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aeverett

What If Cersei and Jaime Had Different Fathers?

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Several people have looked at the idea that Tyrion might be a secret Targ, based on the idea that Johanna Lannister was raped by Aerys.  I've also seen videos theorizing that both Cersei and Jaime are the secret Targs for the same reason, but I've recently read about a situation where twins were born from two separate fathers.  Supposedly it's called heteropaternal superfecundation, and though its very rare in humans, it can happen.    How would this impact things, or would it?  Which twin would belong to Tywin and which to Aerys, and how would the truth be revealed in a drama that has no DNA testing technology?

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Considering that Jaime and Cersei look extremely alike, its highly improbable that they different fathers.

Also, I believe all the Lannister children are Tywin's.

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Honestly I think this is possible. 

For example, if Aerys and Joanna had sex the night before her wedding, then Joanna and Tywin had sex next night, there is a possibility that Jaime and Cersei can have different fathers. 

I know they look like each other, but how about both of them look like their mother Joanna? 

This could explain their resemblance. 

In this case, I would say Cersei is daughter of Aerys. Her love in wild fire certainly is similar to Aerys's.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

Considering that Jaime and Cersei look extremely alike, its highly improbable that they different fathers.

Also, I believe all the Lannister children are Tywin's.

On that note, I think that Tyrion's dark hair mixed with blond comes from his Marbrand grandmother. Jeyne Marbrand is depicted as having dark hair.

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2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

On that note, I think that Tyrion's dark hair mixed with blond comes from his Marbrand grandmother. Jeyne Marbrand is depicted as having dark hair.

Interesting. Could you tell me where was Jeyne Marbrand's appearance described? I don't remember reading it.

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5 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

Interesting. Could you tell me where was Jeyne Marbrand's appearance described? I don't remember reading it.

It's a picture from The World of Ice and Fire. 

As shown here.

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25 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

It's a picture from The World of Ice and Fire. 

As shown here.

I see. I looked up Addam Marbrand's appearance and he is described to have dark hair too. Interesting.

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20 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

Also, I believe all the Lannister children are Tywin's.

Most likely it is so. I shouldn’t probably mention here that Joanna was called by Aerys to King’s Landing in 272 and Tyrion was born in 273 since it wasn’t in the show, but if you’re right (and I think you are), doesn’t that scene with Tyrion and the dragons, alone in the dark, seem like a pointless waste of film?

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I agree that the idea of Jaime and Cersei having different fathers is extremely unlikely. And even if it were true, I can't think it would affect much.

The idea of Tyrion having a different father makes a certain amount of sense, given his physical description in the books (he isn't even fully blond). And given how much Tywin hated him... not just despised him, but hated him. And it turns out dwarfism is a highly dominant genetic trait, which makes it highly unlikely, if not impossible, for a dwarf to be born of two non-dwarf parents. But honestly, I think either GRRM doesn't know/care about that, or just as likely, Tyrion in the books isn't a typical dwarf (he isn't really described as one).

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Jaime is Tywin's son, and Cersei is daughter of Tywin and Aerys, both of them. She's a child from two fathers, like Antichrist from book series Left Behind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rising_(LaHaye_novel)

Thus she inherited her cleverness from Tywin, and her madness from Aerys.

 

Though I don't really think that either of Lannisters, are not Tywin's children, including Tyrion. All three are his.

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2 hours ago, Katerine459 said:

 And it turns out dwarfism is a highly dominant genetic trait, which makes it highly unlikely, if not impossible, for a dwarf to be born of two non-dwarf parents. But honestly, I think either GRRM doesn't know/care about that, or just as likely, Tyrion in the books isn't a typical dwarf (he isn't really described as one).

Actually, the majority of people with dominant dwarfism are born to non-dwarf parents because of random mutation. Also, I think that Tyrion’s described characteristics are highly suggestive of achondroplasia, the most common form of dwarfism. (Explanation here: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/137929-dwarfism-a-targaryen-trait/&do=findComment&comment=8039065 )

 

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4 hours ago, Katerine459 said:

And it turns out dwarfism is a highly dominant genetic trait, which makes it highly unlikely, if not impossible, for a dwarf to be born of two non-dwarf parents.

Besides the fact that (as 4 Eyed Crow explained) this isn't true in the first place, how would it be relevant? Aerys wasn't a dwarf any more than Tywin was.

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I wasn't thinking of Aerys specifically, just what I thought I knew about genetics, and what that implies about Tyrion's bastardy. Turns out I was wrong about that.

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On 10/11/2017 at 3:47 PM, Katerine459 said:

I wasn't thinking of Aerys specifically, just what I thought I knew about genetics, and what that implies about Tyrion's bastardy. Turns out I was wrong about that.

You were thinking Joanna must have slept with a dwarf?

I can actually almost see that. If she were cheating on him out of anger rather than temptation, given the way Tywin thinks, a dwarf would probably be a better way to get back at him than a handsome cousin or vassal or something. (Although still, hard to beat sleeping with his best friend and boss who he's already expressed jealousy over…)

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Cersei said she could change her clothes with Jaime when they were young. And no one or so would notice it. So, it seems unlikely they have different fathers. And what would be the purpose of such unlikely thing? In show, I don't think anything suggests any of Tywin's children are not his. But the books are different IMO. The valonqar means Jaime. He is her only true brother. And the use of the valyrian word designates their father.

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On 10/11/2017 at 0:03 PM, hewman said:

Most likely it is so. I shouldn’t probably mention here that Joanna was called by Aerys to King’s Landing in 272 and Tyrion was born in 273 since it wasn’t in the show, but if you’re right (and I think you are), doesn’t that scene with Tyrion and the dragons, alone in the dark, seem like a pointless waste of film?

I think that scene was there just to free the dragons. In the books, its Quentyn who sets them free, but was cut from the show. Also, towards the end Tyrion admits it was an extremely stupid thing to do.

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On 10/11/2017 at 3:41 PM, Megorova said:

Jaime is Tywin's son, and Cersei is daughter of Tywin and Aerys, both of them. She's a child from two fathers

Wait, what?

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On 10/14/2017 at 0:12 AM, Apoplexy said:

I think that scene was there just to free the dragons. In the books, its Quentyn who sets them free, but was cut from the show. Also, towards the end Tyrion admits it was an extremely stupid thing to do.

I think it was there to create ambiguity.  Tyrion gives this big speech in the prior scene about dragon nature and how they know their friends from their enemies, which allows the writer to set up the scene where Tyrion frees the dragons.  However, fans have been speculating on Tyrion's paternity forever, so the writers were tweaking that debate, giving us no answer one way or the other.  The dragons might have smelled Targ lineage or they merely sensed that Tyrion had good intentions towards them.  Tweak. 

Edited by aeverett

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While scientifically it can happen in extreme rarity, I doubt it. Book wise, The Mad King is a possibility but on the show, I do not think the showrunners will even bother with it.

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1 hour ago, aeverett said:

I think it was there to create ambiguity.  Tyrion gives this big speech in the prior scene about dragon nature and how they know their friends from their enemies, which allows the writer to set up the scene where Tyrion frees the dragons.  However, fans have been speculating on Tyrion's paternity forever, so the writers were tweaking that debate, giving us no answer one way or the other.  The dragons might have smelled Targ lineage or they merely sensed that Tyrion had good intentions towards them.  Tweak. 

Yes, it is possible that the show wanted to create ambiguity. But I doubt too many show only fans speculate over Tyrion's paternity. He doesn't have the mismatched eyes or the dark streaks in his hair in the show. And the show hasn't mentioned Aery's partiality towards Joanna. Having Tyrion and the dragons together made for a good visual, which is what I think the show runners were going for.

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