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Weirwood thrones. And who sits on them


Javelin Catcher

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2 minutes ago, Javelin Catcher said:

I have been following the thread on Naggas ribs being weirwood trees, but have a question:  the Arryns were Andals, but sat a weirwood throne. Was the Eyrie built by the first men?  And how does this weirwood throne fit with other legends?

Given that a Weirwood throne was probably carved from a Weirwood that was cut down, isn't it possible that this would have been a symbol of the Andal Arryn conquest of the first men's Veil.

A very litteral taking of the throne... chopping down the Heart tree of the previous rulers, which may have literally housed the ancestors of that family or at least their memories, and making it into a throne for themselves.

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1 hour ago, Javelin Catcher said:

I have been following the thread on Naggas ribs being weirwood trees, but have a question:  the Arryns were Andals, but sat a weirwood throne. Was the Eyrie built by the first men?  And how does this weirwood throne fit with other legends?

Living Weirwoods were associated with the Old Gods and the First Men learned to worship them from the Children of the Forest.  We are all familiar with the weirwood heart trees with their carved faces in the godswoods of the North but weirwood is also valued for its pure white, strong wood that does not rot which is described as construction material in Whitewalls and Harrenhal.  It is used to make furniture such as the meeting table used by the Kingsguard, the bed used by the Lord of Winterfell and the throne you mention at the Eyrie.  It is also used in weaponry to make longbows with great range and for the shafts of spears.  It can also be carved ornately and is described as a broach owned by Ygritte and the mask worn by Morna Whitemask.  It is described along with ebony to make the doors to the House of Black and White, the doors to a room in the House of the Undying and the elaborately carved black and white doors to the Tobho Mott's shop in King's Landing.  I think that the Arryns may have used weirwood to carve their throne simply because it is considered one if the better choices for fine furniture just as ebony is. 

1 hour ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Given that a Weirwood throne was probably carved from a Weirwood that was cut down, isn't it possible that this would have been a symbol of the Andal Arryn conquest of the first men's Veil.

A very litteral taking of the throne... chopping down the Heart tree of the previous rulers, which may have literally housed the ancestors of that family or at least their memories, and making it into a throne for themselves.

Agreed.  There is symbolism in choosing weirwood.

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2 hours ago, Javelin Catcher said:

I have been following the thread on Naggas ribs being weirwood trees, but have a question:  the Arryns were Andals, but sat a weirwood throne. Was the Eyrie built by the first men?  And how does this weirwood throne fit with other legends?

Because if you except the fact that Ser Artys Arryn was the Winged Knight, then it means he wed a Child of the Forest. So it's more than just some trophy of conquest. Its a connection to the Old Gods. 

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3 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Because if you except the fact that Ser Artys Arryn was the Winged Knight, then it means he wed a Child of the Forest. So it's more than just some trophy of conquest. Its a connection to the Old Gods. 

It is hard to accept that Artys Arryn, known as the Falcon Knight, was the Winged Knight when the two lived thousands of years apart.  The Winged Knight was a First Man and it is said that his bride was one of the children of the forest.  He is probably more legend than a real historical figure and he is said to have lived during the Age of Heroes.  Artys Arryn was an Andal and is credited with defeating the last ruler of the Old Men in the Vale. 

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1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Because if you except the fact that Ser Artys Arryn was the Winged Knight, then it means he wed a Child of the Forest. So it's more than just some trophy of conquest. Its a connection to the Old Gods. 

A symbolic connection at best,because we have been told that the soil of the Aerie is too poor and stony  for a weirwood to take root.  And the root is the rub, after all. It is weirwood roots that consume the greenseers.  The roots form the "weirnet".  The roots are the connection.  We hear about weirwood stumps having magic  in them, giving people weirwood dreams and such... and the stump still has the roots.

 

I hear what you're saying but lacking those roots, I have to think it's more of a conquest trophy. 

 That Child of the Forest bride, tho... That's intriguing  Where can I read more about this winged knight connection?

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Reekazoid said:

A symbolic connection at best,because we have been told that the soil of the Aerie is too poor and stony  for a weirwood to take root.  And the root is the rub, after all. It is weirwood roots that consume the greenseers.  The roots form the "weirnet".  The roots are the connection.  We hear about weirwood stumps having magic  in them, giving people weirwood dreams and such... and the stump still has the roots.

 

I hear what you're saying but lacking those roots, I have to think it's more of a conquest trophy. 

 That Child of the Forest bride, tho... That's intriguing  Where can I read more about this winged knight connection?

 

 

Here you go. 

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Artys_Arryn

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Winged_Knight

The Winged Knight is said to have married a woman of the children of the forest who died giving birth to his son.  He is also said to have flown on the back of a giant falcon and slew the Griffin King in the Age of Heroes.  He controlled armies of eagles and befriended merlings and giants many thousands of years ago.  Artyss Arryn was an Andal with great skills of warcraft who conquered the First Men of the Vale thousands of years later. 

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1 hour ago, White Ravens said:

Here you go. 

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Artys_Arryn

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Winged_Knight

The Winged Knight is said to have married a woman of the children of the forest who died giving birth to his son.  He is also said to have flown on the back of a giant falcon and slew the Griffin King in the Age of Heroes.  He controlled armies of eagles and befriended merlings and giants many thousands of years ago.  Artyss Arryn was an Andal with great skills of warcraft who conquered the First Men of the Vale thousands of years later. 

 

3 hours ago, White Ravens said:

It is hard to accept that Artys Arryn, known as the Falcon Knight, was the Winged Knight when the two lived thousands of years apart.  The Winged Knight was a First Man and it is said that his bride was one of the children of the forest.  He is probably more legend than a real historical figure and he is said to have lived during the Age of Heroes.  Artys Arryn was an Andal and is credited with defeating the last ruler of the Old Men in the Vale. 

All your doing is pointing out what the maesters say and apparently take what they say at face value. Never mind that they also say magic doesn't exist, the Others, or CotF. But sure, lets trust them.

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2 hours ago, Reekazoid said:

A symbolic connection at best,because we have been told that the soil of the Aerie is too poor and stony  for a weirwood to take root.  And the root is the rub, after all. It is weirwood roots that consume the greenseers.  The roots form the "weirnet".  The roots are the connection.  We hear about weirwood stumps having magic  in them, giving people weirwood dreams and such... and the stump still has the roots.

 

I hear what you're saying but lacking those roots, I have to think it's more of a conquest trophy. 

 That Child of the Forest bride, tho... That's intriguing  Where can I read more about this winged knight connection?

 

 

Ok, so first of all the problem comes in how people read and understand things. Some people can only understand what's flat out drawn in a straight line for them. Some not so much. These are snippits from my time thread

Quote

 

So the Andal Invasion first begins with the invasion of the fingers by Cowyn Corbray, betraying Jon Brighton and Dywen Shell to become Lord of the Fingers

Next we have King Osgood Shet III being betrayed by Ser Gerold Grafton in Gulltown after helping Osgood to defeat Yorwyck Royce VI of Runestone and grandfather to Robar Royce the II who fought Artys Arryn and King Qyle Corbray of the Fingers. Qyle may have been the son or grandson to Cowyn. 

The Andal Invasion of the fingers likely happening around 2500-2300 years ago at the latest, along with the building of the Wolfs Den with in that time in the North as a response to these invasions. Theon Stark happening likely right before Jon Stark built the Wolf's Den. So lets construct another genealogy tree based on what we're told. 

                           Ser Gerold Graffton/Osgood Shet III        vs            Yorwyck Royce

                                                                                                             (Unknown Royce descendant, son of Yorwyck, father of Robar II)

Qyle Corbray/ Ser Artys Arryn 1st Arryn King.-                        vs                              Robar II Royce of Runestone. 

2nd King- Son of Artys Arryn.

3rd king- Unknown (possible time of Alyssa Arryn and murder of main Arryn House members.)

4th King- Roland I Arryn- Grandson to Artys I. Succeeded by his son. 

5th king- Unknown son of Roland

6th King- Unknown grandson of Roland?

7th King- Roland II- Great Grandson to Roland I. Faced Tristifer Mudd IV of the Riverlands who's possible son Tristifer V Mudd was the last Mudd King killed by the Andal Invaders of the Riverlands in roughly at least 1000 years ago or more. 

*Edit- House Mudd ending with Andal Invasion and Tristifer IV and V being possibly only a few generations apart, combined with the fact the House Justman is ended 300 years later by Qhored Hoare, a Driftwood King at the Height of Ironborn expansion lines up with seeing the Ironborn taking Bear Island around this time (Harrag Hoare vs Theon Stark), attacking the Reach, Arbor, and Old Town all around this time along with Fair Isle in the Westerlands. Which brings me back to Garth VI the Morning Star (- Died in Battle against the Iron Born.) at the top/beginning of this thread. 

So again, we can see that though the dates are never exact, everything still falls under the same rough time windows. 

Now again i mention the fact that Alyssa Arryn is a member of House Arryn and thus cannot be here until Artys Arryn obviously becomes King. Alyssa Arryn is listed as a figure from the Age of Heroes. So going by this, Artys Arryn's invasion of the Vale, is happening during the Age of Heroes. See above for other info at top for dating the Age of Heroes to after the Long Night. 

So that being the case, Ser Artys Arryn the Falcon Knight, and The Winged Knight from legend of the Age of Heroes, can indeed be one and the same guy, if not father and son. 

 

 

 

Quote

 

The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: The Gardener Kings- Maester Yandel

"In those centuries of trial and tumult, the Reach produced many a fearless warrior. From that day to this, the singers have celebrated the deeds of knights like Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, Davos the Dragonslayer, Roland of the Horn, and the Knight Without Armor—and the legendary kings who led them, among them Garth V (Hammer of the Dornish), Gwayne I (the Gallant), Gyles I (the Woe), Gareth II (the Grim), Garth VI (the Morningstar), and Gordan I (Grey-Eyes)."

So first lets begin with the Age of Heroes and something we're told in TWOIAF. Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, Davos Dragon Slayer, Roland of the Horn, and the Knight with out Armor and the kings they served. Garth V, Gwayne I, Gyles I, Gareth II, Garth VI and Gordan I Grey Eyes. So lets construct this from what we have at hand

---------------------------------------------------------------------------Age of Heroes--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Garth the Green

*Garth the Gardener         Maris the Maid=Uthor Hightower       Brandon Bloody Blade           Duran God's Grief

*Garth II                          Urrigon and Peremore (Founding of Citidel)   Bran the Builder (Builds the Wall)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Long Night-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Garth III

*Garth IV the Hammer of the Dornish   Sacked Old Town selling 3/4 popl. into slavery but failed to breach the Hightower      Ser Serwyn of the Mirror Shield- Kills dragon Urrax and saves Daeryssa from giants, Kings Guard member

*Gwayne I the Gallant

*Gyles I the Woe       - Ser Davos the Dragon Slayer-   killed a dragon

*Gareth I                       Erich V Harlaw

*Gareth II  the Grim   Killed by Harron Harlaw beneath walls of Old Town. Harron son of Erich V who retook fair Isle only to lose it again.   - Ser Roland of the Horn

*The World of Ice and Fire - The Iron Islands: Driftwood Crowns His son Harron slew Gareth the Grim of Highgarden beneath the walls of Oldtown. Half a century later, Joron I Blacktyde captured Gyles II Gardener when their fleets clashed off the Misty Islands

*Garth VI the Morning Star- Died in Battle against the Iron Born. (Important later as shows Iron Born expansion during peak under Driftwood Kings)

*Gordan I Grey Eyes      -   The knight with out Armor

_____________________________________End of Age of Heroes with Andal Invasion?__________________________________________________________________________

So im gonna stop here for now and simply point out that clearly we have dragons and knights being mentioned in Westeros after the Long Night. Especially important is the fact that these legendary heroes and figures pop up after the Long Night. 

 

 

 

This too, is all ripped straight from the text. 

So as we can see by the Gardener kings, the Age of Heroes lasted long after the Long Night. 

The Andal Invasion brought the end to the Age of Heroes. 

The Arryns were part of the early Andal Invasions, during the tail end of the Age of Heroes.

So yes, Artys Arryn can indeed be the Winged Knight. Which would explain why there is a weirwood throne far more than some trophy, given he wed a COTF.  

The Iron born are at the height of their expansion in the west while the Andal invasion begins in the East, with Theon Stark being an anchor point through events surrounding him. The Early Andal Invasion. To which the Wolf's Den is built in response to, to which the Arryns and Starks quickly war over the Three Sisters, fighting over it for 1000 years. In the end of that 1000 years, the Andals finally arrive in the Iron Islands and put and end to The Driftwood Kings. 

The Maesters also dont link the Grey King as the First King even though the text clearly states this, if you can connect dots. 

Exp. Garth is the First King? Yet Garth predates the First men in westeros. So to does House Hightower. Also we have a mysterious island race of the Iron Born sitting on Islands during a time that the first men didn't sail. Plus the Grey King's legend about him building a weirwood boat and sailing with his warriors and landing in Westeros. Then suddenly you realize that the Grey King was indeed the First King of the true First Men. 

 

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1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

 

All your doing is pointing out what the maesters say and apparently take what they say at face value. Never mind that they also say magic doesn't exist, the Others, or CotF. But sure, lets trust them.

Is that what I'm doing?  What you are doing is acting as though we are all involved in a suspension of disbelief contest where the winner accepts every fanciful detail in the stories as a hard fact.  The Winged Knight and the Falcon Knight lived many thousands of years apart but they were actually the same guy.  Sure, let's go with that. 

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25 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

Is that what I'm doing?  What you are doing is acting as though we are all involved in a suspension of disbelief contest where the winner accepts every fanciful detail in the stories as a hard fact.  The Winged Knight and the Falcon Knight lived many thousands of years apart but they were actually the same guy.  Sure, let's go with that. 

Long as the prize is a cookie.

What dates are you using to pin down this ever so definite fact? Or are you just going on the Maesters word? Since this is after all, your retort to my original post to the OP. Seemingly backed by little more than what you read and put no further thought into. Maesters say this, so never mind what the actual events say. Never mind the facts ive already pointed out about the Andals arriving during the Age of Heroes as backed up by all those facts ripped from the books listed above. These aren't abstract ideas trying to link mythology to real world myths. This is simply taking what GRRM and Elio and Linda wrote into the books, and lining them up. The Maesters can't even agree on when the Andals arrived yet you seem so certain their claim is true. I could go on but really its enough, the OP was looking for ideas out of the box and i provided one, and backed it with enough info to let them ponder on their own. :) 

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17 hours ago, White Ravens said:

Is that what I'm doing?  What you are doing is acting as though we are all involved in a suspension of disbelief contest where the winner accepts every fanciful detail in the stories as a hard fact.  The Winged Knight and the Falcon Knight lived many thousands of years apart but they were actually the same guy.  Sure, let's go with that. 

 

 

Quote

A Feast for Crows - Alayne II

"It is too dark in here for reading." The heavy curtains drawn across the windows made the bedchamber black as night. "Has my Sweetrobin forgotten what day this is?"
"No," he said, "but I'm not going. I want to stay in bed. You could read to me about the Winged Knight."
The Winged Knight was Ser Artys Arryn. Legend said that he had driven the First Men from the Vale and flown to the top of the Giant's Lance on a huge falcon to slay the Griffin King. There were a hundred tales of his adventures. Little Robert knew them all so well he could have recited them from memory, but he liked to have them read to him all the same. "Sweetling, we have to go," she told the boy, "but I promise, I'll read you two tales of the Winged Knight when we reach the Gates of the Moon."

 

 

 

So aside from a couple mentions where Robin wants to here about the Winged Knight, the only thing stated about the Winged Knight in the main books is that he is Artys Arryn. Its not till the recent TWOIAF that we even get any counter to this. 

 

Spoiler


Quote

The Winds of Winter - Alayne I

It had fallen out just as Petyr said it would, the day the ravens flew. "They're young, eager, hungry for adventure and renown. Lysa would not let them go to war. This is the next best thing. A chance to serve their lord and prove their prowess. They will come. Even Harry the Heir." He had smoothed her hair and kissed her forehead. "What a clever daughter you are."
It was clever. The tourney, the prizes, the winged knights, it had all been her own notion. Lord Robert's mother had filled him full of fears, but he always took courage from the tales she read him of Ser Artys Arryn, the Winged Knight of legend, founder of his line. Why not surround him with Winged Knights? She had thought one night, after Sweetrobin had finally drifted off to sleep. His own Kingsguard, to keep him safe and make him brave. And no sooner did she tell Petyr her idea than he went out and made it happen. He will want to be there to greet Ser Harrold. Where could he have gone?


 

 
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8 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

 

 

So aside from a couple mentions where Robin wants to here about the Winged Knight, the only thing stated about the Winged Knight in the main books is that he is Artys Arryn. Its not till the recent TWOIAF that we even get any counter to this. 

 

 

Your quote from the Alayne chapter in Winds of Winter should be in spoiler tags. 

The fact that the information in TWOIAF was published after the main existing books doesn't mean that it carries less weight. 

Quote

The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Arrival of the Andals

Sweeping through the Vale with fire and sword, the Andals began their conquest of Westeros. Their iron weapons and armor surpassed the bronze with which the First Men still fought, and many First Men perished in this war. It was a war—or a series of many wars—which likely lasted for decades. Eventually some of the First Men submitted, and, as I noted earlier, there are still houses in the Vale who proudly proclaim their descent from the First Men, such as the Redforts and the Royces.
 
The singers say that the Andal hero Ser Artys Arryn rode upon a falcon to slay the Griffon King upon the Giant's Lance, thereby founding the kingly line of House Arryn. This is foolishness, however, a corruption of the true history of the Arryns with legends out of the Age of Heroes. Instead, the Arryn kings supplanted the High Kings of House Royce.

 

Quote

The World of Ice and Fire - The Vale: House Arryn

There is abundant historical evidence for the existence of Ser Artys Arryn, the Falcon Knight, the first Arryn king to rule over Mountain and Vale. His victory over King Robar II at the Battle of the Seven Stars is well attested to, even though the details of that victory might have been somewhat embroidered in the centuries that followed. King Artys was undoubtedly a real man, albeit an extraordinary one.
 
In the Vale, however, the deeds of this real historical personage have become utterly confused with those of his legendary namesake, another Artys Arryn, who lived many thousands of years earlier during the Age of Heroes, and is remembered in song and story as the Winged Knight.

The first Ser Artys Arryn supposedly rode upon a huge falcon (possibly a distorted memory of dragonriders seen from afar, Archmaester Perestan suggests). Armies of eagles fought at his command. To win the Vale, he flew to the top of the Giant's Lance and slew the Griffin King. He counted giants and merlings amongst his friends, and wed a woman of the children of the forest, though she died giving birth to his son.

A hundred other tales are told of him, most of them just as fanciful. It is highly unlikely that such a man ever existed; like Lann the Clever in the westerlands, and Brandon the Builder in the North, the Winged Knight is made of legend, not of flesh and blood. If such a hero ever walked the Mountains and Vale, far back in the dim mists of the Dawn Age, his name was certainly not Artys Arryn, for the Arryns came from pure Andal stock, and this Winged Knight lived and flew and fought many thousands of years before the first Andals came to Westeros.
 
Like as not, it was the singers of the Vale who conflated these two figures, attributing the deeds of the legendary Winged Knight to the historic Falcon Knight, perhaps in order to curry favor with the real Artys Arryn's successors by placing this great hero of the First Men amongst their forebears.

It is clear that Sweetrobin and Sansa like many people believe that the Falcon Knight, Artys I Arryn, and the Winged Knight of legend were the same guy.  I can see that happening since both heroes lived in the Vale and both are associated with birds and flight.  But Artys got that association from wearing a winged helmet and his history can be traced in the books and libraries that have been written since the Andals brought literacy and the written word to Westeros while the Winged Knight is a legendary hero from more ancient times.  Similar things have happened in RL when long dynasties claim that their founders possessed supernatural or even godlike qualities. 

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6 hours ago, White Ravens said:

Your quote from the Alayne chapter in Winds of Winter should be in spoiler tags. 

The fact that the information in TWOIAF was published after the main existing books doesn't mean that it carries less weight. 

 

It is clear that Sweetrobin and Sansa like many people believe that the Falcon Knight, Artys I Arryn, and the Winged Knight of legend were the same guy.  I can see that happening since both heroes lived in the Vale and both are associated with birds and flight.  But Artys got that association from wearing a winged helmet and his history can be traced in the books and libraries that have been written since the Andals brought literacy and the written word to Westeros while the Winged Knight is a legendary hero from more ancient times.  Similar things have happened in RL when long dynasties claim that their founders possessed supernatural or even godlike qualities. 

Pretty sure that chapter has been out for months but either way it doesn't spoil anything really.

And sure it does, it means that for 6 or something years, that this is all he wanted people to know. Only adding confusion later. Through the Maesters no less, who can't make ass from elbows half the time. Was the Bracken/Blackwood tree poisoning 1000 years ago or 500. Andal Invasion, 6k, 4k or 2k years ago. Alyssa Arryn 4k or 2k years ago. The Long night was 12k, 10k or 8k or something. Did the Andals carve axes and stars or hammers and stars. Did the COTF leave when the Andals came, or before the Andals came. Was the ancient sea faring race that existed before the Valyrians, the Valyrians? Sure why not! The Maesters are just sooooooooo smart. Were the Iron Islanders among the first men who crossed the Arm of Dorne even though they didn't sail? Sure!!! Why not???? Who built all these round towered constructions? Must be the Andal!! 

First men didn't have writting???? Sure!!!! Why not!!!! Sounds good!!! Never mind that runes are a written language and can be hand written or carved!!!! We'll just ignore that fact, because hey, the Maesters say so. 

The Maesters, who had runes for writing, who have been around since Uthor of the Hightowers' son's since around the time of Garth the Green and the Age of Heroes, but sure, the Maesters dont know anything beyond what those Andal Septons recorded for them 'thousands' of years after the fact. Never mind the fact that the above passages show that the Age of Heroes lasted long after the Long Night and that the Andals invaded during the peak of Iron born expansion in the West while Theon Stark is the pivot point needed to anchor these events. 

Never mind that despite the Maesters claim, the history of event's actually show us that the two men can indeed be the same guy. 

But sure, go with the Maesters answer. 

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To keep this going on and kind of drag this further with implications.

The Winged Knight's Legend states that he killed the Griffin King, last of the Mountain Kings right?

Well The Falcon Knight killed Robar Royce II who was the High King of the Vale, Fingers, and MOUNTAINS OF THE MOON. He was the last of the Mountain Kings.

The only real difference between these legends is the inclusion of magic. CotF, Merlings, and Giants. Not to mention giant eagles and Griffins, which sounds like a bunch of dragons.

Dragons.

Now look at what i posted about the Gardener Kings. Davos the Dragon Slayer and Serwyn of the Mirror Shield exist after the Long Night and their legends also include Dragons.

Dragons are also mentioned to have roosted upon Battle Isle till the First Hightowers put an end to them. 

Plus, House Royce, first noble House we are introduced to. Who have intermarried with the Starks. Who are the only people to have Gargoryle crenelations just like Dragon Stone. 

Plus the Others seem to check Royce out and check his sword. After realizing its just a normal sword, they proceed to murder him. Almost as though they're searching for Azor Ahai. What would they have done if it was him?

The Maesters seem to be hiding the fact that some one in westeros had dragons long before the Targaryens. 

Cannibal dates back before the Targaryens also. 

So why would Artys then possibly be marrying CotF and have some pact with them?? Why are there knights killing dragons?? 

What could the maesters and or the septons be hiding? The Maesters and Septons who are also accused of killing the Targaryen dragons. Idk, maybe killing dragons then too? Just a thought. 

Everything the Maesters tell us sound logical on it's own, untill you start piecing together everything else. 
 

Artys Arryn, an Andal making a pact with a CotF seems odd. Given the other COTF aligning with the first men at High Heart, and the Weirwood Alliance in the Strom Lands, against the Andal Invaders.

Could it be possible their are CotF not working together?? Mean time Robar's alliance included a sorceress, Ursula Upcliff. What kind of sorceress? A red priestess kind? 

Just some hopeful food for thought.

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21 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Ok, so first of all the problem comes in how people read and understand things. Some people can only understand what's flat out drawn in a straight line for them. Some not so much. These are snippits from my time thread

 

 

 

 

This too, is all ripped straight from the text. 

So as we can see by the Gardener kings, the Age of Heroes lasted long after the Long Night. 

The Andal Invasion brought the end to the Age of Heroes. 

The Arryns were part of the early Andal Invasions, during the tail end of the Age of Heroes.

So yes, Artys Arryn can indeed be the Winged Knight. Which would explain why there is a weirwood throne far more than some trophy, given he wed a COTF.  

The Iron born are at the height of their expansion in the west while the Andal invasion begins in the East, with Theon Stark being an anchor point through events surrounding him. The Early Andal Invasion. To which the Wolf's Den is built in response to, to which the Arryns and Starks quickly war over the Three Sisters, fighting over it for 1000 years. In the end of that 1000 years, the Andals finally arrive in the Iron Islands and put and end to The Driftwood Kings. 

The Maesters also dont link the Grey King as the First King even though the text clearly states this, if you can connect dots. 

Exp. Garth is the First King? Yet Garth predates the First men in westeros. So to does House Hightower. Also we have a mysterious island race of the Iron Born sitting on Islands during a time that the first men didn't sail. Plus the Grey King's legend about him building a weirwood boat and sailing with his warriors and landing in Westeros. Then suddenly you realize that the Grey King was indeed the First King of the true First Men. 

 

All of this took me a while to read through, and I have to say, it is a very compelling argument.  I'd be willing to accept  the conflation of the Winged Knight and Artys Aryn with no further argument.  This same thing happens in literature and history in our own world too.

 

Kudos to the research, brother, I am impressed.  What I am not, however, is convinced that a weirwood throne hacked from a grove somewhere and carried to the Aerie constitutes a literal connection to the old gods.

 It's all about the roots! Ware the roots!

 the roooots..

 

 

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On 10/9/2017 at 5:33 PM, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Given that a Weirwood throne was probably carved from a Weirwood that was cut down, isn't it possible that this would have been a symbol of the Andal Arryn conquest of the first men's Veil.

A very litteral taking of the throne... chopping down the Heart tree of the previous rulers, which may have literally housed the ancestors of that family or at least their memories, and making it into a throne for themselves.

I don't think so, but that's a very creative, and viable, suggestion. 

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23 hours ago, White Ravens said:

Here you go. 

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Artys_Arryn

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Winged_Knight

The Winged Knight is said to have married a woman of the children of the forest who died giving birth to his son.  He is also said to have flown on the back of a giant falcon and slew the Griffin King in the Age of Heroes.  He controlled armies of eagles and befriended merlings and giants many thousands of years ago.  Artyss Arryn was an Andal with great skills of warcraft who conquered the First Men of the Vale thousands of years later. 

 This is awesome, thank you.  And it's yet another example of a hero legend repeating themes we see going back to Bloodstone Emperor, who I believe took a tiger woman to wife? Surely that would suggest a stripey, feline type of lady, like a CoTF.  

 

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Oh, and to talk more about your OP question.

You mention Nagga which brings the obvious, The Grey King sits upon a Weirwood throne. Now this tree is dead and i dont know for sure if this effects anything or not honestly. I cant say for sure the power is just limited to the roots though.

Especially as i have hypothesized that Valyrian Steel and Dawn are made with the Weirwood trees and the Black Barked Blue leafed trees found in Essos to infuse the Iron with Carbon to make a magical steel that drinks in blood just like the trees. I can provide quotes if youd like.

Next you have Garth Gardener who sits upon an Oaken Throne. Now this is interesting but we must also consider that an Oak tree is the Heart Tree at K.L. and that BR tells Bran that he'll be able to see through any tree with time, and that Weirwood trees are just the easiest and thus the first you learn.

Next we have Bloodraven who sits upon a weirwood throne along with the CotF deeper in the caves that are hidden from Bran and that he has to find out about by sneeking around. Plus their is the throne prepared for Bran.

Next we have Beric Dondarion who sits upon a weirwood throne in a cave in the Riverlands. Beric who seemingly has more to do with the Red God rather than the Old Gods, and yet, here he sits in contradiction to what we know. 

Now i have pointed out about the Grey Kings legend else where that essentially, we have Dragons (sea dragons) and Magical Fire (Nagga's Living Fire) born of the Trees (Ygg). Uniting these two sides.

Then lastly, we have Artys Arryn sitting upon one.

What does this all mean though? Harder to figure out, but i get the impression the CotF have been playing both sides.

 

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9 minutes ago, Reekazoid said:

All of this took me a while to read through, and I have to say, it is a very compelling argument.  I'd be willing to accept  the conflation of the Winged Knight and Artys Aryn with no further argument.  This same thing happens in literature and history in our own world too.

 

Kudos to the research, brother, I am impressed.  What I am not, however, is convinced that a weirwood throne hacked from a grove somewhere and carried to the Aerie constitutes a literal connection to the old gods.

 It's all about the roots! Ware the roots!

 the roooots..

 

 

I hear what your saying and i tried touching upon this in a comment above about Dragon Steel being made from the Weirwood trees. The magic is in the trees, no matter alive or dead. Weirwood petrifies to stone also, meaning all this black magical stone we see, could just be the black trees petrified. Given an asteroid wouldnt leave enough material to build two giant cities.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/148774-dawn-valyrian-steel-the-black-white-trees/

All the power seems to derive from the trees. Look at the what im saying about the Grey King's legend too. Dragons and Magical fire born of the Trees.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/148826-the-grey-king-ygg-and-naggas-living-fire/

 

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