Football: International Break-Up

[mormont]

Ah, Malky Mackay, winner of the 'most insincere apology' award for 2014. He spent most of it complaining about how hard done by he was. I doubt that to this day he could adequately explain what he did wrong. But it's OK, he apologised and now we can give him a cosy job at the SFA. Fuck that guy and fuck the SFA for employing him in any capacity.

2 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Though, he is quite a divisive figure in his own right. When he moved from Leicester to Celtic, Northern Ireland fans turned on him, sent him death threats and he had to quit the national team.

That... had nothing to do with Lennon being 'a divisive figure'. It had to do with him being a Northern Irish Catholic and the fact that he has always attracted death threats from some thugs as a result. The way you've put it sounds like you're ascribing it to him as a personality. He can indeed be divisive, but the death threats don't come from that. They come from sectarianism, which would be a terrible reason not to appoint him as a manager. (It's not as if the type of Rangers fan that hates Lennon follows Scotland anyway.)

That said I doubt he would be interested and his record with Hibs doesn't really justify pursuing him IMO.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Well, but there's also his tenure at Celtic (which I remember quite fondly, because it conincided with the Huns going bust).

Anyway, that what I meant by being too Celtic.

And he did what he was supposed to do with the Hibs.

[Calibandar]

4 hours ago, Notone said:

Overall, it was much Robben, and very little of everything else.

True. And there was so much else that wasn't right, from the constant slow and hesitant starts of this team, to the line-up that changes drastically every other game. And then there's some guys who once looked promising and just turned out to be... shit.

The two central defenders should be Virgil van Dijk and Lazio's Stefan de Vrij. Did these two even play together once in the entire qualifiying campaign? The right back was a different choice literally every single game. No matter if the person did well, next game they'd be on the bench. That astounded me. Most problematic for me was the continious use of non-scorer Vincent Janssen as the Dutch striker. You could see early on that this guy just will not score goals, could predictably not get a sniff at Tottenham and was worthless for Holland. But no, keep using him game in game out whilst Bas Dost scores 34 league goals in Portugal last year. So many bad decisions. And still better than Sweden.

[Jordan La Cabra]

52 minutes ago, mormont said:

That... had nothing to do with Lennon being 'a divisive figure'. It had to do with him being a Northern Irish Catholic and the fact that he has always attracted death threats from some thugs as a result. The way you've put it sounds like you're ascribing it to him as a personality. He can indeed be divisive, but the death threats don't come from that. They come from sectarianism, which would be a terrible reason not to appoint him as a manager. (It's not as if the type of Rangers fan that hates Lennon follows Scotland anyway.)

 

Did you not read where I said the sectarian abuse he received has been undeserved? 

Not all Northern Irish Catholics receive death threats. There are currently some playing in our national team now and they've never received any abuse. Hell, Michael O'Neill is out manager and no one says a thing about him. 

Allegedly Lennon had said some stuff along the lines of wanting to play for a United Ireland that caused certain paramilitaries to send him a death threat. Did a comment like that deserve a death threat? Absolutely not. But a comment from a Northern Irish international saying he'd like to play for a United Ireland is something that would make him pretty 'divisive', considering the sectarian divisions in NI and the largely Protestant Loyalist following of the NI team. 

[Teng Ai Hui]

Part of a comment in the previous thread by @The Wedge:

Quote

I love Timmy Howard, but can someone tell me the US has a goalkeeper available in the pipeline that isn't eligible to join AARP?

Yes, the USMNT has two prospects in Bill Hamid (26, DC United) and Sean Johnson (28, NYCFC).  They just aren't as well know because they have never played for a club outside the MLS. I wish Klinsmann had given them more chances during Howard's international hiatus rather than relying on Guzan.  If you lose your starting spot at Aston Villa, maybe your national team manager should pass on you as well.

[Raja]

Man, waking up at 7:30 am for the United- Liverpool game is not going to be any fun at all. I don't know how ya'll do it 

[mormont]

10 hours ago, Notone said:

And he did what he was supposed to do with the Hibs.

And is still doing it. But doing what you're supposed to do isn't enough to earn the job, you're looking for someone who does more than that.

9 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Did you not read where I said the sectarian abuse he received has been undeserved? 

Yes. And it goes without saying that any sectarian abuse is undeserved, unwarranted and to be condemned. But... when you qualify that view, as you did above and do below, you are running the risk of coming off as blaming the victim. Not all Catholics who've played for NI got death threats, no. So what? That does not reflect on Neil Lennon in any way.

Quote

Allegedly Lennon had said some stuff along the lines of wanting to play for a United Ireland that caused certain paramilitaries to send him a death threat. Did a comment like that deserve a death threat? Absolutely not. But a comment from a Northern Irish international saying he'd like to play for a United Ireland is something that would make him pretty 'divisive', considering the sectarian divisions in NI and the largely Protestant Loyalist following of the NI team. 

So this thing he might have said, that you admit you don't know he did say, would make him 'divisive', if it's a thing that actually happened: and it doesn't justify death threats, but is somehow still relevant to the conversation?

What does this comment contribute? The conversation begins and ends with this: sectarian abuse is unacceptable.

[Jordan La Cabra]

2 hours ago, mormont said:

So this thing he might have said, that you admit you don't know he did say, would make him 'divisive', if it's a thing that actually happened: and it doesn't justify death threats, but is somehow still relevant to the conversation?

What does this comment contribute? The conversation begins and ends with this: sectarian abuse is unacceptable.

I am trying to give a bit of context to the story. It was those claims that he had said he wanted to play for a United Ireland and the death threats he received for it that made him quit the NI team. I don't have a clue whether or not he said it - frankly, I wouldn't care if a current NI player came out and said it, but it would still be 'divisive' to most other NI fans - but it's an important story in his career. 

I live in the country in the U.K. worst effected by sectarian abuse. You don't need to tell me that it's unacceptable, Mormont, I know better than most. 

I did not know, though, that merely discussing sectarianism is now seen as sectarian. If that's the case, everyone in NI is sectarian, because it's one of the most discussed topics in my country.

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

12 hours ago, Calibandar said:

But no, keep using him game in game out whilst Bas Dost scores 34 league goals in Portugal last year. So many bad decisions. And still better than Sweden.

In Portugal being an not unimportant part. I remember Dost from his Bundesliga days, he was a good striker, but hardly world class (at least not in terms of producing those displays on a weekly basis). So he hardly is in the same league as his great predecessors like Nistelrooy.

2 hours ago, mormont said:

And is still doing it. But doing what you're supposed to do isn't enough to earn the job, you're looking for someone who does more than that.

That is a fair point, but on the other hand Moyes?

[Philokles]

5 hours ago, Teng Ai Hui said:

Part of a comment in the previous thread by @The Wedge:

Yes, the USMNT has two prospects in Bill Hamid (26, DC United) and Sean Johnson (28, NYCFC).  They just aren't as well know because they have never played for a club outside the MLS. I wish Klinsmann had given them more chances during Howard's international hiatus rather than relying on Guzan.  If you lose your starting spot at Aston Villa, maybe your national team manager should pass on you as well.

Also Ethan Horvath who is playing in Europe and is only 22 (and Jonathan Klinsmann ).

 

13 hours ago, Notone said:

And he did what he was supposed to do with the Hibs.

Terrible with Bolton too. One of those mainly responsible for them dropping into League One for last season.

[Rorshach]

1 hour ago, Horse of Kent said:

Also Ethan Horvath who is playing in Europe and is only 22 (and Jonathan Klinsmann ).

Remember Horvath when he was playing for Molde in Norway. I think he was 18 when he debuted (think I was at that game, actually, a friend is a Molde supporter and dragged me to a cup game nearby. Molde’s rather hapless first choice was injured, and Horvath came on).

He looked good then - still raw and made a few positional mistakes and blunders, but I remember thinking he could have a bright future if he contiuned to improve. Where does he play now?

[polishgenius]

Young and Mkhitaryan have had Moreno on toast so far.

On the other hand Herrera needs to get up to pace quickly. Liverpool have had some joy driving down the middle which you wouldn't have expected against Mata and last season's Herrera.

[Jordan La Cabra]

Salah appearing in the central forward position for Liverpool a lot today. So far, he's been the brightest spark.

[Mme Erzulie]

Fucking De Gea. 

Also fucking our long range shots.

Nasty bit of business from Lukaku on Lovren, but well enough disguised that I suspect he won't be retroactively punished. 

ManU have got this game exactly where they want it. Pool with possession, not creating much (one proper chance), running out of patience and getting frustrated. Feel like ManU can turn it up a notch in the 2nd half and give us trouble.

[polishgenius]

We need to get Rashford on at some stage, and maybe Lingard. None of Lukaku, Martial or Young are particularly sharp of movement in and around the box, and we need someone who'll create the space for them.

 

eta:

12 minutes ago, Mme Erzulie said:

Nasty bit of business from Lukaku on Lovren, but well enough disguised that I suspect he won't be retroactively punished. 

 

Yeah, I agree, the best way to disguise something is by not doing it.

[polishgenius]

Phil Jones taking the high boot from Darmian like a boss.

[Jordan La Cabra]

This game has shown how much of a miss Pogba is. Herrera and Matic really haven't offered much going forwards in midfield. Pogba's passing range and dribbling might have helped link the midfield to Lukaku today.

[Mark Antony]

Yet another super frustrating Liverpool game. Went about as expected. Pretty similar to last years game at Anfield. Exactly what Mourinho wanted. Cant even remember United even trying to score in that second half. 

Really could have used the fucking three points. 

[Philokles]

2 hours ago, Rorshach said:

Remember Horvath when he was playing for Molde in Norway. I think he was 18 when he debuted (think I was at that game, actually, a friend is a Molde supporter and dragged me to a cup game nearby. Molde’s rather hapless first choice was injured, and Horvath came on).

He looked good then - still raw and made a few positional mistakes and blunders, but I remember thinking he could have a bright future if he contiuned to improve. Where does he play now?

No 1 at Club Brugge now. A step down on Howard and Guzan at their peak, but should be ahead of the MLS guys for his ambition if nothing else. 

[Consigliere]

Completely predictable and utterly dreary. I expect that Mourinho was not even bothered about trying to win this game and so he got the result he wanted. Mkhi has been poor for the last 4-5 games now (I'd rather start Mata at #10) and Herrera is a shadow of the player of last season (completely justified that Fellaini is ahead of him in the queue).

A small plus is that Martial has really improved the defensive side of his game - too bad the tactics called for him to play more as an auxiliary LB rather than designed to put him in positions where he could actually hurt a dodgy Liverpool defence. Feel sorry for Lukaku - I expect there will be a bunch of stories cropping up concerning his goal scoring record against the top 6. Unfortunately for him, he used to be left completely isolated with little to no support in these games at Everton and it looks like it will be the same story at United.

 

ETA. Palace have finally scored a goal. They have been the better side so far.