Football: International Break-Up

[Jordan La Cabra]

Strachan axed. .   

Seems a tad harsh. I know he didn't take them to a tournament, but he did take them pretty close to the play offs this time around; he also seemed pretty popular with the players.

Anyway, the club football resumes...

[mormont]

It would be harsh to sack Strachan if this had been his first and only campaign. But he had two shots at it, which is about as much as anyone gets without succeeding these days. I've said before I'm sceptical that anybody else will do a better job so I wouldn't have minded if he'd stayed on, but by the same token there is a good argument for moving on. And I think he recognised that himself, which is why this is listed as 'by mutual consent'.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

So Wenger notes that Özil and Sanchez might be sold in January. And Coutinho hopes to join Barca then (act two in the saga?).

[Philokles]

Not sure Strachan is an especially good manager, but Scotland did overperform in World Cup qualifying. Coming so close the playoff is credible when they lacked the individual quality of Hamsik, Oblak or Kampl like the Slovenians and Slovakians had with the rest of the squads being much of a muchness.

 

We must be the first club in history to sack our caretaker manager for poor results. No doubt we'll pick another ex-player/manager off the merry-go round for their fourth spell at the club.

[Jordan La Cabra]

Who is in the mix to replace Strachan? Or who would be your preference, @mormont? 

I haven't heard many names mentioned, and off the top of my head, I can't think of many that would suit the job right now.

Big Sam, maybe? They could do a lot worse, and he may be tempted to come out of retirement for international management. 

 

@Horse of Kent, from your second paragraph, I was trying to work out which manager or team you are referring to but I've got nothing. Could you enlighten me?

[mormont]

We could absolutely not do worse than Big Sam. What would be the point in hiring a washed-up braggart who attracts negative publicity with every self-deluding utterance? Why on Earth would he care for the job anyway?

Seriously, we might as well appoint Sepp Blatter.

I don't know who's out there and interested and better than Strachan, as I've said before. All of the names in the press are utterly dreary. Moyes? McLeish for a second spell? Lambert? Malky fucking Mackay? Ugh. Hopefully these are just the product of journalists with copy to file and no better ideas off-hand.

McInnes is probably not interested but would be a good pick.

[Jordan La Cabra]

Well, he's a football manager that has a good record of getting decent results out of average sides. Strachan said that Scotland were disadvantaged by their genetic make up, so often conceded from set pieces. You have a feeling that big Sam might be able to find a remedy for that. During his brief spell as England manager, he had a look at what players not born in England that could be available to call up - Steven N'zonzi was one - so he'd have no problem carrying on Scotland's grand job of poaching English players not good enough to play for England but has a great granny that came from Dundee. (And yes, I do know the IFA are brilliant at that, too.)

Not one of those managers you listed come close to big Sam, in my eyes. Moyes during his Everton days, maybe, but whatever he touches now falls to an arse. One of Lambert, McLeish and Mackay would be a wiser choice than Moyes, which says it all.

McInnes would be the best choice from that list, as he hasn't seen his career take a nose dive like the rest, but leaving an Aberdeen team that he's doing well with for the Scottish national team might be the way to take that dive.

So compared, big Sam mightn't be that bad a choice. I doubt he's even in the running, but he's available and has shown before he'd like a crack at international management. Oh, and he likes money.

If not, they could always try tempt Sir Alex out of retirement...

[polishgenius]

10 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Strachan said that Scotland were disadvantaged by their genetic make up,

Strachan was joking. It's what he does. Probably better than management...


I do think Big Sam would be a good manager for Scotland but I can't imagine that Scotland would want him or that he'd want the job.



I can't agree that any of the three you named would be better than Moyes, though. I mean fucking hell, Poison Malky, whose only time in management since leaving Cardiff and the racism coming out has been a miserable time at Wigan? He's been sitting on his arse since then, helping preside over this whole mess as Scotland's performance director. And McLeish's recent record has been a string of failures in less exacting circumstances than Moyes', just out of the spotlight.

[Iskaral Pust]

Mane is injured and out for six weeks.  We're always poor after international breaks but this will be a shit show.

[Philokles]

1 hour ago, JordanJH1993 said:

@Horse of Kent, from your second paragraph, I was trying to work out which manager or team you are referring to but I've got nothing. Could you enlighten me?

Gillingham

[Jordan La Cabra]

Don't think Strachan was entirely joking. He did reference that the height of his players hindered them when it came to defending set pieces, which they are actually poor at. The choice of words and the 'marrying big men with big women' part was a joke but I think he was being serious somewhere in his point.

I don't know, I just look at Moyes and see someone who doesn't look like he could inspire a pub team, never mind a group of professional footballers. There's nothing appealing or interesting about the man.

After all, Moyes admitting Sunderland were in a relegation battle in the second week of last season is just about the least inspiring comment I've ever heard from a manager. Closely followed by Gareth Southgate admitting that some of the England players in the most recent squad didn't deserve a call up.

[mormont]

10 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Well, he's a football manager that has a good record of getting decent results out of average sides.

Had. And frankly that's not so much a record as a reputation, and a chunk of that reputation derives from friendly press coverage. Allardyce's statistics, his 100% England record aside (:p), have been in decline for some time: he lost 50% of his matches with Crystal Palace, for example, and that team had a lot more potential than this Scotland side. Oh, and ask West Ham fans how good Allardyce is at coaching to defend set pieces. They'll be happy to enlighten you.

10 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Not one of those managers you listed come close to big Sam, in my eyes.

Malky Mackay does, surely? He also is a dinosaur in every conceivable way who offers nothing to Scotland except ego, outdated ideas and the guarantee of a PR disaster sooner rather than later.

The others aren't close, no, in that appointing them would not be close to being so retrograde and stupid as appointing Allardyce would be. Moyes, for example, would not progress the side but at least he also wouldn't be corrupt.

[Jordan La Cabra]

Friendly press coverage? Big Sam has spent his career being criticised for all the things you have listed: 'dinosaur', 'outdated ideas', 'inflated ego', 'corrupt', 'guarantee of a PR disaster'. Not to mention being called a 'long ball merchant', a man who coaches football from '19th century'. You do remember the press coverage around the time where he lost the England job? Even taking that away, rarely has an English manager faced so much criticism or ridicule throughout their career as Allardyce has. To think he gets 'friendly press' baffles me.

The fact is that Crystal Palace weren't in a good position when they brought him in. He had one job; keep them up. He did that, with them finishing 14th and beating Chelsea - the champions last season - 2-1 at Stamford Bridge and Arsenal 3-0 at home. Those are decent results from an average side; considering that was his most recent job, I'd say the reputation is 'has', not 'had'.

His West Ham days may not have been his best period, but looking at the club now, are they any better than they were under him? Other than a brilliant Dimitri Payet intervention in 15/16, I'd say no.

I'm not even that fond of Allardyce - though, it may now seem I am some kind of fan-boy. I just think he's a better manager than you've made him out to be.

[mormont]

Allardyce, like Redknapp, has spent his career complaining about bad press coverage while simultaneously being touted for every job going by his pals who have punditry gigs and having every good result praised to the high heavens. Using the '19th century' quote, by the way, is being disingenuous: that wasn't a thing said about him by the press, but by another manager. As for the press over him losing the England job, of course it was negative! He'd been an idiot! Yet after a short period out of the spotlight, he's back being touted for jobs.

Of all current managers, bar none, Allardyce gets the friendliest press in England, particularly from the old-boy network. His time at Crystal Palace is a good example. Pardew had put them in a spin, sure, but any competent manager could and should have kept them up. Yet it's touted as a miracle, and don't mention the terrible run when he took over.

Bolton-era Allardyce was a good manager, but those days are long gone. Nowadays, what you have is a dinosaur loaded down with baggage and cruising on a reputation. Any other manager in his position would not have got the England job, and he shouldn't get the Scotland job either. It's a terrible idea. If he does get it, I will not be watching (for the six months before he's sacked for whatever corrupt antics he gets up to).

ETA - the mere fact that you're referring to him as 'Big Sam', an affectionate nickname that he is universally addressed with in the football press, shows how pervasive and positive his coverage is. He's a character! Big Sam! What a guy, eh?

[Jordan La Cabra]

Which 'old pals' do you mean, though? Merson seems to think highly of him, but this is the same man that was recently quoted saying that if Arsene Wenger had Harry Redknapp's tactical nous, Arsenal would have won a lot more league titles.

Last month, Allardyce was on MNF with Jamie Carragher, who seemed to be buttering him up. I know when these managers are brought on shows like this, it is usually set up to show them in good light, but some of the things Allardyce was talking about, from a tactical point of view, was extremely insightful. After all, he was one of the few managers to outfox Antonio Conte last season, and when he spoke of how he did it, I was thinking, 'this guy isn't the dinosaur people make him out to be'.

I don't think you have to worry much about Allardyce getting the job, by the way. I was just thinking of who might be the best available British football manager. And given some of the options, he still remains that. Just not for this job.

[Jordan La Cabra]

Well, @mormont, it's not Allardyce, but it is Mackay - on an interim basis, at least.

Gareth Southgate was given the England job on an interim basis, too, but managed to bag himself the role on a permanent basis. Who knows what an impressive victory over the crestfallen Dutch next month could bring???

[Calibandar]

Still a bit depressed about it. Luxemburg, a hardy opponent who held France at 0-0 a few weeks ago, now crushed by Sweden in a ridiculous 8-0 shit show which means Holland, despite beating Sweden and having the better mano-e-mano result, goes out on goal difference. On the one hand the Dutch team didn't play as well as they could and should have, and on the other hand, all things that could have conspired against them did ( an incorrectly disallowed goal against Sweden in extra time that would have won us both games against them, Luxemburg suddenly turning into tiny little boys, Hugo Lloris giving away not 1 but 3 points to Sweden with his extra time kick that left the goal exposed and flabbergasted the French nation; France showing up for only two games this qualifiying series and that was against us, etc ). And thus we finished 3rd behind a mediocre Swedish team who we were better than, away and at home.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Why wasn't Lennon a candidate? Or is he too Celtic?

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 minute ago, Calibandar said:

Still a bit depressed about it. Luxemburg, a hardy opponent who held France at 0-0 a few weeks ago, now crushed by Sweden in a ridiculous 8-0 shit show which means Holland, despite beating Sweden and having the better mano-e-mano result, goes out on goal difference. On the one hand the Dutch team didn't play as well as they could and should have, and on the other hand, all things that could have conspired against them did ( an incorrectly disallowed goal against Sweden in extra time that would have won us both games against them, Luxemburg suddenly turning into tiny little boys, Hugo Lloris giving away not 1 but 3 points to Sweden with his extra time kick that left the goal exposed and flabbergasted the French nation; France showing up for only two games this qualifiying series and that was against us, etc ). And thus we finished 3rd behind a mediocre Swedish team who we were better than, away and at home.

Overall, it was much Robben, and very little of everything else.

[Jordan La Cabra]

1 hour ago, Notone said:

Why wasn't Lennon a candidate? Or is he too Celtic?

Strachan used to manage Celtic. Many Celtic players play for Scotland; Scott Brown and Leigh Griffifths are two of the prominent men in the Celtic team and they're key players for Scotland. Lennon being ex Celtic player and manager shouldn't go against him.

Though, he is quite a divisive figure in his own right. When he moved from Leicester to Celtic, Northern Ireland fans turned on him, sent him death threats and he had to quit the national team. Rangers fans also loathe the sight of him. The sectarian abuse he has suffered of the years has been undeserved, but he's had such a troubled history with Protestants and Rangers fans that the SFA probably look at it like by appointing him, they'd lose the support of the Rangers fans, who hate the man.

Rangers fans don't like Brown or Griffifths, but they're not going to stop following the team if these two players aren't playing for it. Might be a different case if Lennon was their manager.