Wow, I never noticed that v.16

[Bael's Bastard]

On 1/13/2018 at 3:10 PM, Widow's Watch said:

I did another read of Game not too long ago, and speaking of colors, Arya gives us a description of Ned is wearing before he is killed.

His House colors are flipped. The doublet is grey and the direwolf is white. 

Nice catch! You're on a roll!

[Corvo the Crow]

On ‎13‎.‎01‎.‎2018 at 11:05 PM, Lady Dacey said:

Rickon, the youngest Stark, gets a black wolf, while Jon, the eldest, gets a white one. All the others - which are in between - are grey (I've just duble checked). Interesting right? There is also much more grey (four!) than either white or black (one of each). 

Yes how did I forget that with my still post just above

On ‎13‎.‎01‎.‎2018 at 11:10 PM, Widow's Watch said:

I did another read of Game not too long ago, and speaking of colors, Arya gives us a description of Ned is wearing before he is killed.

His House colors are flipped. The doublet is grey and the direwolf is white. 

Nice one! I wonder though, is it Cersei who chose his clothing for insulting him, or Ned wore those on purpose.

On ‎14‎.‎01‎.‎2018 at 1:02 AM, ravenous reader said:

I like how when Ned is writing Stannis the letter denouncing Joffrey's right to the throne and declaring him a bastard, he seals the letter with the 'white direwolf' -- ironically, Jon is the true heir!

 

I never noticed that! I think Stark letters are always sealed on white wax because of the background color but in this instance a very nice hint on Jon being the true heir.

[Lost Melnibonean]

As to all the shades of truth...

Compare this...

Sansa left the shutters open as she dressed. It would be cold, she knew, though the Eyrie's towers encircled the garden and protected it from the worst of the mountain winds. She donned silken smallclothes and a linen shift, and over that a warm dress of blue lambswool. Two pairs of hose for her legs, boots that laced up to her knees, heavy leather gloves, and finally a hooded cloak of soft white fox fur.

Her maid rolled herself more tightly in her blanket as the snow began to drift in the window. Sansa eased open the door, and made her way down the winding stair. When she opened the door to the garden, it was so lovely that she held her breath, unwilling to disturb such perfect beauty. The snow drifted down and down, all in ghostly silence, and lay thick and unbroken on the ground. All color had fled the world outside. It was a place of whites and blacks and greys. White towers and white snow and white statues, black shadows and black trees, the dark grey sky above. A pure world, Sansa thought. I do not belong here.

Sansa VII, Storm 80

To this...

"His Grace is hunting across the Blackwater," Ned said, wondering how a man could live his whole life a few days ride from the Red Keep and still have no notion what his king looked like. Ned was clad in a white linen doublet with the direwolf of Stark on the breast; his black wool cloak was fastened at the collar by his silver hand of office. Black and white and grey, all the shades of truth. "I am Lord Eddard Stark, the King's Hand. Tell me who you are and what you know of these raiders."

Eddard XI, Game 43

And keep in mind the former passage comes just before she tries to build Winterfell with Petyr Baelish, the man who instigated the death and ruin brought down on her house.

[Corvo the Crow]

22 hours ago, LynnS said:

It could be a premonition about Theon and Ramsey.  When Bran leaves the crypts, everyone is dead.  Bones perhaps a foreshadowing of death.  Some event in the future that will affect Jon.  It seems a bit like a green-dream so I'm guessing that Jon's 3rd eye was already open before the direwolves, since this is an old recurring dream. .  

Indeed, it was probably Jon who found the direwolves when Robb and Jon raced

Quote

It was not Lord Eddard's face he saw floating before him, though; it was Lady Catelyn's. With her deep blue eyes and hard cold mouth, she looked a bit like Stannis. Iron, he thought, but brittle. She was looking at him the way she used to look at him at Winterfell, whenever he had bested Robb at swords or sums or most anything. Who are you? that look had always seemed to say. This is not your place. Why are you here?

 

Since we don't get to know which of the two spotted it first though, Jon hears Ghost which makes no sound at all.

 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

28 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Nice one! I wonder though, is it Cersei who chose his clothing for insulting him, or Ned wore those on purpose.

Thank you and probably. I did mention that this may have been Cersei's way of bastardizing Ned by flipping his House colors. This is what Ned did to Jon if Jon is a legitimate child. I find it very symbolic.

[Lady Dacey]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Yes how did I forget that with my still post just above

I wonder if this is meant to make Rickon somewhat different from his sibilings as well? But different how? Why is his wolf back, does it mean anything? The boy is a mystery. 

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Since we don't get to know which of the two spotted it first though, Jon hears Ghost which makes no sound at all.

Now that's an interesting point!

[Alexis-something-Rose]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Since we don't get to know which of the two spotted it first though, Jon hears Ghost which makes no sound at all.

Maybe the bond already existed between Jon and Ghost. Honestly, I've been wondering for some time if Jon isn't the winged wolf Jojen talks about. Jojen seems convinced that it's Bran, but the way Bran connected to Jon from the crypts, through Ghost is some really powerful stuff. In the end, Bran didn't need Bloodraven to accomplish that, or Jojen. It seems to me that it's Bran who is meant to break Jon's chains. I find it easy to believe that Bran is the one who is chained because of his physical limitations, but he's a greenseer and that makes him pretty limitless, imo.

[WildlingWitch]

1 hour ago, Widow's Watch said:

Maybe the bond already existed between Jon and Ghost. Honestly, I've been wondering for some time if Jon isn't the winged wolf Jojen talks about. Jojen seems convinced that it's Bran, but the way Bran connected to Jon from the crypts, through Ghost is some really powerful stuff. In the end, Bran didn't need Bloodraven to accomplish that, or Jojen. It seems to me that it's Bran who is meant to break Jon's chains. I find it easy to believe that Bran is the one who is chained because of his physical limitations, but he's a greenseer and that makes him pretty limitless, imo.

 

It's interesting that when Jojen is satisfied that he has the 'Winged Wolf' he immediately has a  greendream about Jon. It's like Bloodraven was telling Jojen "Great you got me one kid but you've forgetten the other one.

[divica]

53 minutes ago, WildlingWitch said:

 

It's interesting that when Jojen is satisfied that he has the 'Winged Wolf' he immediately has a  greendream about Jon. It's like Bloodraven was telling Jojen "Great you got me one kid but you've forgetten the other one.

jojen has a greendream about jon? when?

[WildlingWitch]

32 minutes ago, divica said:

jojen has a greendream about jon? when?

 

I can't remember the quote of the top of my head but it's when Jon has just joined the Wildlings. Jojen wakes up and turns to Bran saying 'I had a dream about your brother Jon, he's on the wrong side of the Wall' 

I just thought it was interesting because if Jojen's sole purpose is to get Bran to the eyed crow why is he dreaming about Jon? 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

14 hours ago, Lady Dacey said:

I wonder if this is meant to make Rickon somewhat different from his sibilings as well? But different how? Why is his wolf back, does it mean anything? The boy is a mystery. 

Is it possible that Rickon's wolf color has to do with him having more of the wolf blood than his siblings do?

It's like there's this sort of spectrum of colors. Ghost is white, Summer is silver grey, both Nymeria and Lady (I think Sansa is all kinds of repressed) are grey, Grey Wind was the color of smoke and Shaggy is black. 

The difficult thing to tell with Rickon is whether he's acting this way because he feels he's been completely abandoned by his mother and the siblings who left or if it's because he's been spending too much time inside Shaggy and losing himself. It could be both, I guess.

[Lady Dacey]

13 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

The difficult thing to tell with Rickon is whether he's acting this way because he feels he's been completely abandoned by his mother and the siblings who left or if it's because he's been spending too much time inside Shaggy and losing himself. It could be both, I guess.

While we can't know for a fact if he's discovered how to skinchange yet (though I believe he did) the psychological impact of abandonment to a child on the age range of 3-4 is unquestionable. So I'd go with go with "both". 

There's also the fact Shaggy has green eyes while the grey wolves have yellow/golden eyes. Sounds like...

Quote

"In a sense. Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. By these signs do the gods mark those they have chosen to receive the gift. The chosen ones are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few, for every song must have its balance. But once inside the wood they linger long indeed. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. Greenseers."

Four yellow eyed wolves, one red-eyed wolf and one green-eyed wolf. And yet the most powerful one seems to be Bran who's got a regular grey and golden-eyed wolf... 

[Corvo the Crow]

12 hours ago, WildlingWitch said:

 

It's interesting that when Jojen is satisfied that he has the 'Winged Wolf' he immediately has a  greendream about Jon. It's like Bloodraven was telling Jojen "Great you got me one kid but you've forgetten the other one.

Jon is a wolf because of his Stark ancestry and his direwolf, but he's also a crow, because of his vows. We know prophecies are tricky.

Crow + Wolf = Winged Wolf. He also now "owns" Old Bear's Raven (which I'll name mischief, cause, reasons.) so he is winged in that sense too.

 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

19 minutes ago, Lady Dacey said:

While we can't know for a fact if he's discovered how to skinchange yet (though I believe he did) the psychological impact of abandonment to a child on the age range of 3-4 is unquestionable. So I'd go with go with "both". 

I think this quote indicates that Rickon is skinchanging.

Quote

He could smell his brother too, a familiar scent, strong and earthy, his scent as black as his coat. His brother was loping around the walls, full of fury. Round and round he went, night after day after night, tireless, searching . . . for prey, for a way out, for his mother, his littermates, his pack . . . searching, searching and never finding. (Bran I, Clash 4)

 

19 minutes ago, Lady Dacey said:

Four yellow eyed wolves, one red-eyed wolf and one green-eyed wolf. And yet the most powerful one seems to be Bran who's got a regular grey and golden-eyed wolf...

Shaggy's eyes are described a couple of times as being green like wildfire, like Cersei's eyes. I *think* they are the only two in the books who have been described as having eyes like that. I'm not very good with associating things in the text, mainly because I tend to not pay attention to details, but I'm not sure it bodes well for Rickon.

And Bran is certainly very powerful. I thought his connection dream with Jon was one of the coolest thing in the entire series.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

On 13-1-2018 at 9:05 PM, Lady Dacey said:

Rickon, the youngest Stark, gets a black wolf, while Jon, the eldest, gets a white one. All the others - which are in between - are grey (I've just duble checked). Interesting right? There is also much more grey (four!) than either white or black (one of each). 

We actually don't know whether Jon is the eldest or not. The official story appears to be that he is not, as he is believed to have been conceived by Eddard after Catelyn was already pregnant with Robb. Of course, that doesn't mean that Jon is actually younger than Robb, but it felt like something worth mentioning.

 

12 hours ago, WildlingWitch said:

 

I can't remember the quote of the top of my head but it's when Jon has just joined the Wildlings. Jojen wakes up and turns to Bran saying 'I had a dream about your brother Jon, he's on the wrong side of the Wall' 

I just thought it was interesting because if Jojen's sole purpose is to get Bran to the eyed crow why is he dreaming about Jon? 

Could you perhaps find the quote? I searched for the dream, but I couldn't find it.

Jojen declares his belief that Bran is the winged wolf in Bran IV, ACOK. In that same chapter, Meera mentions that Jojen had dreamt about Bran and the two Walders. ("Your father listened, I have no doubt. But in the end, he decided for himself. Bran, will you let me tell you about a dream Jojen dreamed of you and your fosterling brothers?").

And in Bran V, Jojen mentions another dream, where the "brother" he mentions is Rickon. ("Not drowned." Jojen spoke as if every word pained him. "I dreamed of the man who came today, the one they call Reek. You and your brother lay dead at his feet, and he was skinning off your faces with a long red blade.")

Searching by "Jon" in Bran's ACOK chapters gives only one dream involving Jon, but that is a dream dreamt by Bran himself. ([...] Here in the chill damp darkness of the tomb his third eye had finally opened. He could reach Summer whenever he wanted, and once he had even touched Ghost and talked to Jon. Though maybe he had only dreamed that. [...]). Searching Bran's ASOS chapters by "Jon" doesn't yield any dream.

 

[Lady Anna]

17 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

Maybe the bond already existed between Jon and Ghost. Honestly, I've been wondering for some time if Jon isn't the winged wolf Jojen talks about. Jojen seems convinced that it's Bran, but the way Bran connected to Jon from the crypts, through Ghost is some really powerful stuff. In the end, Bran didn't need Bloodraven to accomplish that, or Jojen. It seems to me that it's Bran who is meant to break Jon's chains. I find it easy to believe that Bran is the one who is chained because of his physical limitations, but he's a greenseer and that makes him pretty limitless, imo.

This is actually pretty interesting. The chained part could refer to the Night's Watch, or Jon's own insecurities.

[divica]

Quote

The magister waggled his fat fingers. "Some contracts are writ in ink, and some in blood. I say no more."

Quote

"A tradition of the company," Inkpots explained. "There was a time when each new man wrote his name in his own blood, but as it happens, blood makes piss-poor ink."

So is ilirio saying that the contract with the golden company is very old? Because is was written in blood...

[Lost Melnibonean]

18 minutes ago, divica said:

So is ilirio saying that the contract with the golden company is very old? Because is was written in blood...

You are citing quotes about two different companies. And the first deals with a contract between the Golden Company and whoever procured its services, while second involves the men who sign up to serve in the Second Sons. 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

1 minute ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

You are citing quotes about two different companies. And the first deals with a contract between the Golden Company and whoever procured its services, while second involves the men who sign up to serve in the Second Sons. 

@divica

But it is very interesting to see the two companies current views on the blood vs. ink dynamic. I like it. Nice find (even if it wasn't what you were intending)!