Wow, I never noticed that v.16

[The Fattest Leech]

54 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Catelyn? Cat would now know that the Bolton bride is not her Arya.  This may throw a wrench in the Harwin is the hooded man theory since she knows there is no point of going there to Save Arya.

It seems the orphanarium that the BWB has set up at the Inn at the Crossroads is there not just to collect the orphans of the blooded lands, but also to specifically look for Arya Stark.

I can't remember if Cat, now LSH, knows for sure that Jeyne is standing in for Arya and the sham marriage. I don't know that it was Harwin as the hooded man because I think he was with LSH when Brienne meets her, and the timing would be near impossible for him to get from Brienne to Winterfell in that short a time. 

*Sorry for the delayed response. Just got a phone call summoning me to an emergency dinner to celebrate my closest friend finally buying a house

@Corvo the Crow  adding: I can’t think of all the clues at the moment because I have to rush out of the door, but I believe

@sweetsunray has a bit of the details pulled together in a thread of hers. 

[mechacik]

I found something about Patchface and cod

A Clash fo Kings, Prologue:

Quote

Patchface was capering about as the maester made his slow way around the table to Davos Seaworth. "Here we eat fish," the fool declared happily, waving a cod about like a scepter. "Under the sea, the fish eat us. I know, I know, oh, oh, oh."

A Dance with Dragons:

Quote

 Not the Children's Tower. Dagon Codd went over there a few days back. Only two men left alive, he said, and they was eating on the dead ones. He killed them both, if you can believe that.

 

[Corvo the Crow]

21 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

seems the orphanarium that the BWB has set up at the Inn at the Crossroads is there not just to collect the orphans of the blooded lands, but also to specifically look for Arya Stark.

Good point, Gendry was there last we saw him, right?

21 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

can't remember if Cat, now LSH, knows for sure that Jeyne is standing in for Arya and the sham marriage

She should know about marriage after Brienne is captured, not so sure on who fArya really is though

[Lost Melnibonean]

Aeron should have been named Eeyore. 

[Seams]

We know that GRRM likes to do things in threes. We know about two high Valyrian sayings about life:

Valar morghulis - "all men must die," and

Valar dohaeris - "all men must serve".

Could this be a hint about a third "must" for all men?

King Daeron II died the next year in the Great Spring Sickness, along with two of his grandchildren, Princes Valarr and Matarys.

[Deepbollywood Motte]

1 hour ago, Seams said:

We know that GRRM likes to do things in threes. We know about two high Valyrian sayings about life:

Valar morghulis - "all men must die," and

Valar dohaeris - "all men must serve".

Could this be a hint about a third "must" for all men?

King Daeron II died the next year in the Great Spring Sickness, along with two of his grandchildren, Princes Valarr and Matarys.

Valar Matarys - "All men must be born". The circle of life; be born, serve, die. Sounds a lot like a feudal society, on any level, from king to small lord.

[Lollygag]

@Seams

58 minutes ago, Deepbollywood Motte said:

Valar Matarys - "All men must be born". The circle of life; be born, serve, die. Sounds a lot like a feudal society, on any level, from king to small lord.

Reminds me of this.

House Tolard’s sigil used to be a ghost but they took a dragon eating it’s tail (time) in mockery of Aegon who killed their fool.

 

AFFC The Soiled Knight

She took Ser Arys by the hand, and wove her fingers through his own. "Have you ever seen the arms of House Toland of Ghost Hill?"

He had to think a moment. "A dragon eating its own tail?"

"The dragon is time. It has no beginning and no ending, so all things come round again.

 

The World of Ice and Fire - Dorne: Dorne Against the Dragons

Aegon had more success, but other than the brief siege at Yronwood, where he was opposed by a handful of old men, boys, and women, he found little opposition. Even Skyreach, the great seat of the Fowlers, was abandoned. At Ghost Hill, the seat of House Toland atop the white chalk hill that overlooks the Sea of Dorne, Aegon saw the banner bearing the Toland ghost flying above the walls and received word that Lord Toland had sent out his champion to face him. Aegon slew the man with his sword, Blackfyre, only to learn that he was Lord Toland's mad fool and that Lord Toland himself was gone with his household from the castle. In later days, the Tolands would take a new banner, showing a dragon biting its own tail, green on gold in memory of the motley of their brave fool.

 

[Seams]

8 hours ago, Deepbollywood Motte said:

Valar Matarys - "All men must be born". The circle of life; be born, serve, die. Sounds a lot like a feudal society, on any level, from king to small lord.

This is along the lines I was thinking, too. Something to do with the three stages of life, the cycle of rebirth, the three heads of Trios.

7 hours ago, Lollygag said:

AFFC The Soiled Knight

She took Ser Arys by the hand, and wove her fingers through his own. "Have you ever seen the arms of House Toland of Ghost Hill?"

He had to think a moment. "A dragon eating its own tail?"

"The dragon is time. It has no beginning and no ending, so all things come round again.

 

The World of Ice and Fire - Dorne: Dorne Against the Dragons

Aegon had more success, but other than the brief siege at Yronwood, where he was opposed by a handful of old men, boys, and women, he found little opposition. Even Skyreach, the great seat of the Fowlers, was abandoned. At Ghost Hill, the seat of House Toland atop the white chalk hill that overlooks the Sea of Dorne, Aegon saw the banner bearing the Toland ghost flying above the walls and received word that Lord Toland had sent out his champion to face him. Aegon slew the man with his sword, Blackfyre, only to learn that he was Lord Toland's mad fool and that Lord Toland himself was gone with his household from the castle. In later days, the Tolands would take a new banner, showing a dragon biting its own tail, green on gold in memory of the motley of their brave fool. 

I love this. This could have a lot of implications.

One of the grandsons of Daeron II, Valarr, makes an appearance in The Hedge Knight. He is in direct line to inherit the throne some day and - true to the hair / heir pun - has a thick head of Targaryen silver gold curls around his face. But he is obnoxious and entitled, and seems to have arranged matches in the tournament to make it easy for him to progress instead of truly testing his skill at jousting. Valarr also loans his father his armor to use during the trial of seven, with a tragic outcome. I think the tournament is a big metaphor for proving oneself worthy of the Iron Throne, with Bloodraven as the hidden judge behind the scenes. So the later deaths of Valarr and Matarys might be part of that larger failure to measure up to Bloodraven's standards.

All men must be judged? All men must prove themselves? All men must earn their own way? Stand on their own merits?

[sweetsunray]

On 09/04/2018 at 5:28 PM, Corvo the Crow said:

Good point, Gendry was there last we saw him, right?

He was. The orphanage is LS's last hope to find Arya. Here's why LS and Gendry would know that fArya married to Ramsay isn't the real Arya.

BwB and Gendry both know that Arya was with them and afterwards with Sandor as far as the Twins for sure. They were after all pursuing Sandor, when they came across the body of LS that Nym pulled out of the river. Then they interrogated two Freys who helped out and were present at the Red Wedding. One's already hanged, but we know BwB ask Merret Frey about Arya without using her name. He doesn't even have a clue of any girl found or killed at the RW, and yet he is trusted enough by Walder Frey to carry the ransom sum to them. So, if by the end of aSoS they had learned of a rumor that Arya was found and was to be wed to Ramsay then the answers of their captives would negate the plausibility of the Boltons capturing Arya at the Twins.

And then there are the events at the Crossroads. Arya and Sandor fought and slew several of the Mountain's men in there. There were witnesses to this, who survived long enough to tell the tale to Shagwell. They probably told the tale to anyone they came across asap, just to make sure the Mountain himself wouldn't blame them for the killings. BwB has an intricate network of informers. They would have learned of this fight of the Hound with a fierce boy by his side who stabbed a soldier to death. Especially Gendry would realize that was Arya, and the BwB too know that Arya's hair was cut short and she wore clothes that help her pass for a boy. All of them know that the Hound and a kid = Sandor + Arya.

The Crossroads = the Orphanage. The blood stains are still there on the floor as leftover evidence of Arya having been there. It cannot be washed out. The crux is that the fight at the Crossroads happened AFTER the Lannisters and Boltons claimed to have found Arya.

The last known whereabouts of the Hound was Saltpans. Well, Sandor never reached Saltpans as far as we know, but his helmet appeared there during the raid on Saltpans. This is the extra personal motivation for them to hunt those butchers down. BwB and Gendry and LS probably fear that Arya died at Saltpans at the hands of the raiders, may have been raped and cut, but they would equally hope she may have escaped, and thus wanders the Riverlands. And then the orphanage is the most logical way to help find her. Anyone going to and fro and through the Riverlands at one time passes the Crossroads. And it has become renowned enough as an orphanage that septons and brothers of the faith drop off children at the Crossroads. The hope is that a similar man might find Arya, give her food and guidance, and would take her to the Crossroads, and then Gendry is there to identify her.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Consider this...

Quote

Jon said, “My lord father believed no man could tell a lie in front of a heart tree. The old gods know when men are lying.”

“My father believed the same,” said the Old Bear.

Jon II, Clash 13

That's why the Ned had Cersei meet him in the godswood. 

And now consider this...

Quote

Then the mists parted, like the curtain opening at a mummer show to reveal some new tableau. The heart tree appeared in front of them, its bony limbs spread wide. Fallen leaves lay about the wide white trunk in drifts of red and brown. The ravens were the thickest here, muttering to one another in the murderers’ secret tongue. Ramsay Bolton stood beneath them, clad in high boots of soft grey leather and a black velvet doublet slashed with pink silk and glittering with garnet teardrops. A smile danced across his face. “Who comes?” His lips were moist, his neck red above his collar. “Who comes before the god?”

Theon answered. “Arya of House Stark comes here to be wed. A woman grown and flowered, trueborn and noble, she comes to beg the blessings of the gods.”

The Prince of Wimterfell, Dance 37

Are there any examples of a lie told in front of a heart tree leading to adverse consequences?

[Corvo the Crow]

Quote

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

Someone possibly posted this before but I never noticed it. Quentyn the Sun's Son rose in the west and set in the east

[Lady Anna]

Just thought about the fact than Cersei vehemently demanding Lady's death and her pelt, might have seemed to her a petty and satisfying way to enact ''revenge'' on Lyanna (wolf girl) for her relationship (whatever it may have been) with Rhaegar, her old pretender. Like psychologically, a way to triumph over her.

(Sorry if this is confusing)

[goldenmaps]

21 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:

Just thought about the fact than Cersei vehemently demanding Lady's death and her pelt, might have seemed to her a petty and satisfying way to enact ''revenge'' on Lyanna (wolf girl) for her relationship (whatever it may have been) with Rhaegar, her old pretender. Like psychologically, a way to triumph over her.

(Sorry if this is confusing)

Maybe.  Cersei doesn't like House Stark that much.  Both Robert and Rhaegar loved Lyanna (or their version of her) and Cersei's ego can't take it. Of course, Cersei is also very petty. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

13 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Someone possibly posted this before but I never noticed it. Quentyn the Sun's Son rose in the west and set in the east

Yes, that was noted shortly after the publication of Dance. You might find this interesting. Or not. 

[Therae]

On 4/11/2018 at 10:52 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Consider this...

Jon II, Clash 13

That's why the Ned had Cersei meet him in the godswood. 

And now consider this...

The Prince of Wimterfell, Dance 37

Are there any examples of a lie told in front of a heart tree leading to adverse consequences?

CoK, Sansa II, Dontos swears to send Sansa home (while generally misleading her by omission if nothing else), and he didn't come to a very good end...

"Thank you, sweet lady." Ser Dontos lurched clumsily to his feet, and brushed earth and leaves from his knees. "Your lord father was as true a man as the realm has ever known, but I stood by and let them slay him. I said nothing, did nothing . . . and yet, when Joffrey would have slain me, you spoke up. Lady, I have never been a hero, no Ryam Redwyne or Barristan the Bold. I've won no tourneys, no renown in war . . . but I was a knight once, and you have helped me remember what that meant. My life is a poor thing, but it is yours." Ser Dontos placed a hand on the gnarled bole of the heart tree. He was shaking, she saw. "I vow, with your father's gods as witness, that I shall send you home."

[kissdbyfire]

On 11/04/2018 at 1:52 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Are there any examples of a lie told in front of a heart tree leading to adverse consequences?

There's Ramsay and fArya's "wedding", which was a terrible lie. 

Can't wait to see consequences raining down on the Boltons!

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 hours ago, Therae said:

CoK, Sansa II, Dontos swears to send Sansa home (while generally misleading her by omission if nothing else), and he didn't come to a very good end...

"Thank you, sweet lady." Ser Dontos lurched clumsily to his feet, and brushed earth and leaves from his knees. "Your lord father was as true a man as the realm has ever known, but I stood by and let them slay him. I said nothing, did nothing . . . and yet, when Joffrey would have slain me, you spoke up. Lady, I have never been a hero, no Ryam Redwyne or Barristan the Bold. I've won no tourneys, no renown in war . . . but I was a knight once, and you have helped me remember what that meant. My life is a poor thing, but it is yours." Ser Dontos placed a hand on the gnarled bole of the heart tree. He was shaking, she saw. "I vow, with your father's gods as witness, that I shall send you home."

Petyr probably told him that he would take her home, no? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

There's Ramsay and fArya's "wedding", which was a terrible lie. 

Can't wait to see consequences raining down on the Boltons!

Let it rain!

[Corvo the Crow]

Dragon having 3 heads doesn't appear to go beyond three centuries 

Quote

Heraldic banners had long been a tradition amongst the lords of Westeros, but such had never been used by the dragonlords of old Valyria. When Aegon's knights unfurled his great silken battle standard, with a red threeheaded dragon breathing fire upon a black field, the lords took it for a sign that he was now truly one of them, a worthy high king for Westeros.

Dragon must have 3 heads may have no special, prophetic meaning after all

[Corvo the Crow]

9 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Yes, that was noted shortly after the publication of Dance. You might find this interesting. Or not. 

I've made the connection between Pyramids and mountains shortly after posting that but failed to see the Dothraki sea. Nice read, thanks!