coerced.

Sansa is just another example of men writing female characters who make the rest of womankind look like weak idiot fools - fools who end up blaming men they gave power to and then lash out at those men when things do not go their way.

This is a cry for strong women who take responsibility for their own actions and bite down HARD when things get tough instead of weeping in Godswoods of their own making.

****************************************************************************

Ramsey: She really is lovely.  I hope I can make her happy.

LF: I hope so too.  Ive become quite fond of Lady Sansa during our travels together.  She's suffered enough.  

Ramsey: I'll never hurt her.  You have my word.

LF: I've heard very little about you.  Which makes you quite a rare thing as far as Lords go.

Ramsey: I haven't been a Lord very long.  I was a bastard....

Roose Bolton: ...and you're not anymore.  Alow me a word with Lord Baelish.

Ramsey: Yes, father... and thank you Lord Baelish.  I am forever in your debt.

LF: He seems pleased.

Roose Bolton: Shouldn't he be?

 

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Well, first of all, Littlefinger is the main manipulator in the whole show. He pulls all the strings and causes the wars. There is absolutely no need at all to exonerate him. He is the master of intrigues and scheming.

But you are right, whether or not he is aware of the sadistic trait of Ramsay Bolton, we do not know. Maybe the dialogue reflects the true insight of Littlefinger or maybe he is just smart and polite. Whatever Littlefinger says can be a lie. He is the master of lies.

Sansa is a stupid cow, basically. She mellowed a little bit in season 7, but up to season 6 she was naive, quite dumb and easy to be manipulated. And that was what Littlefinger did. He arranged a marriage not for the best of Sansa, but for the best for his personal game of thrones. He did not physically forced her, but he manipulated her into marrying Bolton. Remember the dialogue between Sansa and Littlefinger when they first view Maidengarden on their way North. Sansa stating very clearly, "no, I wont marry Bolton. They killed my family" and Littlefinger manipulating her into agreeing to the marriage. 

Again, you are right, that Sansa was stupid and has to cope with the consequences of her own actions. Had she been smarter and more mature, she would simply have said no, dumped Little Finger and accepted the help of Brienne.

Considering how tough and smart Arya is at two years younger thoughout all seasons, Sansa is meant to be seen as naive and princess-like. Or little Lady Mormont, how tough and courageous she is...there is no excuse for the older Sansa to be stupid.

So, after all: Exonerate Littlefinger? Maybe he really did not know about the sadism. Maybe he did. We simple don't know.

 

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On 8/10/2017 at 8:20 AM, Iron Mother said:

Sansa ends up proclaiming LF was an "idiot" for him not knowing about Ramsey's proclivities for beating people and ends up having him murdered on the floor of Winterfell great hall in revenge. 

Well, she didn't have him murdered, she had him executed, those are two different things. And the Ramsay thing was  only one of the factors considered, it was far from being the main one; otherwise Sansa would have had him killed by Brienne when they met in Mole's Town. Littlefinger was executed for the betrayal of Ned and Catelyn Stark, for the murders of Jon and Lysa Arryn, and because he was plotting to put the Stark sisters against each other, He was still tirelessly pursuing the complete destruction of  House Stark  for his personal gain, and simply he had to be taken down.

This was not about Sansa not taking responsability for her own actions, she had no responsability in almost anything of what LF did to her family. And while she was not forced to marry Ramsay, she was certainly manipulated and lied.

7 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Again, you are right, that Sansa was stupid and has to cope with the consequences of her own actions. Had she been smarter and more mature, she would simply have said no, dumped Little Finger and accepted the help of Brienne.

Considering how tough and smart Arya is at two years younger thoughout all seasons, Sansa is meant to be seen as naive and princess-like. Or little Lady Mormont, how tough and courageous she is...there is no excuse for the older Sansa to be stupid

In this I agree. But it's hard for me to blame a 15 years old girl who falls  into the intrigues of a consummate manipulative liar, when people much older and more experienced than she is (such as Cersei) also did so. 

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On 08.10.2017 at 2:20 PM, Iron Mother said:

Sansa is just another example of men writing female characters who make the rest of womankind look like weak idiot fools - fools who end up blaming men they gave power to and then lash out at those men when things do not go their way.

This is a cry for strong women who take responsibility for their own actions and bite down HARD when things get tough instead of weeping in Godswoods of their own making.

Sansa IS a weak idiot fool. Both in books and on the show. D&D didn't make her more stupid than she is in ASOIAF. The main difference is that when you read a book, everything is more streched out, and less expressive, than basically the same things when they are shown on screen, in compressed/limited time frame. In GOT Sansa's stupidity, weakness, and spinelessness looks more defined than in the books, but it's caused by difference in formats, not by D&D's writing.

Also LF did manipulated Sansa into thinking, that she can win Ramsay over with her woman charm, and she was stupid enough to believe him. There's many strongwilled and smart women, both in ASOIAF and GOT - Lyanna, Dany, Olenna, Cersei, Arya, Margaery, Cat, Brienna, Missandei. But all female characters can't be smart and strong, at least someone should be weak and stupid, to add some diversity into characters' pool.

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I absolute agree with the OP of this topic. LF gave Sansa the opportunity to opt out of the marriage, he didn't know about Ramsay and he told Ramsay to be kind to Sansa.

I don't know if there is a more appropriate topic to post this in, but I was absolutely disgusted with Sandra (from my perspective, the character Sansa has been replaced by an evil doppelganger who resembles her only physically) in the finale, and screaming at the TV. I call it murder because the whole trial was a sham. This was sprung on LF out of nowhere, he wasn't given a chance to prepare for it (or demand a trial by combat), and most of the accusations against him originated from someone (Bran) who could not possibly have been there. Aside from the whole deal about the man who passes sentence should swing the sword, Arya went ahead and murdered LF without a word from Sandra (who nonetheless completely endorsed this). This, if I'm not mistaken, also violates Guest Right.

The evidence was also hideously biased against LF. No mention was made of the fact that he saved Sandra and Jon and liberated Winterfell by marching in with the Vale Army, even though Sandra herself notes it at the start of the season. He was the reason they were all sitting in Winterfell. He got their home back. Apparently no good deed goes unpunished. As for his other charges:

  • Murdering Lysa. Sandra omits the fact that he saved her life, and her statement here totally contradicts what she said late in season 4 when she said it was suicide. As LF pointed out in his final scene, Lysa would have killed Sansa if he hadn't intervened.
  • Betraying Ned. Yes, this screwed over Ned and the Starks severely, although (1) he did warn him earlier not to trust him, and (2) LF only did this after Ned refused his suggestion to install Joffrey on the throne. A Stannis regime would have been very bad for LF.
  • Jon Arryn's death. Lysa did this, not LF.
  • Arya started the conflict with Sandra, not LF. (She started going off at her before she ever even saw the latter, which she decided off her own bat to steal into LF's room and steal if.) Yet Arya gets off scot-free.
  • True, he was somewhat involved in playing Cat and Lysa against each other, though Lysa seemed pretty crazy anyway and it was her decision to do all this, and Cat's decision to arrest Tyrion. It's debatable whether playing people against each other qualifies as a crime, legally, and certainly does not warrant death.

Given the life-saving assistance provided by LF to the Starks in recent seasons, I would have thought banishing him would be an appropriate punishment (similar to what Dany did to Jorah). Even making him take the black (as both Tyrion and Ned were given the chance to do) would seem to be a bit harsh. But murdering him? LF seemed like the victim in this storyline; Jon and Sandra both treated him like rubbish, despite his attempts to give Sandra more good advice and him giving his dagger to Bran. Jon told LF to leave his sister alone; a pity he didn't tell his sister to leave LF alone.

I'm so upset about the finale. LF was my favourite character being the only decent villain remaining and he got betrayed and murdered by the girl he supported, mentored, saved, trained and admired, who also used to be one of my favourite characters but having turned into the opposite of what she was, is now my least favourite by a country mile.

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I'm surprised that Littlefinger, if he didn't know about Ramsay, didn't know.

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Ramsay could have be a saint, but she still was sold. That being said, Sansa's still right to blame Littlefinger for her predicaments during her time with Ramsay, considering that her if her so-called protector truly loved her and wanted to protect her, he should have done a background check on the groom.

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12 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Well, first of all, Littlefinger is the main manipulator in the whole show. He pulls all the strings and causes the wars. There is absolutely no need at all to exonerate him. He is the master of intrigues and scheming.

But you are right, whether or not he is aware of the sadistic trait of Ramsay Bolton, we do not know. Maybe the dialogue reflects the true insight of Littlefinger or maybe he is just smart and polite. Whatever Littlefinger says can be a lie. He is the master of lies.

Sansa is a stupid cow, basically. She mellowed a little bit in season 7, but up to season 6 she was naive, quite dumb and easy to be manipulated. And that was what Littlefinger did. He arranged a marriage not for the best of Sansa, but for the best for his personal game of thrones. He did not physically forced her, but he manipulated her into marrying Bolton. Remember the dialogue between Sansa and Littlefinger when they first view Maidengarden on their way North. Sansa stating very clearly, "no, I wont marry Bolton. They killed my family" and Littlefinger manipulating her into agreeing to the marriage. 

Again, you are right, that Sansa was stupid and has to cope with the consequences of her own actions. Had she been smarter and more mature, she would simply have said no, dumped Little Finger and accepted the help of Brienne.

Considering how tough and smart Arya is at two years younger thoughout all seasons, Sansa is meant to be seen as naive and princess-like. Or little Lady Mormont, how tough and courageous she is...there is no excuse for the older Sansa to be stupid.

So, after all: Exonerate Littlefinger? Maybe he really did not know about the sadism. Maybe he did. We simple don't know.

 

I meant in terms of Sansa/Ramsay only because that was THE primary motivator for her contempt for him.  She did not care about Lysa or even LFs role in anything else.... she used it to her advantage until she could not stop blaming him for Ramsey.

Also, the "lies" of LF do not apply to Ramsey.  As I have posted the transcript that proves it.  He had no advantage to lie to or about Ramsey and even went so far as to tell Ramsey "I have grown quite fond of her.... SHE HAS SUFFERED ENOUGH" which contradicts Sansa who blames LF for everything Ramsey did to her.  Finally, he says openly he knows "little of Ramsey which is a rare thing where LORDS are concerned" which also contradicts Sansa who's primary motive for having him murdered is in revenge for everything Ramsey did to her.

On top of that, LF went out of his way to make sure she was as protected as possible, reminding her Stannis was coming and if she just ENDURED SOME HARDSHIP she would be safe soon as Stannis would never harm her.

ALL THIS as opposed to the mewling Sansa supporters who take every opportunity to take up arms for Sansa in all her bad decisions.... and who never even consider the idea she had him murdered based wholly on revenge for Ramsey when he was completely innocent of that mess ENTIRELY.

 

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2 hours ago, CaptainTheo said:

Murdering Lysa. Sandra omits the fact that he saved her life, and her statement here totally contradicts what she said late in season 4 when she said it was suicide. As LF pointed out in his final scene, Lysa would have killed Sansa if he hadn't intervened.

  • Betraying Ned. Yes, this screwed over Ned and the Starks severely, although (1) he did warn him earlier not to trust him, and (2) LF only did this after Ned refused his suggestion to install Joffrey on the throne. A Stannis regime would have been very bad for LF.
  • Jon Arryn's death. Lysa did this, not LF.
  • Arya started the conflict with Sandra, not LF. (She started going off at her before she ever even saw the latter, which she decided off her own bat to steal into LF's room and steal if.) Yet Arya gets off scot-free.
  • True, he was somewhat involved in playing Cat and Lysa against each other, though Lysa seemed pretty crazy anyway and it was her decision to do all this, and Cat's decision to arrest Tyrion. It's debatable whether playing people against each other qualifies as a crime, legally, and certainly does not warrant death.

 

This is properly correct.  Sansa went along and conspired with LF in EVERYTHING she had him murdered for............ until she had the chance to exact revenge on him for everything RAMSEY (which this post proves he was univolved).

She had many opportunities to tell everyone about all the bad shit he did but said nothing UNTIL she could no longer contain her personal hatred for something he was not responsible for in the least.  At Moat Cailin she was held by the hand by LF and explained to her WHY it was a "opportunity" to avenge her family by marrying Ramsey and she could have jumped into the moat or killed herself but she went anyway.  LF held no crossbow to her when she got dressed in her finest linens to say the words to Ramsey.  At every turn LF was protecting her and trying TO protect her.

All the evil mentioned above, Sansa was COMPLICIT in!  She told no one.  She could have stopped all future LF schemes if she told others about his past crimes but she said nothing until she was in complete power as Lady Stark and chose to have him murdered in revenge.

Had Sansa EVER used her own power... had she sliced LFs neck herself instead of sending Arya to do it, I may not have even made this post.  But through and through, Sansa uses the power of OTHERS while making bad decisions..... and then blames those same people when she doesn't like the outcome.  How hard could it be for her to walk down from the high table in front of everyone and taken a knife in her hand (THE STARK WAY AS NED TAUGHT ALL HIS CHILDREN) and killed LF herself.  Ned said the one ordering the death should "swing the sword" him/herself.

Sansa is no true Stark.  The North are only following her false rule in Winterfell because of her name.  A name which she has constantly defiled with all her complicit deceptions, and flitting to whomever she thinks can be used by her to exact power on others on her behalf (no power of her own).

She shunned people at certain times because she saw a better deal with someone else.  Only to "swear a place at her table" to those same people when it benefitted her and she had no one else to USE to further her agenda.  Brienne almost died because Sansa refused her FOR Littlerfinger.  Yet, when Brienne comes to her rescue in a dire house, Sansa is doling out her STARK NAME for assistance when it suited her against the Boltons trying to run her down with Theon in the woods.

I cannot even name all of Sansa's crimes.  But who gives Justice to HER actions?

 

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2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I'm surprised that Littlefinger, if he didn't know about Ramsay, didn't know.

This is the perpetuated ignorance that exonerates Sansa for all her crimes while buying into the horrible plot written by the show writers.  Sansa-Lovers NEED to believe these things so they can continue to like her character and to accept that LFs death was 100% about Sansa exacting revenge on someone who had nothing to do with what she blames him for.

On top of that, she used all the crimes of LF - the ones she was complicit in through silence - as a mask to have him killed when it was really about revenge for Ramsey.

The transcript I included her proves he did not know. 

And for the person who said Sansa was "sold" you are perpetuating the same bullshit.

 

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6 hours ago, CaptainTheo said:

This was sprung on LF out of nowhere, he wasn't given a chance to prepare for it (or demand a trial by combat)

While it's true that he wasn't given a chance to prepare for it (which was a bit odd, even Tyrion who was accused of killing the freaking king wasn't instantly thrown into a trial), I doubt anyone would want to be his champion in a trial by combat.



Irrelevant. Bran is all-seeing, and either you believe what he says (like his sister does, which makes him the ultimate witness) or you don't. Nobody of the other northmen or valemen seem to dispute Brans "testimony", and even if they did, he'd quickly show anyone that he can see anything and everything.

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and most of the accusations against him originated from someone (Bran) who could not possibly have been there

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Aside from the whole deal about the man who passes sentence should swing the sword,


What about it? That was Ned's code of honor, not Sansas. This is not a rule of law in the north, or do you expect Sansa to actually behead someone? That would make for a more gruesome execution than Theons execution of Ser Rodrick.

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Arya went ahead and murdered LF without a word from Sandra (who nonetheless completely endorsed this). This, if I'm not mistaken, also violates Guest Right.


Clearly Sansa had given Arya the "clear to go" sign. Perhaps it was her her dismissive "Thank you, Lord Baelish"?
It's also very possible that they had talked about it beforehand. Either way, Arya acted as executioner in this situation, so it's hardly "murder" (well, technically it is, but executioners tend to not be blamed for killing people.)
 
And no, this did not violate Guest Right, otherwise any killing in any house anywhere in Westeros would violate Guest Right. 

 

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He was the reason they were all sitting in Winterfell. He got their home back. Apparently no good deed goes unpunished.


This I agree on however. Sansa could've given him some slack but she didn't. Apparently she considered his crimes to outweigh his "good deeds" (which he still did mostly to benefit himself), and I'm willing to agree.

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Murdering Lysa. Sandra omits the fact that he saved her life, and her statement here totally contradicts what she said late in season 4 when she said it was suicide. As LF pointed out in his final scene, Lysa would have killed Sansa if he hadn't intervened.


True, but he did still murder the legal ruler of the Vale. One can argue that LF also put Sansa in the position where Lysa wanted to kill her in the first place by kissing her (Sansa) in the courtyard.

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Betraying Ned. Yes, this screwed over Ned and the Starks severely, although (1) he did warn him earlier not to trust him, and (2) LF only did this after Ned refused his suggestion to install Joffrey on the throne. A Stannis regime would have been very bad for LF.


How does that in any way excuse what he did? He still betrayed Ned and more or less caused the War of the Five Kings, which lead to the deaths of Cat and Rob as well.

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Jon Arryn's death. Lysa did this, not LF.

Wrong, they both did it. Lysa poisoned him with the poison LF provided her with.

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Arya started the conflict with Sandra, not LF. (She started going off at her before she ever even saw the latter, which she decided off her own bat to steal into LF's room and steal if.) Yet Arya gets off scot-free.

Did she now?
Arya was spying on LF because she knew he was not to be trusted (remember, she was in the room when LF and Tywin discussed the downfall of the Starks). LF, realizing that Arya spies on him, planted the letter for her to find, and it wasn't until after that that Arya started being hostile towards Sansa.

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True, he was somewhat involved in playing Cat and Lysa against each other, though Lysa seemed pretty crazy anyway and it was her decision to do all this, and Cat's decision to arrest Tyrion. It's debatable whether playing people against each other qualifies as a crime, legally, and certainly does not warrant death.


LF manipulated Lysa into doing things as well, and the only reason Cat arrested Tyrion was because LF told her (lied) that the dagger belonged to Tyrion. When you play people against each other in a way that causes a war which results in the death of thousands, which LF did, it's safe to say that you committed a crime.

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I'm so upset about the finale. LF was my favourite character


I can tell. ;)


Could LF's death have been handled better? Yes, absolutely, it was very rushed and the whole WF-plot was by far the weakest part of Season 8.
Did LF ultimately earn his comeuppance? Yes, he's a villain, as you stated yourself. I liked LF too, but given the amount of shit he's caused since S1, he "deserved" to die, and with only 1 season left (with very little time for intrigue, LF's speciality) I can see why they killed him of at this point in time.

Edited by MinscS2

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"the person who said sold" cackle

You can spin it anyway you but but she was sold. LF didnt marry her off because it was good for her, he did it to advance his plots lol. Just because he talked her into doing it doesnt mean she was any less sold.

The mental gymnastics of your post amaze me.

"OMG SHE HAD OPPORTUNITY TO SUICIDE" seriously?

"LITTLEFINGER WAS TRYING TO PROTECT HER" so he didnt even bother checking who was her future husband (not like it would have been hard, given former-Theon-now-Reek was in Winterfell too)

"SHE DIDNT KILL LITTLEFINGER HERSELF" you missed the point of the scene then

"THE NORTH IS FOLLOWING HER BECAUSE OF HER NAME" the north is following because she earned it, up to the point where they wanted her to take Jon's title

"BRIENNE ALMOST DIED FOR HER" How the fuck she was supposed to know Brienne was an honest person when the last time she saw her was bowing for Joffrey?

Sansa's is our endgame ruler of the North, Littlefinger was a walking toxic wasteland. Deal with it

 

 

Edited by SecretWeapon

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17 minutes ago, SecretWeapon said:

"the person who said sold" cackle

You can spin it anyway you but but she was sold. LF didnt marry her off because it was good for her, he did it to advance his plots lol. Just because he talked her into doing it doesnt mean she was any less sold.

The mental gymnastics of your post amaze me.

"OMG SHE HAD OPPORTUNITY TO SUICIDE" seriously?

"LITTLEFINGER WAS TRYING TO PROTECT HER" so he didnt even bother checking who was her future husband (not like it would have been hard, given former-Theon-now-Reek was in Winterfell too)

"SHE DIDNT KILL LITTLEFINGER HERSELF" you missed the point of the scene then

"THE NORTH IS FOLLOWING HER BECAUSE OF HER NAME" the north is following because she earned it, up to the point where they wanted her to take Jon's title

"BRIENNE ALMOST DIED FOR HER" How the fuck she was supposed to know Brienne was an honest person when the last time she saw her was bowing for Joffrey?

Sansa's is our endgame ruler of the North, Littlefinger was a walking toxic wasteland. Deal with it

 

Sansa did not BELONG to Littlefinger.  They were not in Volantis.  People are not OWNED in Westeros.  So when you say "sold" you are only being a Sansa collaborator.  Looking for any reason to let WEAK WOMEN run amuck while murdering people for crimes they themselves took part in.

Sansa is one of the biggest liars.  And in as much as I hate Cersei, at least Cersei lies and schemes with power and in full knowledge/admittance of what she is doing.  Sansa pretends she has done nothing wrong and still expects the best things in life simply because her name is STARK.

I said NED STARK the patriarch taught a code in Winterfell.  A code that if you pronounce the sentence be prepared to swing the sword.  You say I missed the purpose of the scene, but you should have said I missed the hill of shit the writers dreamed up for a story not in the book. 

- Ned beheaded the Wall abandoner
- Robb carried out the beheading of House Umber for treason
- Jon carried out the beheading of Ser Janos
- Arya kills those she has pronounced
- Catelyn slashed Frey's wife AND grabbed a dagger meant for her son

Sansa sits at the high table with no blood on her hands!  She is no Stark.  Yet, she uses the Stark name for EVERYTHING she is.

How did Sansa earn anything?  Name one time Sansa earned anything.  ONE.  She cried in King's Landing until LF rescued her.  She cried until Shae sent her to her chambers when city under siege.  She cried while Joffrey beat her until Tyrion made it stop.  She cried at the hand of Lysa until LF saved her.  She cried on the way to Winterfell until LF convinced her it was in her best interest to marry Ramsey.  She cried in Winterfell until eunuch Theon helped her escape.  She cried at the Bolton search party until Brienne saved her. 

If Sansa did anything but cry, NAME IT.  I am leaving out so many times Sansa was helpless and begged OTHERS to do things for her.  I am leaving out too many times when Sansa exerted no power of her own, but used the power of others simply because hr name is Stark.

LF deserved to die.  But maybe so does Sansa.  And it was certainly the most idiotic shit for him to die at her command.  She was wholly complicit, and shamed the Stark name by being a powerless woman unworthy of Catelyn Stark and Ned Stark's tradition.

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Gotta agree here. Not sure why Sansa hates him so. He may be an evil little worm, but he's been nothing but good to her. 

- He saved her from Goff (with Olennas help) 

- He saved her from her jealous aunt. 

- He gave her to someone (he thought) was kind despite having feelings for her. 

- He answerd her call and brought vale forces to win the battle. 

This is the one time littlefinger was being a good guy. And she murdered him for it. Yes murder, cause that was not a trial at all. 

And she wasn't sold (from above). She could have declined the marriage. She too thought ramsay was decent so she too was deceived.

We can chalk it all up to her being a foolish little girl, but you prove OP's point. At the end if the day she would be just that. A foolish young girl who murdered her strongest (and very useful) ally. 

Edited by MrJay

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3 hours ago, MrJay said:

Gotta agree here. Not sure why Sansa hates him so. He may be an evil little worm, but he's been nothing but good to her. 

- He saved her from Goff (with Olennas help) 

I don't think he'd done that if her name wasn't Stark.

- He saved her from her jealous aunt. 

And she was jaleous because she saw him kissing her niece.

- He gave her to someone (he thought) was kind despite having feelings for her. 

Sure the bastard son of the man who murder Robb and betray her familily is supposed to be the kindest man in Westeros

- He answerd her call and brought vale forces to win the battle. 

He didn't do that to please her, but because it was his plan from the beginning, taking power in the North with her.

This is the one time littlefinger was being a good guy. And she murdered him for it. Yes murder, cause that was not a trial at all. 

It was not a murder, but I agree not a real trial too. It was an execution with witnesses, like many others in this show : Karstark, NW traitors, Tarly's, wise masters. It's interesting that the only legit trials in GoT were Tyrion's, for crimes he didn't commit.

 

 

Edited by valgrel

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9 hours ago, Iron Mother said:

Also, the "lies" of LF do not apply to Ramsey.  As I have posted the transcript that proves it.  He had no advantage to lie to or about Ramsey and even went so far as to tell Ramsey "I have grown quite fond of her.... SHE HAS SUFFERED ENOUGH" which contradicts Sansa who blames LF for everything Ramsey did to her.  Finally, he says openly he knows "little of Ramsey which is a rare thing where LORDS are concerned" which also contradicts Sansa who's primary motive for having him murdered is in revenge for everything Ramsey did to her.

 

Well, let's take the transcript really as truth and not as one more lie of LF. 

Sansa's emotional motive for executing LF might have been Ramsay. However, LF deserved death penalty for a lot of reasons. And Bran knows exactly about LF's schemig. LF played Arya against Sansa in Winterfell. Little Arya was witness when Tywin and LF plotted against Stark. We know that LF provided the posoin to kill Jon Arryn and Joffrey, that he killed Lysa, that he caused the war of the five kings by intrigues, and that he most probably provided the order and dagger to kill Bran.

Littlefinger was formally executed for crimes he actually did. Sansa might have wanted it for the only crime he did not do: Ramsay. 

9 hours ago, Iron Mother said:

But through and through, Sansa uses the power of OTHERS while making bad decisions.

True. Sansa is naive, stupid and spineless. I don't know whether we are supposed to believe she mellowed and matured in season 7?

6 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

That was Ned's code of honor, not Sansas. This is not a rule of law in the north, or do you expect Sansa to actually behead someone?

Exactly. This is not a law or accepted rule of the North, but Ned code of honor. Easily said for strong man. Using executioners is common and normal in Westeros, though.

6 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

One can argue that LF also put Sansa in the position where Lysa wanted to kill her in the first place by kissing her (Sansa) in the courtyard

One could. But maybe this was accidental. Maybe not. Sure is LF did not want to be married to Lysa and was unhappy about it. So I suppose he was scheming into murdering Lysa and really set this kiss up.

6 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Did LF ultimately earn his comeuppance? Yes, he's a villain, as you stated yourself. I liked LF too, but given the amount of shit he's caused since S1, he "deserved" to die, and with only 1 season left (with very little time for intrigue, LF's speciality) I can see why they killed him of at this point in time.

He deserved death penalty. However, the Ramsay issue was probably not his fault. What a fate -- dozens of crimes and he is executed because of something he did not do.

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12 hours ago, CaptainTheo said:

I'm so upset about the finale. LF was my favourite character being the only decent villain remaining

Well, I liked LF, too. Smart schemes, a good actor, interesting plot line. Of course a person to despise, but an interesting character anyway.

It was always part of the thrill of GOT that any important character can die. That's a pivotal part of the show. Thus, LF dying is fine with me.

Further, I believe his story was really told. All the schemes, he was bound to reach his limits.

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2 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

 

He deserved death penalty. However, the Ramsay issue was probably not his fault. What a fate -- dozens of crimes and he is executed because of something he did not do.

The Ramsay issue isn't one of the charges against him. It's only mentionned when LF said Sansa he always helped and protected her.

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Quote

LF deserved to die for betraying Sansa's parents. 

 

 

Edited by SeanF

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1 hour ago, valgrel said:

The Ramsay issue isn't one of the charges against him. It's only mentionned when LF said Sansa he always helped and protected her.

All the more reason Sansa is a total liar and Despot - executing him for personal reasons while using other reasons publicly.

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