Theory on the Valyrians

[Spilledguts]

I feel like there is something that we are missing from the description of the Valyrians. The Freehold conquered most of Essos, but mainly continued to live in Valyria. They would send a single Dragon Lord to rule a conquered city. Every nation, or ''Peoples'' they conquered were enslaved and their largest city sacked, burned and salted. Their only reasons for conquering seem to be for more slaves, sent to their own mines and also perhaps because they could or just for the plain fun of it. There was no single ruler and instead it was a ''Free Hold''. They do not seem interested in actually ruling in any way, and when the doom happened EVERY nation or city turned against them. 

There is no explanation and no logical reason for Aegon's conquest other than "Because he could". 

All this talk about the gods flipping a coin for madness or greatness for the Targs always rang false with me. It seems they are all born with the same capacity. They only become ''Mad'' or not depending on the councel they receive. When their ears are filled with whispers of treachery, the end result is they believe it and in turn act out against it. Also keep in mind that very few of them actually ruled save for those who were named as Hand of the King. The others were content letting a family outsider rule for them. 

I re-read the Danny only chapters and it seems that certain emotions and thoughts are completely lacking. Is it possible that their entire race is actually lacking the same things? Mainly, a consciense, compassion, lack of empathy and an ability to feel for others in different situations? They seem to be only capable of thinking how certain situations or acts affect themselves. Re-read the early Danny chapters, and realize that she thinks mostly on how slavery affects her and how her own act of being sold is the bedrock for any decision. Her "children" are dying of hunger and selling themselves back into slavery while she sits atop a pyramid eating nice foods and banging a sell-sword, never once thinking about a solution. 

I recently re-read The Riftwar Saga due to lack of good releases in the fantasy genre this year and got this idea from the character of Ashen-Shugar. He comes from a race of Dragonriders that lacked a certain conscience and it led them to actually fighting the Gods, becoming a single entity called "The enemy" and trying to pretty much destroy the world. Only the fact that a human merged consciences with him stopped him from being the same as the rest of his race. 

I think the same could be true of the Valyrians, which is why they never had a single ruler... they were all insane in a way. I think that as a result the Targs are unfit to rule, as shown throughout their history. They are blood of the dragon and are the same as the dragons themselves. They NEED to be controlled because they can not control themselves.

As a result, I think the endgame for them will be far from the Iron Throne. Here are my theories:

1- The others are pushed back beyond the wall as in the first Long Night. The Targs / dragonriders become the new Nightswatch. Sworn to protect all realms of men but never rule them. 

2- The 3 heads of the dragon and the 3 bloodriders are interconnected. The next ruler has Dragonriders as bloodriders. 

3- As per the original outline, they are a threat as big as the Others and need to be destroyed. 

4- 7 Kingdoms ruled by 3 different Dragonriders in a sort of Trinity or a return of the Freehold. 

 

 

 

[Dorian Martell's son]

2 hours ago, Spilledguts said:

I feel like there is something that we are missing from the description of the Valyrians. The Freehold conquered most of Essos, but mainly continued to live in Valyria. They would send a single Dragon Lord to rule a conquered city. Every nation, or ''Peoples'' they conquered were enslaved and their largest city sacked, burned and salted. Their only reasons for conquering seem to be for more slaves, sent to their own mines and also perhaps because they could or just for the plain fun of it. There was no single ruler and instead it was a ''Free Hold''. They do not seem interested in actually ruling in any way, and when the doom happened EVERY nation or city turned against them. 

There is no explanation and no logical reason for Aegon's conquest other than "Because he could". 

All this talk about the gods flipping a coin for madness or greatness for the Targs always rang false with me. It seems they are all born with the same capacity. They only become ''Mad'' or not depending on the councel they receive. When their ears are filled with whispers of treachery, the end result is they believe it and in turn act out against it. Also keep in mind that very few of them actually ruled save for those who were named as Hand of the King. The others were content letting a family outsider rule for them. 

I re-read the Danny only chapters and it seems that certain emotions and thoughts are completely lacking. Is it possible that their entire race is actually lacking the same things? Mainly, a consciense, compassion, lack of empathy and an ability to feel for others in different situations? They seem to be only capable of thinking how certain situations or acts affect themselves. Re-read the early Danny chapters, and realize that she thinks mostly on how slavery affects her and how her own act of being sold is the bedrock for any decision. Her "children" are dying of hunger and selling themselves back into slavery while she sits atop a pyramid eating nice foods and banging a sell-sword, never once thinking about a solution. 

I recently re-read The Riftwar Saga due to lack of good releases in the fantasy genre this year and got this idea from the character of Ashen-Shugar. He comes from a race of Dragonriders that lacked a certain conscience and it led them to actually fighting the Gods, becoming a single entity called "The enemy" and trying to pretty much destroy the world. Only the fact that a human merged consciences with him stopped him from being the same as the rest of his race. 

I think the same could be true of the Valyrians, which is why they never had a single ruler... they were all insane in a way. I think that as a result the Targs are unfit to rule, as shown throughout their history. They are blood of the dragon and are the same as the dragons themselves. They NEED to be controlled because they can not control themselves.

The madness is from all the inbreeding. It mimics the inbreeding of the habsburgs, but GRRM does not include any of the nasty physical stuff because this is a fantasy novel after all and the main female character having blue skin, a misshapen head, no lower jaw and clubbed feet would be far less sexy than dany is in the books 

2 hours ago, Spilledguts said:

1- The others are pushed back beyond the wall as in the first Long Night. The Targs / dragonriders become the new Nightswatch. Sworn to protect all realms of men but never rule them. 

 So you think that Dany will have children or that this prophecy is correct and there will be two other riders? 

2 hours ago, Spilledguts said:

2- The 3 heads of the dragon and the 3 bloodriders are interconnected. The next ruler has Dragonriders as bloodriders. 

So, Dany marries one of her bloodriders and has children? 

2 hours ago, Spilledguts said:

 3- As per the original outline, they are a threat as big as the Others and need to be destroyed. 

They do eat children after all 

2 hours ago, Spilledguts said:

4- 7 Kingdoms ruled by 3 different Dragonriders in a sort of Trinity or a return of the Freehold. 

Interesting. I find this highly unlikely considering the ruling house system of westeros. I can see the 7 kingdoms devolving into self rule again 

[Spilledguts]

1- I never thought that the incest / madness was based off of the Hapsburgs? Else, where are all the deformities such as the hapsburg jaw or the wide tongue? Have the Targs beeng getting dumber and dumber with more and more physical issues as they go? By this definition, Danny should be unable to talk nor walk correctly, look up Charles 2. Also, incest was not the cause of the weird behaviors. Rather, marrying into a family with mental health issues brought them in and they never left. Seems the madness of the Targs has ben around since before the Doom, or else why did no one follow them to Dragonstone? I thought they were just most likely brushed off as crazy...

2- Dragonriders are mentionned and there are three dragons. There will be three dragonriders or Checkhov's gun will be renamed George's Dragons. 

3- What I meant about the bloodriders, is whoever will be king will have whoever is riding the dragons as his protectors. I thought this was the point of introducing three bloodriders and 3 dragonriders...

4- A sort of Dark Ages after the fall of Rome and all goes back to petty kings would make sense, but self rule with the same families being the 7 Kings sounds very much like bad fan fiction. 

 

[elder brother jonothor dar]

Most people conquer because they can

You know the saying power corrupts - no surprise that half of them seem mad, or for the most part just uninhibited.

Look at it in context the world they live in and the power they weild, do we call Tywin mad? How about LF? And those two arnt even top of the tree nor have dragons to back them up should things go south.

So yes good rulers should have good advisors to keep them in check.

Mad King Stannis has Davos and Mad LC Snow had Marsh

[Spilledguts]

I do not understand the outlook people have here on the Targs. Neither of the people you mention were megalomaniacs....

The list of mad monarchs in our own world history is freaking small regardless of inbreeding. The Targs are ALL mad to varying degrees...That is how they are described. Is fan fiction bigger than the text here?

[manchester_babe]

I remember reading in The World Of Fire & Ice. It`s possible they bred with dragons & also used incest. But that was speculation by the maesters. But also that was an easter egg by George himself.