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Best ASoIaF player


Tygett Lannister

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2 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Absolutely!  She is the best player.  Better than any on that list.  That list is incomplete because the creator of the poll left out the most capable power player in the great game.  Daenerys.

Cant tell if this is sarcasm or ...

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8 hours ago, Tygett Greenshield said:

Cant tell if this is sarcasm or ...

Dany has played:

- Khal Drogo's bloodriders

- the Wizards of Qarth

- the Masters of Astapor

- Illyrio Mopatis

- the Masters of Mereen

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10 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Absolutely!  She is the best player.  Better than any on that list.  That list is incomplete because the creator of the poll left out the most capable power player in the great game.  Daenerys.

Yeah, like who else played themeselves an army of unsullied? :D 

Compared with Doran... :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Sigella said:

Dany has played:

- Khal Drogo's bloodriders

- the Wizards of Qarth

- the Masters of Astapor

- Illyrio Mopatis

- the Masters of Mereen

How did she play bloodriders?

Her dragon burned them wow #outplayed.

I don't know what masters of Astapor were thinking, like it is that easy to tame a dragon, that was just stupidity on their part.

She is surrounded by his spys and somehow she is playing him.

Again they actually outplayed her.

All Dany achieved was with brute force of her dragons. Sorry she is not a player, just a arrogant girl with 3 dragons that thinks Iron Throne belongs to her and wants it like a child wants a new toy. She might have a good heart but she has no feeling for politics.

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1 hour ago, Tygett Greenshield said:

How did she play bloodriders?

Her dragon burned them wow #outplayed.

I don't know what masters of Astapor were thinking, like it is that easy to tame a dragon, that was just stupidity on their part.

She is surrounded by his spys and somehow she is playing him.

Again they actually outplayed her.

All Dany achieved was with brute force of her dragons. Sorry she is not a player, just a arrogant girl with 3 dragons that thinks Iron Throne belongs to her and wants it like a child wants a new toy. She might have a good heart but she has no feeling for politics.

Bloodriders: She took their "spoils" and got away with it, she got injured Drogo maegi-help against their wishes, she escapes joining the DK (blood riders duty to bring her there).

Wizards: She burned them and their home when they tried to kill her

Astapor: if it doesn't count because they are stupid I see fit to ask you what LF ever did to deserve a place?

Illyrio: he sold her the the Dothraki, sent boats to take her to Pentos - and she sold them and their content.

Mereen: then why is she still ruling queen? why isnt slavery booming?

 

Dany has no feeling for politics? Is this sarcasm?

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2 hours ago, Tygett Greenshield said:

How did she play bloodriders?

Her dragon burned them wow #outplayed.

I don't know what masters of Astapor were thinking, like it is that easy to tame a dragon, that was just stupidity on their part.

She is surrounded by his spys and somehow she is playing him.

Again they actually outplayed her.

All Dany achieved was with brute force of her dragons. Sorry she is not a player, just a arrogant girl with 3 dragons that thinks Iron Throne belongs to her and wants it like a child wants a new toy. She might have a good heart but she has no feeling for politics.

Daenerys took an adverse situation, getting forced to marry into the Dothraki, and won over their leader, Khal Drogo.  She not only survived but thrived.  She took the initiative and hatched dragons and brought them back into the world.  She won over the loyalties of Jorah Mormont.  She won over her Bloodriders.  She won the loyalty and respect of both Barristan and Belwas.  She handily outsmarted the slave masters of Astapor and won over the unsullied.  

Aegon 5 tried to hatch dragon eggs, sacrificed many lives to do it, and failed.  Daenerys succeeded.  She is not only a great player but she's a winner. 

Best Players in the Game of Power

  1. Daenerys
  2. Mance
  3. Tywin
  4. Walder
  5. Roose
  6. Renly
  7. Tyrion
  8. Varys
  9. Petyr B.
  10. Green Grace
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While Mance did an extraordinary thing uniting the wildlings, his place is not here in my opinion. He united them on a basis that was very rational and has too much sense to categorize him as a "player". Not saying that he is stupid or unintelligent though. 

Also Daenerys. She listens too much to other people's advices and has a plot armor called Dragons.

 

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On October 13, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Tygett Greenshield said:

Quentyn's mission did not necessarily fail, he is trying to steal a dragon not marry Dany and he is still alive.

The whole Myrcella thing maybe?

Qyburn is sabotaging Cersei and he is Doran's man.

Doran is everywhere, he is just so good nobody sees him.

Doran plan was to have Quentyn marry Dany and bring her back to Westeros, not to steal a dragon. Doran plan failed there and his son died. Which Myrcella thing?  We don't know who Doran's man is right now. What has Qyburn done to Cersei that makes you feel like he's Doran's man?

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6 hours ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

Doran plan was to have Quentyn marry Dany and bring her back to Westeros, not to steal a dragon. Doran plan failed there and his son died. Which Myrcella thing?  We don't know who Doran's man is right now. What has Qyburn done to Cersei that makes you feel like he's Doran's man?

You should probably watch Preston Jacobs Deeper Dorne series. 

We don't know what Doran's plan is but I find it highly unlikely that Quentyn was supposed to succeed. The Yronwoods are one of the least loyal houses in Dorne. It would be like Ned Stark sending Bran on a quest with the Boltons. Or the Tully's sending Edmure on a quest with the Freys. Quentyn is only fostered with them to avoid a war when Oberyn killed their previous lord. Everything about Quentyn's quest is wrong. It's a terrible plan based on an extremely dodgy marriage pact supposedly signed by a castellan who wouldn't even have the power to make such a pact. None of it makes sense. You can't take ASoIAF at face value in my opinion. If something clearly doesn't make sense you have to look beneath the surface. 

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15 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Daenerys took an adverse situation, getting forced to marry into the Dothraki, and won over their leader, Khal Drogo.  She not only survived but thrived.  She took the initiative and hatched dragons and brought them back into the world.  She won over the loyalties of Jorah Mormont.  She won over her Bloodriders.  She won the loyalty and respect of both Barristan and Belwas.  She handily outsmarted the slave masters of Astapor and won over the unsullied.  

Aegon 5 tried to hatch dragon eggs, sacrificed many lives to do it, and failed.  Daenerys succeeded.  She is not only a great player but she's a winner. 

Best Players in the Game of Power

  1. Daenerys
  2. Mance
  3. Tywin
  4. Walder
  5. Roose
  6. Renly
  7. Tyrion
  8. Varys
  9. Petyr B.
  10. Green Grace

No, she didn't win over Khal Drogo, they fell in love, same goes for Jorah Mormont pedophile he is he loves her that is why he is serving her. All her power in among Dothraki came from fear of Drogo, even when he was sick they still respected him and feared he might come to strength and punish those who disobeyed his beloved wife. She won over her Bloodriders because she came out of fire alive. Belwas is Illyrio's spy if you haven't noticed. As I said their move was stupid so yes she did outsmart them but I wouldn't congratulate you when you beat imbecile in a game of chess. Astapor masters were greedy and wanted that priceless dragon, yet they knew nothing of dragons nor of Daenerys. Unsullied serve her because they were raised to serve thier master and masters of Astapor proclaimed her their master. You really think someone who is brainwashed since they can remember followed Danaerys because of a abstract thing called freedom of which they know nothing. Barristan might feel guilty that he let Aerys II die and wants to redeem himself by serving Dany, he also loves serving and being a kingsguard sees great honor in it, and he sees Dany for what he wants to see her a good hearten Queen that will bring good old times to Westeros.

There is a great theory on dragon genetics which explains rise and fall of dragon population. Basis is Mendelian genetics, x - sex chromosome (XY - man, XX woman) carries ability to ride a dragon and if you have two such x genes (which is only possible if you are a woman) you can hatch the dragon eggs.

So what we can conclude from your explanation is that you are a good player if:

- You have unique sexy looks.

- Have heat resistance ability.

- Can outsmart stupid people.

- You don't have a sausage and two eggs between your legs and have special genes.

- Have 3 dragons (a.k.a. be the only person on the planet that has 3 nuclear bombs that only follow her orders).

All of the listed comes from how she was born (apart from outsmarting stupid people) and I don't think GRRM is trying to tell us people that are born into position/with great genes are the best and the smartest.

16 hours ago, Sigella said:

Mereen: then why is she still ruling queen? why isnt slavery booming?

Because she seats there with 3 dragons and best army in Slaver's bay. Cities she left behind are either a bloodbath or again adopted slavery. Only reason she doesn't leaves Mereen is because Slavery would return there as soon as her army and dragons left.

16 hours ago, Sigella said:

Astapor: if it doesn't count because they are stupid I see fit to ask you what LF ever did to deserve a place?

Because he can manipulate the smartest people in Kingslanding not only stupid people?

16 hours ago, Sigella said:

Wizards: She burned them and their home when they tried to kill her

No. Her dragon burned them she literally did nothing she even didn't give an order. It is like saying Bran outplayed the guy with dragger because his dire-wolf saved him. Even if she passed the order to Drogon to burn them, what else was she supposed to do: yes wizards kill me, Drogon stand aside. Self-defense is something every person has in his nature.

16 hours ago, Sigella said:

Illyrio: he sold her the the Dothraki, sent boats to take her to Pentos - and she sold them and their content.

Illyrio is rich, he tryed to get hold of Dany again but it just failed, it is not like Illyrio would do something Dany would want him. She didn't play Illyrio, rather Illyrio didn't play her because it is hard to manipulate someone who you haven't seen in a two years (and is still developing personality) and is on the other side of the world. Illyrio just tried it, he lost nothing.

16 hours ago, Sigella said:

Bloodriders: She took their "spoils" and got away with it, she got injured Drogo maegi-help against their wishes, she escapes joining the DK (blood riders duty to bring her there).

As I said they were sacred of Drogo, she convinced Drogo to accept maegi's help because he loved her it is not like he was unconscious and she would go be able to go against the will of his Bloodriders.

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I give Daenerys a little bit of credit she shows some potential. All her "I may be a young girl unskilled in the art of X but" lines are always pretty good but she's almost always entirely reactive. Something happens and she makes a quick decision sometimes rightly sometimes wrongly. The whole reason she's in Meereen is because she lacks a cohesive plan. She's still pondering if she should stay or go home. She's still just a piece who could easily be moved by a real player.

A player has a strategy, they move pieces when they want them moved. They plan 3 moves ahead at all times. They have contingency plans for when stuff goes wrong.

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47 minutes ago, Banner Without Brothers said:

I give Daenerys a little bit of credit she shows some potential. All her "I may be a young girl unskilled in the art of X but" lines are always pretty good but she's almost always entirely reactive. Something happens and she makes a quick decision sometimes rightly sometimes wrongly. The whole reason she's in Meereen is because she lacks a cohesive plan. She's still pondering if she should stay or go home. She's still just a piece who could easily be moved by a real player.

A player has a strategy, they move pieces when they want them moved. They plan 3 moves ahead at all times. They have contingency plans for when stuff goes wrong.

Of course she can become a player but untill now she was just a strong pawn. I don't think she ever will become a player though.

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Cersei

Probably not the best but played the King and the Hand.

Plays Jaime

Shat on the Tyrell Queen, might have back fired but still on top.  Either you win or you die, and she is not dead despite her walk of shame.

Tyrion saves the city and his whore gets scourged and he rotts out of sight in some small cell.  Fuck with Cersei at your peril.

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6 hours ago, Tygett Greenshield said:

Of course she can become a player but untill now she was just a strong pawn. I don't think she ever will become a player though.

Why do a poll if you dont care what the respondants views are?

Who are you to decide who counts and not?

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15 hours ago, Banner Without Brothers said:

You should probably watch Preston Jacobs Deeper Dorne series. 

We don't know what Doran's plan is but I find it highly unlikely that Quentyn was supposed to succeed. The Yronwoods are one of the least loyal houses in Dorne. It would be like Ned Stark sending Bran on a quest with the Boltons. Or the Tully's sending Edmure on a quest with the Freys. Quentyn is only fostered with them to avoid a war when Oberyn killed their previous lord. Everything about Quentyn's quest is wrong. It's a terrible plan based on an extremely dodgy marriage pact supposedly signed by a castellan who wouldn't even have the power to make such a pact. None of it makes sense. You can't take ASoIAF at face value in my opinion. If something clearly doesn't make sense you have to look beneath the surface. 

I don't like Preston Jacobs channel, sorry. We see Doran worried about anyone finding out about Quentyns little trip to Essos but he's going to let Lord Yronwood in on it, why? Whats stopping Lord Yronwood from telling someone about it, like say Cersei. Especially if the Yronwoods aren't loyal to your house, why would Doran even let them in on it. Why send your son to Dany if you thought it wouldn't succeed. Who's Doran playing with this trip if he thought it wouldn't go anywhere? Sometimes a bad plan is just what it looks like, a bad plan. What has Doran Martell done in story that makes you think he belongs in a "best player" talk? 

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1 hour ago, Sigella said:

Why do a poll if you dont care what the respondants views are?

Who are you to decide who counts and not?

Because it is so obvious she is not a top rank player. She is a smart girl but nowhere near having a status of player. How could you ever put Daenerys over someone like Varys or Littelfinger (for example I can see Tywin, Olenna ... being put over them, but not personal opinion). Player is about playing with power not having power, Varys, LF have no to little power but they are good at shifting power that others posses. She has a lot of power but is bad at using it. She is good for a 14 years old that has been abused by her weird brother and sold as a whore and her childhood being running all the time.

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53 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

I don't like Preston Jacobs channel, sorry. We see Doran worried about anyone finding out about Quentyns little trip to Essos but he's going to let Lord Yronwood in on it, why? Whats stopping Lord Yronwood from telling someone about it, like say Cersei. Especially if the Yronwoods aren't loyal to your house, why would Doran even let them in on it. Why send your son to Dany if you thought it wouldn't succeed. Who's Doran playing with this trip if he thought it wouldn't go anywhere? Sometimes a bad plan is just what it looks like, a bad plan. What has Doran Martell done in story that makes you think he belongs in a "best player" talk? 

Well if you aren't willing to listen to a theory than why are you asking what Doran Martell did to be considered good player. I am not going to go and write essay here just because you don't like Preston's channel and don't want to listen to his theory.

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46 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

I don't like Preston Jacobs channel, sorry. We see Doran worried about anyone finding out about Quentyns little trip to Essos but he's going to let Lord Yronwood in on it, why? Whats stopping Lord Yronwood from telling someone about it, like say Cersei. Especially if the Yronwoods aren't loyal to your house, why would Doran even let them in on it. Why send your son to Dany if you thought it wouldn't succeed. Who's Doran playing with this trip if he thought it wouldn't go anywhere? Sometimes a bad plan is just what it looks like, a bad plan. What has Doran Martell done in story that makes you think he belongs in a "best player" talk? 

To be fair Doran is only afraid that once he tells Arianne, she will tell her friends and then it will no longer be a secret. For some reason he cannot trust his 23 year old daughter but he is willing to trust his younger son, a maester, a drinkwater, 2 yronwoods and a wells. He feared that Arianne would tell Tyene and then she would tell Obara and Nym and they would spread the secret. But he seems to trust men that frankly he doesn't know that well. 

So far, Doran's greatest accomplishment is that Tywin appears to be afraid of him

Quote

Doran is a cautious man, a reasoned man, subtle, deliberate, even indolent to a degree. He is a man who weighs the consequences of every word and every action.

 And that GRRM has said that he plays to win, but so did Theon Greyjoy and so does Cersei Lannister, and Varys and Walder Frey. They all play to win. Apart from Roose Bolton, but he is another story.

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1 hour ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

I don't like Preston Jacobs channel, sorry. We see Doran worried about anyone finding out about Quentyns little trip to Essos but he's going to let Lord Yronwood in on it, why? Whats stopping Lord Yronwood from telling someone about it, like say Cersei. Especially if the Yronwoods aren't loyal to your house, why would Doran even let them in on it. Why send your son to Dany if you thought it wouldn't succeed. Who's Doran playing with this trip if he thought it wouldn't go anywhere? Sometimes a bad plan is just what it looks like, a bad plan. What has Doran Martell done in story that makes you think he belongs in a "best player" talk? 

No need to apologise to me, it's no skin off my nose. You asked questions about what Tygett meant and I told you where to find the answers you sought.

Here's the thing we are told by different sources that Doran is a player and we're told how smart he is and that he's a careful planner etc etc. But as we agree his plans all suck big time but we also know that he has a bigger plan but we're given no details about it except that he wanted to take everything from Tywin before killing him. So we have his goal but his entire plan until very recently, a plan 20 years in the making is just marry Arianne to the beggar king Viserys. That's not a bad plan, that's a plan so nonsensical that it could be Hodor's. How can we reconcile that people like Tywin himself think Doran is one of the smartest guys in the realm with this foolishness. Either every character is completely wrong about Dorans wits or it's intentional misdirection. I know what seems more likely to me.

Anyway I think I told you the wrong video anyway. You want The Dornish Master Plan

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