Noble House Scenario - Stormlands

[James Steller]

Imagine you're the head of a Noble House in the Stormlands (assume that it's been around for as long as the others). Your father and elder brothers were killed in battle with raiders from the Reach, leaving you as the sole living male to carry your family name. The only other members of your family are your eldest brother's widow, Briony, her 5-year old daughter, Saren, your 13-year old sister, Falia, and your beloved 16-year old cousin, Bryce, a squire serving Lord Lothor Tarth on his island.

King Morden III Durrandon is old and has no natural sons, so he is holding a tourney outside of Storm's End, for all the second and third sons of his nobility to earn the Durrandon name and wed his daughter, Alynne Durrandon.

You were dreaming of this opportunity, having loved Princess Alynne from afar since you were a boy, but now with the deaths of your father and brothers, your new elevation to Lord of your House has ironically prevented you from competing for what you seek.

Nevertheless, you have brought your family to the tourney, despite the turmoil of the last few months. Briony harbours a bitter grudge, believing that her daughter should have inherited instead of you. She has hinted that you should renounce your lordship and let her daughter inherit your castle and lordship (Briony knows of your long infatuation with Lady Durrandon, and you know she uses it for her own purposes, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have a point).

Despite this, Saren is the subject of several propositions. Lord Lyle Swann has offered to betrothe her to his infant son and heir, while also suggesting you could wed his 13-year old daughter, Cassandra, when she comes of age (these two offers can either be accepted or rejected together: no choosing just one). Meanwhile, Lord Estermont offers to betrothe Saren to his own son and heir, pointing out that a marcher lord's keep is in constant danger from the Dornish (given that Lord Swann has had two sons die in Dornish raids already).

In the meantime, Falia is also receiving attention from the Stormlords. Lord Justin Dondarrion suggests to you that Falia could wed his 15-year old son when she comes of age, but while Lord Dondarrion is an honourable man, his lands are frequently raided by Dornishmen, which means Falia's life would never quite be free from danger. Lady Brysha Connington, ruler of a very wealthy house, offers her own son to wed Falia when they are both of age. The problem is that the Connington heir is a child of eight, and is also blind in one eye. Finally, Lord Steffon Errol offers to wed Falia to his second son, who is a young squire to a knight who is in King Morden's household.

The last proposition is the darkest in nature. King Morden's bastard son, Reynol Storm, has come to you quietly in the night with a plot to depose his father and take the throne as his son. He claims to have Lords Cafferin, Grandison, Penrose, Toyne, and Tarth on his side, and they have brought many of their bannermen to the tourney to assist Reynol in his coup. Your task will be to arrange the murders of Lords Caron and Swann, the two lords most loyal to King Morden. When the takeover is complete, Reynol assures you, he will wed Falia to Lord Toyne (as he has already sworn to marry Lord Grandison's daughter), and you will have Lady Alynne Durrandon as your bride. Fail them, or give them up, then Lord Tarth will hear word of it and, regardless of what happens to him or Reynol, he will first take a brutal revenge against your cousin, whom you have loved like a little brother.

What do you do?

Note to administrators: This is purely a hypothetical scenario, not a game. It's meant to illicit thought and discussion rather than awarding a win or loss.

[Corvo the Crow]

A daughter comes before an uncle. I have usurped my niece's place so while it is safe for me since she is just a 5 year old girl, I am at a risk when she grows.

First, but optional:  I'll try to convince my sister-in-law to have a bastard by me. My family is on the brink of dying out so a bastard could prove very useful whether it's a boy or girl. If it's a boy it is even more better for my sister-in-law, she'll have a son with a claim to my family lordship. I may very well end up dead anyway, so is my cousin so he will be the only male relative even though he's a bastard so he may rule for his sister or mine, not in name but in effect.

 Falia betrothes to Dondarrion's son, so my sweet sister gets a fine husband and I get a stout ally.

I'll try to convince the Conningtons for a Saren betrothal since she is both closer in age to the heir and is younger than him, which is very important in a feudal society in a medieval age and she is also higher in line of succession so it is better for them also. I now have a second ally.

Slip word of the betrayal plot to lords Caron and Swann, Swann also gets a marriage proposal. If my cousin survives he and my firstborn daughter will replace me and Saren in the proposal. While I am not sure whether if Conningtons and Dondarrions are in the plot or not (bastards are trickery, he may be lying), I am fairly certain they are getting a better deal out of me than they will ever be with the bastard of Storm's End.

Agreeing on a plan without meeting because of the risks, we make our move on the conspirators in the dead of the night the bastard, these lords and their bannerman are quickly captured along with the bastard, while also making sure no one sends Raven messages so it will be many days before Lord Tarth or any other castle gets any messages.

After conspirators are taken down I quickly gather a force with the help of my new allies and the grateful king, set sail on Tarth with word of my coming sent ahead of me by Raven message. Bend the knee it says.Surrender yourself and deliver Bryce safely and unlike other conspirators you will be allowed to take the black, your lands will be untouched, your line will be allowed to continue. Fail and your house will be destroyed, your sons and even cousins killed, your daughters and other female relatives will be allowed to live but will be disinherited, being forced to marry lowly knights at best if they'll take them or commoners if they won't or maybe even sell themselves at brothels.

Bannermen of the Tarth, especially those who I hold members of, also gets a message Give up arms and aid the crown should lord Tarth prefers to go out fighting, and your relatives will be returned unharmed, fail and you will lose your lands and the relatives their heads.

 

In the end I am hoping the king will be grateful and marry her daughter to me. If my cousin survives he will take over the family lands since Briony is already married to an heir and she is 5 years old. If I get a bastard, he/she will be fostered at my ancestral home and if my wife is angry about it, well it was before my marriage anyway so how could I have known I'd marry her?

 

Conspirators are killed (except Tarth and his bannermen, if they prove true to their word), their lands granted to relatives they share with my allies, their own distant cousins or even relatives from smaller houses who may or may not take on the name depending on their choice, in this order preferrably.

[Equilibrium]

Raynol is a bit thick in his head, it seems the whole bastard inferiority thing is true. He offers me hand of Alynne, who I just helped him usurp, yeah that will make for interesting marital conversations "Remember dear when we deposed your dad and stole your throne, fun times" And he even has a gut to threaten me, him, a bastard. We won't dance that way. 

It seems Swann has some opinion of me given that he wants go give me his daughter, so I go to him, say everything. And than the games begin...

I advise the Swann and Caron to summon whole armies and to hide in nearby. Depending on time and resources I fake their deaths or make up plausible reason why they left all of the sudden. Faking deaths is preferable since it leaves their retainers under my command while they await reinforcements. I prepare forces under my command for surprise counteraction

Than I join Raynol but instead of quietly going along I try to incite as much chaos possible and make a mess of the whole thing, within reasonable margin of course. When critical phase of the plan begins, I strike, kill Raynol, turn on their forces and try to make a general bloodbath. If there is any noble whose lands would make a good addition to mine, I kill him in the chaos. Swann and Caron should have arrived by now and my goal is to confuse them into making an even bigger slaughter. Later add the names of several victim including all I killed myself to the list of conspirators.

We come on top, and if Tarth really wishes to destroy his entire family he is free to execute the cousin, but reason will probably stop him or whoever is left in charge in committing a murder on the behalf of a dead liege. 

Why not just tell the king and let him handle it? Well it wouldn't be much of the success for me. I don't want to risk getting pat on the back and having tournament go on. Tournament must be sabotaged and chaos must ensue. The bigger the clash and more I inflate the already considerable ranks of the traitors the bigger hero I appear when it all ends. Since large number of participants is dead and rebellions are almost sure to ignite, tourny is canceled and I just became the prime candidate for the princess' hand.

Now Briony will join the Silent Sisters because what is bigger joy than to serve the Seven. My war comrade Swann will probably accept Saren marriage only given that I have married upwards, if not, Estermont is nothing to scoff at, and Falia will wait for better opportunity when I become king.

 

 

[Spilledguts]

Off-topic but you guys would really like Crusader Kings 2 with the Westeros mod. 

[Canon Claude]

Frankly, I’ve had a taste of power, and I’m not going to just leave the table and give my seat to a child. 

I agree to betrothe Saren to the Estermont heir. Given how prominent the Estermonts are, that should satisfy Briony that her daughter will be a great lady. Plus I get a new ally in Lord Estermont.

Frankly, Reynol reminds me of Ronard Storm, and I’d love to marry the woman of my dreams. I arrange for the murders of Swann and Caron and when the deeds are done, I have the assassins publicly executed to prove my own innocence. In the meantime, Reynol becomes king, my cousin lives, Falia marries Lord Toyne, and I take Alynne as my bride. Since I played no role in her father’s death, she will have no reason to hate me. On our wedding night, I promise to restore her to her rightful throne. I help her rally supporters while Reynol is still consolidating his power bases. Reynol’s head will be a suitable gift to provide my bride, even as I have Bryce smuggled off of Tarth before I betray Reynol. I take the Durrandon name, give my house to Bryce, and rule the Stormlands with my beloved queen.

[James Steller]

5 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

Frankly, I’ve had a taste of power, and I’m not going to just leave the table and give my seat to a child. 

I agree to betrothe Saren to the Estermont heir. Given how prominent the Estermonts are, that should satisfy Briony that her daughter will be a great lady. Plus I get a new ally in Lord Estermont.

Frankly, Reynol reminds me of Ronard Storm, and I’d love to marry the woman of my dreams. I arrange for the murders of Swann and Caron and when the deeds are done, I have the assassins publicly executed to prove my own innocence. In the meantime, Reynol becomes king, my cousin lives, Falia marries Lord Toyne, and I take Alynne as my bride. Since I played no role in her father’s death, she will have no reason to hate me. On our wedding night, I promise to restore her to her rightful throne. I help her rally supporters while Reynol is still consolidating his power bases. Reynol’s head will be a suitable gift to provide my bride, even as I have Bryce smuggled off of Tarth before I betray Reynol. I take the Durrandon name, give my house to Bryce, and rule the Stormlands with my beloved queen.

That sounds impressively contrived, Claude. A new high for you.

[Floki of the Ironborn]

What is the life of my cousin against the good of the realm? I pretend to agree with Reynol, but when the plans are underway, I send Falia to her fiancee in King Morden's court (after I secretly arrange for said betrothal to occur) with a message for the king. I arrange for Reynol's plot to fail, and if I can, I personally present his head to King Morden.

And since I had already stepped down from my lordship and given it to my brother's daughter, I am perfectly free to either fight in the tourney for Alynne's hand, or even request it as a boon from a grateful king. With all that done, I go to Tarth and have him executed for the murder of my cousin.

[Canon Claude]

16 hours ago, James Steller said:

That sounds impressively contrived, Claude. A new high for you.

It’s the Stormlands. They’re among the most fickle and unreliable people in Westeros. I figure I’ll play them off one another until I end up in charge.

[James Steller]

6 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

It’s the Stormlands. They’re among the most fickle and unreliable people in Westeros. I figure I’ll play them off one another until I end up in charge.

That seems an unfair judgment to make of the Stormlords. They've never openly rebelled against the Durrandons/ Baratheons like the Boltons or Royces or Freys or Reynes have done in the past.

[Relon]

I do not trust this bastard, and the fact that King Morden would rather see his house and bloodline (if not his name) overtaken by a second son of one of his vassals than legitimize his natural son is proof enough to justify my suspicion.  Further, I have no reason to be at odds with my king.  There is no bad blood between us, and I will not cause such grief to the object of my affections as assisting in the death of her father.  Even if it would result in our marriage, such would be a loveless thing that spoils the point.

It appears that Lord Tarth has come to the tourney along with the other conspirators.  It would make sense that he has brought my cousin, his squire, along with him.  I beg of Lord Tarth an opportunity to drink and revel with my cousin in these festivities and commiserate with the last of my male kin.  I use this as a chance to inform Bryce of Lord Tarth's treason and ensure his loyalty to me or at least the crown.  If he would rather side with Lord Tarth, I have him restrained and hidden away in a tent guarded by loyal men at arms.  He will see the error of his ways, and I do not intend to see more of my kin dead due to such folly.  If Bryce is not at the tourney with Lord Tarth, it is for the good as I will ensure that Lord Tarth is captured or killed in the putting down of the coup and unable to send any ravens home to order his execution.

I have no interest in marrying a child or waiting for one to come of age so I respectfully, but loudly, decline Lord Swann's offer.  As one of King Morden's most loyal men, such a match will be unnecessary in order to gain his support in putting the traitors down.  Instead, I betroth Saren to Lord Estermont's son, bringing him into the fold against the conspirators.  I also suggest that Saren foster with the Estermonts, ostensibly, to build the foundations of a relationship with her husband-to-be before the wedding.  Briony, however, will stay with me where I can keep an eye on her and she cannot poison the Estermonts against me into pursuing a foolhardy claim on behalf of Saren down the line.

My sister will marry the Dondarrion boy.  This adds another force against the conspirators and one that is battle-hardened from fighting the Dornish.  The Connington boy is simply too young, and with sons in service to the king's household, I do not suspect a need to win over House Errol.

The trick part is organizing the counter-coup without being found out by any of the conspirators.  In such an attempt, I will make a loud show of rejecting Lord Errol's marriage offer while more quietly advising him of the danger posed to his son and suggesting he meet with his son to have him pass the message to King Morden.  From there, I have Lords Estermont and Dondarrion discretely prepare their men for the apparently coming battle while I do the same.  All the while, I will assure Reynol Storm that I have made arrangements against Swann and Caron (using my well-witnessed rejection of Swann's proposal as proof of my loyalty to the cause).  I also encourage him by informing him that I have persuaded Lords Dondarrion and Estermont to join in "the plan," without ever actually specifying what that plan is.  If I can, I try to also figure out as many details about Reynol's plan for the coup as I can in order better prepare my counter to it, hopefully this can be done through my cousin (assuming his presence and loyalty).

If all goes well, I should be able to convince Storm that the Dondarrions, Estermonts, and I will be aiding them before turning on them while they are most vulnerable.  Hopefully, the conspirators will end up killed or captured (then killed or sent to The Wall), while I take credit for organizing the counter-coup.  There should be several juicy pieces of land newly vacated for reward or, if King Morden is feeling generous, the hand of his daughter while I renounce my own lands, take the Durrandon name and leave my castle to my cousin, if he was loyal or uninvolved, or to my sister's new betrothed upon their marrying if he agrees to take my own name (this option also assumes that the son offered by Lord Dondarrion is not his heir.  The scenario does not specifically state he is, which it seems to do for the other suitors, so I must assume he is not).  The second option allows my sister to remain in a familiar home where she is safer than on the Marches.

[Tygett Lannister]

Reynol claims he has support of Lords Cafferin, Grandison, Penrose, Toyne, and Tarth yet he offers me that Falia will wed Lord Toyne who is promised to wed Gradison's daughter. Which makes me think Reynol is not going to give me what is promised and probably doesn't have all the supporters he claims he has, my family is in a weak spot so he believes I am willing to risk more to secure my position so he goes to me first and then try to get other supporters with me being physically there.

I promise him I will kill Lords Caron and Swann and also say I will wed Saren to Lord Estermont's heir, visitng him first and Falia to Connington heir and visting her second to gain their support in this plot, once their support is gained we will call Caron to Swann's tent and go there to murder them. I send my agent to Tarth to warn my cousin to try and flee. I plan on marrying my sister-in-law Briony to anyone that is willing to take her, preferable on border so she might die to raids as she is married I take Saren as my ward.

I go to Lord Estermont and suggest that Saren would be given to him as a ward. I tell him about the plot and my counter plot (he readies his men) and together we go to Lady Connington and arrange a deal for Falia and her heir to be married and Falia would also be sent to Griffon's Roost immediately. We tell Lady Connington about the plot my counter plot(she readies her men) and we each send a knight from out companies to call Caron to Swann's tent. Once everyone is gathered at the tent we tell Caron and Swann about the plot and my counter plot, they ready their men. Then it is time for mummer's farce Caron and Swann scream like they are being stabbed and there is slashing of swords on armor. That should make Reynol's company show up and they would be defeated. In the morning I would ask the King to marry Alynne as reward for saving his throne. If he accepts I would name Saren heir to my lands and my future sons would be Stormkings.

[James Steller]

2 hours ago, Relon said:

 

It appears that Lord Tarth has come to the tourney along with the other conspirators.  It would make sense that he has brought my cousin, his squire, along with him. 

Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough, but Lord Tarth is still on Tarth, with your cousin. He will kill your cousin if he gets word of the coup's failure and/or your betrayal. And your cousin is an innocent of any plotting.

Basically, your cousin is a dead man if you don't help Reynol succeed. Your honour vs his life. My attempt at a Ned Stark dilemma in AGOT

[Relon]

1 hour ago, James Steller said:

Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough, but Lord Tarth is still on Tarth, with your cousin. He will kill your cousin if he gets word of the coup's failure and/or your betrayal. And your cousin is an innocent of any plotting.

Basically, your cousin is a dead man if you don't help Reynol succeed. Your honour vs his life. My attempt at a Ned Stark dilemma in AGOT

Fair enough for the scenario (I do enjoy how there's usually no perfect move).  I think I was confused by the prompt saying the Lords had brought men, and that translated to all the lord-conspirators are there with them in my head.

As for how it changes my response, I think it mostly stays the same and do as others have suggested and try to have my counter-coup be swift and decisive enough to prevent a message from getting out to Lord Tarth.  Even if one does, I think it is a safe enough risk.  By not actually being present, Lord Tarth has an opportunity to distance himself from the conspiracy, claim ignorance, and stick to a line that the others are just lying and trying to claw as many as they can down with them.  Executing my cousin in revenge for me foiling the plan only outs him as a co-conspirator.  If he does actually kill my cousin, I petition King Morden for men and authority to bring the traitor and murderer to justice.

[James Steller]

9 minutes ago, Relon said:

Fair enough for the scenario (I do enjoy how there's usually no perfect move).  I think I was confused by the prompt saying the Lords had brought men, and that translated to all the lord-conspirators are there with them in my head.

As for how it changes my response, I think it mostly stays the same and do as others have suggested and try to have my counter-coup be swift and decisive enough to prevent a message from getting out to Lord Tarth.  Even if one does, I think it is a safe enough risk.  By not actually being present, Lord Tarth has an opportunity to distance himself from the conspiracy, claim ignorance, and stick to a line that the others are just lying and trying to claw as many as they can down with them.  Executing my cousin in revenge for me foiling the plan only outs him as a co-conspirator.  If he does actually kill my cousin, I petition King Morden for men and authority to bring the traitor and murderer to justice.

He would do it in a way that seems like an accident, that can't be traced back to him. It would be his word against yours, and with all the instability, King Morden might accept Tarth's excuses to avoid losing more nobles than he already would.

[Relon]

16 hours ago, James Steller said:

He would do it in a way that seems like an accident, that can't be traced back to him. It would be his word against yours, and with all the instability, King Morden might accept Tarth's excuses to avoid losing more nobles than he already would.

Ah. The old "he fell off his horse."  Sometimes the simplest things can be overlooked.

On 10/10/2017 at 10:35 AM, James Steller said:

He claims to have Lords Cafferin, Grandison, Penrose, Toyne, and Tarth on his side, and they have brought many of their bannermen to the tourney to assist Reynol in his coup.

Assuming that some of those bannermen are those of Lord Tarth (though it could be that they are not and all stayed on the Sapphire Isle with their lord), I think it acts as more evidence implicating Lord Tarth than just my word (not to mention what some of the captured/surrendered conspirators might confess).  We have seen from the books that a lord can be hailed before the king to answer for the crimes of his bannerman in a form of respondeat superior. 

Even if not, I think I would still just roll the dice on Tarth's loyalty to a lost cause, his sense of decency in not having a hand in the murder of an innocent (an admittedly poor basis for any speculation in Westeros), and King Morden's desire to see a proven conspiracy against him stamped out once and for all.  Even if my cousin truly is a dead man no matter what if I foil the coup, the potential risks to myself, my family, and my house are too great to throw in with the bastard and outweigh the risk to my cousin.

[James Steller]

On 10/13/2017 at 11:46 AM, Relon said:

Even if my cousin truly is a dead man no matter what if I foil the coup, the potential risks to myself, my family, and my house are too great to throw in with the bastard and outweigh the risk to my cousin.

In hindsight, it might have been a better conflict if the risk had been one's only son who was on Tarth.

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

I will accept Reynol Storms offer but only after he and his Lords attend my daughter Falia's wedding to Lord Toyne at my Castle, It is here that i will kill Lords Caron and Swann.

 At the wedding i have informed Lords Caron and Swann that i am supposed to kill them and in return plot the arrest of Storm and his rebel Lords. My good nephew will be informed of this and will be instructed to turn on the very Knight that he is serving as he will be the one in possession of his weapons.

 Once the guests arrive i will send a Raven to Storms end instructing the King to send his men at once as we will need help with the various house soldiers.

 If i am successful i will request the hand of the Kings daughter in marriage making me the heir to the Throne.

 

I will settle my family dispute by marrying my good cousin to my brother's wife and he will name my brothers daughter his heir until he has his own heir i am assuming his father was my fathers brother.

 I will be happy to marry my daughter to the heir of Griffin's Roost.

 

 

[Universal Sword Donor]

I burn everything down and move to Dorne

[I Remain Unvanquished]

I betroth my sister to Lord Dondarrion's son. The marcher lords are skilled warriors and, as my father and brothers proved, the stranger is never far behind any of us anyway. 

I tell Reynol Storm I'm in. At the tourney, I arrange to meet with Lord Caron and Lord Swann in private. Afterwards I return to the conspirator's tent and present them with two bloody cloaks proclaiming that the deed is done and suggest we discuss our next move. When I get a chance I give a signal and the lords Dondarrion, Caron, and Swann pounce. The conspirators are either killed or seized and the bastard has my dagger at his throat before he knows what is happening. As he is being tied up I ask, "Were you really that stupid that you thought I'd betray the woman I love for you?"

I present the surviving conspirators to King Morden and when I'm granted a boon for saving his life, I ask for his daughter's hand in marriage. Hopefully Lord Tarth would be smart enough to realize his cause is dead and leave my cousin unharmed. If not, even if King Morden won't do anything, King Morden is old and his daughter will inherit after him making me king and as king I can make Lord Tarth's life hell and remove his head if he steps a toe out of line. 

As for my niece, since I'm marrying the princess and will be king, I step down from my lordship and name myself Saren's regent until she comes of age. If our cousin survived on Tarth, I'll have him marry Lady Saren. If he is killed I'll find someone who is willing to take my name so he and my niece can continue our house. 

[1000th Lord Commander]

I really can't take the bastard's offer, but I play along, and turn the tables as soon as I get a chance. So I quietly call in my men, and get Lords Caron and Swann to do the same. I speak to Princess Alynne, and have her gather trusted men as well, and we stage a counter coup and kill the bastard.

I marry Saren to Lord Estermont's heir, and my sister to Lord Errol's second son. With Saren married to an heir, my sister may end up inheriting the lordship, assuming I don't pass it to my own second son. I of course, use my counter coup to talk my way into Alynne's marriage bed. And if Tarth killes my cousin, I destroy Tarth down to the bedrock. It will be a useful object lesson when I am king.