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Football: International Break-Up


Jordan La Cabra

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4 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Mancini? Pellegrini? Tuchel? Ancelotti???

Tuchel is waiting for a bigger gig, I think. Afaik he was offered to take over Leverkusen at the beginning of the season (which would translate to EL or CL football if they play a normal season). He turned them down, because that would've been a step back from Dortmund in his opinion (so they went for Herrlich). So I don't see the appeal for him to take charge at Everton. Though it would be kinda funny, as some of the boarders here would get to check for themselves, whether he is way less charismatic and communicative than Guardiola as I said (which PG questioned as hardly possible if my memory is correct). Anyway, I think something of the size of Arsenal might be more tempting for him. Besides, last thing I heard, was him being linked to a job in China.

 

4 hours ago, The Winged Shadow said:

Lovren had his shot and he hasn't improved over the last 2 years. I think it's time to give Gomez a go at CB while Lovren gets his shit together. Gomez will no doubt make mistakes as well (as he already did this game!) but at least he looks like someone who will learn and get better and is worth the punt (IMO). Lovren and Klavan are too old to expect any big improvements. With Gomez, at least you have hope that he will get better with experience and age.

Only positive I can find is that they still kept playing and trying to score even after being 4-1 down. They had some nice moments and some nice chances but not clear cut enough to get back against Spurs. And Spurs always looked comfortable even when seemingly under pressure for short periods.

Yes, the positive for our resident scousers is, that their team/locker room seems functional, and they didn't resign. However, their back four really needs addressing. That much is clear now. Klavan was never meant to be more than a depth signing, Lovren and Moreno however should (under normal circumstances) be on their way out. Btw. the first one was on Gomez, who screwed up the offside trap as RB. When you play for an offside trap, the centrebacks are supposed to be the most deeplying defenders.

4 hours ago, The Winged Shadow said:

Not a lot of positive displays. Mo played well. Ox was pretty good when he came on. Liverpool looked a lot better with pace on both wings. I don't think Winks/Alli/Trippier were particularly phased by Coutinho, who kept the ball well most of the time but couldn't do a whole lot with it.

Which somehow exemplifies the problem at the back four. If you really want to be positive, than Oxlade-Chamberlain was brought on for Klavan to offer something else going forward. However that required a bunch of tactical changes. Namely, Gomez moving to the center, and Can to RB. While Gomez on CB is his natural position, the same really can't be said for Can on RB. I know he sometimes get played there, but it's really not his favorite position. So on a less positive note, that would indicate, that he had no faith in Klavan to fill that role, which leads us again to player recruitment.

But overall you are right, it's a long season with quite a bit of football to be played, and top 6 should be doable. Top four looks a bit like a tall order, as City, United and Spurs have looked much better thus far, which would leave one spot for Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool (alphabetical order). And besides in the CL itself Liverpool is pretty much on course to reach the knock out stage. They could've been in an even better position there, but for their own stupidity.

 

20 hours ago, Mme Erzulie said:

Let Ward have a go (I'm sad to say I don't think Karius is much better than Migs),

No idea how good Ward is. I have seen quite a bit of Karius pre-Liverpool. Believe it, or not, but he is a pretty good goalkeeper actually. However, I still think Timo Horn would have been the better option for Liverpool back then, as I consider him to be better suited for the EPL physique wise. Not that de Gea, Lloris, or Neuer would have been able to salvage a point for Liverpool in that game. Having that said, I don't think Klopp will change goalkeepers. As that has the potential to further destabilize the back four, and I don't think he would do the goalkeeper any favours by bringing them on now.

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7 minutes ago, Notone said:

Btw. the first one was on Gomez, who screwed up the offside trap as RB. When you play for an offside trap, the centrebacks are supposed to be the most deeplying defenders.

There was no reason to be playing an offside trap in the first place though. The initial set piece was a throw in and then it was a nothing chip over the top. Kane's good at a lot of things but he's not that quick, if Lovren's just marking him normally either he wins the ball himself or he gets in the way enough that it's the keepers.

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11 minutes ago, Notone said:

(which PG questioned as hardly possible if my memory is correct).


Yeah, I'm not exactly enamoured of Tuchel - why does he think bigger clubs are going to come in for him? He did nowhere near enough of note for challengers to want to take a punt on his reputation for being an arse!- but I still find this difficult to credit.

I will, however, concede that although he might have all the humanity of a mouldy hamburger, Pep is a much better manager than Tuchel.

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7 hours ago, MercurialCannibal said:

 last night was our final match at rfk. as we expected after missing chance after chance in a first half that ended only 1 up when it should have been 5 red bulls found two goals in the second half and won.

a bullshit red card for our playmaker Acosta should have been overturned by video review but wasn't. 

I will miss the shithole stadium, the partying by the river before the games and jumping and singing with friends. 

this was our final offering to the stadium and team.

 

Nice work. Cheers to the good ol' days and the new ones at your future home. Looking forward to one day making the trip down!

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5 hours ago, The Winged Shadow said:

While Spurs were super clinical with the few chances they created in the first half. I think at the end of the first half it was 3 goal from 5 shots or something. Every fucking team is clinical as hell against us :(

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I wonder why... If only there was a special position in football whose main task was to prevent the opponents from scoring goals.

Firmino was horrid. Even when shit he usually presses and runs around well, but not this game. And quite a few times the Pool wide players crossed the ball with no Firmino in the box to attack it. Sturridge is usually better at sticking around the box. I was hoping he would come on a lot earlier than 75th min. Solanki would've made a good target man as well. But I think playing too many aerial crosses would've played into Spur's counter attacking setup (which they executed with great efficiency whole game).

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Firmino still did an incredible defensive job. I noticed him running down balls that Can or Milner had lost several times. Offensively he was invisible, however.

Can didn't have a good game either. Losing the ball a lot and making some awful passes. Hendo and Milner had middling game.

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Agree that Can was bad. He seems to move in syrup sometimes. I can see Milner's value as a last-resort left back or a hard-working CM against the Maribor's of the world, but he is too old, slow and uninventive for the PL. 

Lovren had his shot and he hasn't improved over the last 2 years. I think it's time to give Gomez a go at CB while Lovren gets his shit together. Gomez will no doubt make mistakes as well (as he already did this game!) but at least he looks like someone who will learn and get better and is worth the punt (IMO). Lovren and Klavan are too old to expect any big improvements. With Gomez, at least you have hope that he will get better with experience and age.

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Agreed.

 

Obviously the result didn't go for us over the last few games, so this result feels like a bigger problem than it actually is. I am not too fussed about the table. I never expected us to be challenging for the title this season, specially considering the recruitment, so I am not too fussed about where we are in the table. The bulk of the season is still ahead and top four is still within reach.

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Not sure I agree with this. This is Klopp's third season (I know the first wasn't a full season), and so far, we seem to have regressed. That is worrying. I still think he's the man for the job, but saying "considering recruitment" as if it's a mitigating factor, when in fact it's the opposite, is slightly disingenuous. Top 4 isn't out of the question yet, but it will be soon if we don't turn things around. The shambolic defence is less noticeable when we're banging in goals, but we're not free-scoring at the moment (Maribor aside), and Klopp needs to find a way to turn this around. We have one win in the last six in the PL, and the only other victory we have was against Maribor. It's not looking good right now, and I'm interested to see how Klopp will deal with this. Honeymoon period is definitely over.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Notone said:

Tuchel is waiting for a bigger gig, I think. Afaik he was offered to take over Leverkusen at the beginning of the season (which would translate to EL or CL football if they play a normal season). He turned them down, because that would've been a step back from Dortmund in his opinion (so they went for Herrlich). So I don't see the appeal for him to take charge at Everton. Though it would be kinda funny, as some of the boarders here would get to check for themselves, whether he is way less charismatic and communicative than Guardiola as I said (which PG questioned as hardly possible if my memory is correct). Anyway, I think something of the size of Arsenal might be more tempting for him. Besides, last thing I heard, was him being linked to a job in China.

I actually thought Koeman took the Everton job to position himself as the manager of quite a big English club, so that if he did well with it, he'd be in with a chance for the Arsenal job when Wenger eventually steps aside. Obviously, Koeman has botched that job, but if Tuchel is looking to get a crack at a big English club like Arsenal, I reckon he'd have to be in the Premier League first, or else take another big job in Europe and actually do exceptionally well, for I don't believe his time at Dortmund would be enough to get him a massive PL club like the Arsenal, but it would definitely be enough to get him a respected PL club like Everton.

They've shown they are willing to spend. And surely, come January/next summer, the new manager will have even more to spend to try fix this mess that they are in. Wouldn't be bad a choice for him if he wants to crack the PL. But maybe he's saving himself to see what happens at Bayern? Although his fall out with his Dortmund bosses likely hasn't impressed the bosses at Bayern.

But, overall, I agree with Polish that he hasn't done enough to warrant challengers looking at him. Maybe it's just the way the media portray him, but he appears to have an opinion of himself that is higher than he deserves.

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1 hour ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I actually thought Koeman took the Everton job to position himself as the manager of quite a big English club, so that if he did well with it, he'd be in with a chance for the Arsenal job when Wenger eventually steps aside. Obviously, Koeman has botched that job, but if Tuchel is looking to get a crack at a big English club like Arsenal, I reckon he'd have to be in the Premier League first, or else take another big job in Europe and actually do exceptionally well, for I don't believe his time at Dortmund would be enough to get him a massive PL club like the Arsenal, but it would definitely be enough to get him a respected PL club like Everton.

They've shown they are willing to spend. And surely, come January/next summer, the new manager will have even more to spend to try fix this mess that they are in. Wouldn't be bad a choice for him if he wants to crack the PL. But maybe he's saving himself to see what happens at Bayern? Although his fall out with his Dortmund bosses likely hasn't impressed the bosses at Bayern.

But, overall, I agree with Polish that he hasn't done enough to warrant challengers looking at him. Maybe it's just the way the media portray him, but he appears to have an opinion of himself that is higher than he deserves.

Turned Bayern down apparently as Rummenigge wanted him but Hoeneß only reluctantly agreed. After the division at BVB he wanted to go somewhere he had 100% backing. He seemingly is waiting for Conte to leave at the end of the season and will then go to Chelsea. To me that is the right calibre of move for him next - still needs some more time at big clubs before a super one despite Barcelona's alleged interest.

One manager I'd like to see back at a Premier League or Bundesliga club as we come into sacking season is Roger Schmidt. Probably a better idea for a side struggling to score rather than defend, however. His last season at Leverkusen is probably the closest parallel to Liverpool yesterday I can think of but his first couple of years and spell at RB Salzburg (kickstarting Mane and Kampl's careers) show he is better than China.

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I guess my biggest fear (well, outside of rehiring Moyes) would be that Rhino takes over, gets the team fighting and produces enough good results to get offered the position permanently.

Then, predictably, he falls through. Happens to often. Word is that Rhino is highly regarded at Everton, with the work he’s done with the U23s, but - like the U23s themselves - the step up doesn’t come automatically.

On the plus side with him taking over, we have the fact that he has helped develop several of our now first-teamers (Holgate, Kenny, Davies, Lookman, DCL).

Also worth mentioning (well, not really, but virtual ink is cheap) is that he played for two seasons together with this young prodigy named Wayne Looney or something. Well, he was in the squad, anyway. 

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3 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

It's funny, but it shouldn't actually count as a goal in a shoot-out, it's only a goal for a penalty kick during regular play.  In a shoot-out, once the ball stops going forward the penalty is over.  So if it rebounds off the post back onto the goalkeeper and then goes in, it should not stand as a goal.  Unless the rule has changed since I was a kid.  Same applies here.

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7 hours ago, Rorshach said:

Everton part ways with Koeman.

Not surprising, given the absolutely awful start we’ve had to the season. Will Unsy take over as caretaker? I think that would make sense short term, but I don’t see him as a long term answer. 

Is Pulis available? No? What about Pardew or Allardici? Anyone I’m forgetting?

Am I the only one who is surprised?  I know Everton have been struggling badly but Koeman is a very good manager and it's very early in the season.  He salvaged Southampton's last couple of seasons despite terrible turnover in players and some long goalless droughts.  Everton could end up with a downgrade in the manager role and still have the same holes in the playing squad.

I know they'll get some new-manager bounce that will make me look silly, but none of the alternatives seem like a better long term manager than Koeman.

I'm sure Tim Sherwood will try to persuade us that he is being unfairly overlooked.

 

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1 hour ago, Iskaral Pust said:

It's funny, but it shouldn't actually count as a goal in a shoot-out, it's only a goal for a penalty kick during regular play.  In a shoot-out, once the ball stops going forward the penalty is over.  So if it rebounds off the post back onto the goalkeeper and then goes in, it should not stand as a goal.  Unless the rule has changed since I was a kid.  Same applies here.


That's actually not true. From wiki:

 

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A kick is successful if, having been touched once by the kicker, the ball crosses the goal line between the goal posts and under the crossbar, without touching any player, official, or outside agent other than the defending goalkeeper. The ball may touch the goalkeeper, goal posts, or crossbar any number of times before going into the goal as long as the referee believes the ball's motion is the result of the initial kick. This was clarified after an incident in the 1986 World Cup shoot-out between Brazil and France. Bruno Bellone's kick rebounded out off the post, hit goalkeeper Carlos's back, and subsequently bounced into the goal. Referee Ioan Igna gave the goal to France, and Brazil captain Edinho was booked for protesting that the kick should have been considered a miss as soon as it rebounded off the post. In 1987, the International Football Association Board clarified Law 14, covering penalty kicks, to support Igna's decision.

 

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3 hours ago, polishgenius said:


That's actually not true. From wiki:
 

That's really interesting because the opposite was taught as late as 1990, citing the same incident in the 1986 World Cup to explain the difference between the rule for shoot-outs versus regular play.  And that was from FAI-badged coaches, not just someone's dad.  You would think the 1987 clarification would have been fresh in mind and unambiguous. 

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7 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Am I the only one who is surprised?  

Yes.

On a serious note, it doesn't sound like Koeman ever really fully committed to Everton. Also, Soton didn't seem too bothered losing him either ( per plenty of journalists, though it's possible that isn't worth much) 

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I think re: Koeman that it’s  damning that he really didn’t seem like he had any sort of plan after the City game. Since then, we’ve had several games where we’ve lost badly, line-up changes constantly, changes in personel .. and it all looks (from the outside) rather desperate.  Like Koeman knows he’s in trouble, sees (like everyone else) that things aren’t working, but has been unable to find a plan for how to solve it.

I think everything would look different if people could see some sort of plan, some kind of long term idea - but, instead, the games I’ve seen look like desperation from the manager. Hoping that he would get it right. 

We may end up worse, no doubt, but I think it’s eminently possible we’ll end up better as well.

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11 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

It's funny, but it shouldn't actually count as a goal in a shoot-out, it's only a goal for a penalty kick during regular play.  In a shoot-out, once the ball stops going forward the penalty is over.  So if it rebounds off the post back onto the goalkeeper and then goes in, it should not stand as a goal.  Unless the rule has changed since I was a kid.  Same applies here.

You're mixing up ice hockey penalty shootout rules with football's. ;) 

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Here is a small random question to you guys : do you think that Tottenham is stepping up this season ? At this point, Spurs are sharing the first place of their UCL group with Real, and challenging for title race. They have a good attack when Dele & Kane are in form, a great GK, an even better defence than last year's, a strong midfield (although technically weaker that United's and City's IMO), and good soldiers with Son, Dembele, Wanyama. Not to mention Eriksen who is one of the most underrated player in the league.

I do know that's the sort of question that it raised almost every year (a bit like "is it Liverpool's year ?" lol), but still, I would like to have your opinion on Tottenham's matter, if it has not been too much discussed before.

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1 minute ago, Sandokan I Ironborn said:

Here is a small random question to you guys : do you think that Tottenham is stepping up this season ?

If they had been going into this season playing at White Hart Lane, I would say they would have been the favourites for the title. The fact they lost none of their key players - they were happy enough to let Kyle Walker go - and made some wise signings has made their squad look more complete than it was last season. The Wembley situation was the big question mark. Winning against Liverpool so convincingly at Wembley on Sunday could have been a massive moment for them. I believe the title race will be between Tottenham and Man City this year.

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14 minutes ago, Sandokan I Ironborn said:

Here is a small random question to you guys : do you think that Tottenham is stepping up this season ?

I wouldn't actually say they have stepped up their performance this year. I think what they've done is take their good performances into Europe this year and not regress significantly on last year.

The good thing for Spurs is that Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal all look worse than last year at the moment and while United have started well they've also had comfortably the easiest start so they might be a bit of a paper tiger. On top of that Alli really hasn't been playing that well so there's room for improvement there. The problem is how good City have looked.

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