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aeverett

Does Edmere Tully's Baby Son Truly Exist?

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Rewatching the siege at Riverrun in 'No One' and it occurred to me that Jaime's claim that Edmere had a son conceived on his wedding night with Roslyn Frey might just have been a ploy to make him more malleable.  I asked a friend who'd read the books and she says that the baby was real there, but she can't remember if it was independently confirmed or whether we have to trust Jaime's word there as well.   Considering how long sieges take, and the pressure Jaime was under to get back to King's Landing, it would have been a stroke of genius.  If the baby is real, it's still clever.  

 

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Things are very different from the books in this particular case. In the books, I'm pretty sure the baby is real, but in the show, maybe he did just make it up.

While both versions have him resolving the siege by promising Edmure a decent life as a noble hostage with his family, the details are almost the exact opposite.

In the book, despite Edmure sneakily delaying the surrender until the Blackfish can escape, Jaime still immediately sends Edmure to Casterly Rock, and later tells other people that Roslin and the baby will be joining Edmure as soon as she gives birth and is fit to travel. Since this is around the time he pointedly decides not to return to KL despite Cersei's plea, he's far enough on his redemption arc that this tells us what kind of man he's becoming.

In the show, Edmure does everything exactly as promised, and Jaime still immediately forgets about him. Walder takes Edmure back and tosses him in a dungeon cell, and nobody ever hears from him again. Since Jaime has returned to Cersei and been caught up in her mess again, this tells us that he's never going to be redeemed until he finally gets free of her.

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7 hours ago, falcotron said:

In the show, Edmure does everything exactly as promised, and Jaime still immediately forgets about him. Walder takes Edmure back and tosses him in a dungeon cell, and nobody ever hears from him again. Since Jaime has returned to Cersei and been caught up in her mess again, this tells us that he's never going to be redeemed until he finally gets free of her.

Show!Jaime is way off plot with Book!Jaime, almost like they were different characters. In the books, you can slowly feel Jaime trying to become a better person whereas with Show!Jaime they've set him back so many times by keeping him with Cersei that I don't feel like we can honestly take him at his word. While I see no reason why he would lie about Roslin being pregnant or having had a baby, I wouldn't wouldn't put it past him.

I mean, God knows where Edmure even is!

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8 hours ago, Faera said:

Show!Jaime is way off plot with Book!Jaime, almost like they were different characters. In the books, you can slowly feel Jaime trying to become a better person whereas with Show!Jaime they've set him back so many times by keeping him with Cersei that I don't feel like we can honestly take him at his word.

I imagine that book!Jaime had a horrible dream one night in the Riverlands about what would happen if he answered Cersei's plea to return to KL and help her, and that dream is the last two years of the show (up until the end of S7, when Cersei finally goes too far and Jaime seems to finally be on track again). I'm not quite sure why Jaime's nightmare puts so much emphasis on Pod having a magic penis, but otherwise it makes sense.

8 hours ago, Faera said:

While I see no reason why he would lie about Roslin being pregnant or having had a baby, I wouldn't wouldn't put it past him.

Well, it would make it easier to sell Edmure on the need to sell out Riverrun in exchange for a better life for his family. I haven't rewatched the episode to see if that's confirmed or just plausible, but it's at least plausible.

8 hours ago, Faera said:

I mean, God knows where Edmure even is!

I'm pretty sure he's still rotting in a cell in the Twins. If D&D wanted to have Arya rescue him, they would have showed that to us, so presumably she didn't know he was there. Meanwhile, she apparently left the Twins in charge of Walder's young widow, and I doubt a survey of the dungeon is Kitty's top priority. Maybe he'll be freed after Dany defeats Cersei and sets about fixing up Westeros, if they bother doing an epilogue covering all of the realms at the end of S8.

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On 10/12/2017 at 6:29 AM, falcotron said:

In the show, Edmure does everything exactly as promised, and Jaime still immediately forgets about him. Walder takes Edmure back and tosses him in a dungeon cell, and nobody ever hears from him again. 

Actually, Edmere refused that deal.  Jaime offered him and his small family comfort at Casterly Rock and a keep for his son when the boy grew up, but Edmere refused the carrot.  Jaime then used the stick of threatening to send the baby over in a catapult, and only then did Edmere comply with his demands.   Jaime was under no obligation to provide the life of a noble to Edmere or his little family once Edmere rejected it. 

However, the fact that he had no internal desire to make things right with the man he just threatened shows more than anything the distance Jaime still has to go before he is redeemed, assuming he will be.  

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