U.S. Politics: We're Saying Merry Christmas, Again

[LongRider]

3 hours ago, Morpheus said:

No Buck Stopping Anytime

The Buck Stops Daily, for Tee Time.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Is Trump Installing a Mole in the Mueller Investigation?

https://newrepublic.com/article/145323/donald-trump-installing-mole-mueller-probe?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

/This sounds like a really stupid idea. So I imagine it's true.

[ThinkerX]

1 hour ago, dmc515 said:

It'll be motorcycles and tiki torches all the way down.

Somebody forgot to mention that the bikers jackets would be adorned with confederate flags and they'd all have swastikas on their helmets.

Plus, they'd be carrying spiked chains with which to flay those on the sidelines - especially lamestream media reporters.

.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

I think Chick Porno Tracks would be divine as Chick Tracts are nearly porno anyway.

Oh yeah, I think they had some version of those. Tijuana Bibles or something? Like little x-rated comic books in tract form.

[LongRider]

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Also, don't forget the picture books. 

They are in the prono stacks.

[ThinkerX]

4 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Is Trump Installing a Mole in the Mueller Investigation?

https://newrepublic.com/article/145323/donald-trump-installing-mole-mueller-probe?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

/This sounds like a really stupid idea. So I imagine it's true.

Imagine said moles second or third report to Trump: 'You will be indicted.'  Then imagine Trumps response on Twitter - and elsewhere.

 

[Shryke]

The funny thing about all these working class whites or whatever that voted for Trump is how much they like to talk about the rhetoric of his they liked and how little they want to talk about anything else he said.

And it's not like directly race-based or anything. In all sorts of interviews and conversations and such when they talk about the issue, either directly with the people in question or with people who talk to them frequently discussing the issue in general, it's often about how "he was really listening" or "he was the first one to speak about the issues I cared about" or "fuck the establishment" or whatever. It's arguments about economics and jobs and all that shit.

But then you ask "Well, what about when he said mexicans were rapists? Or when he admitted to being a sexual predator? Or when he goes off about muslims?" and suddenly they all just wanna change the fucking subject or just shrug.

Cause the truth is that whatever they wanna talk about as their reasons for liking Trump, and you saw it from people on this forum too, it always involves either agreeing with or at the very best just loudly ignoring all the horrible shit he's said and done. Because despite all the whinging about how nobody listens to them, they really don't give a shit about anyone but themselves and were more then willing to let people who weren't them eat a big shit sandwich because Trump made them feel good.

My sympathy meter doesn't register too much here. "Wawawawa, nobody is listening to me and fuck everyone who's not straight, white and christian."

[Yukle]

46 minutes ago, TerraPrime said:

I'd also dispute that "nothing" has been done. The Obamacare alone has helped millions of low-income individuals to get health care. In red states that adopted the expansion, people love it and want it, as long as it's not called "Obamacare." 

As a non-American I can still recall the backlash movement on Twitter saying, "It's called the WHITEhouse."

Racism was central to the anti-Obama campaign, from questioning whether he was even born in the USA to labelling the ACA as "Obamacare" as a rallying point against it.

Red states hated Obama, because he represented their worst fears: an educated and successful young black man (shame he wasn't a woman who also spoke Spanish).

It's no accident that Trump keeps trying to undo Obama's legacy. Partly, his ideology is informed by the racism that drove him to demand a birth certificate, and question how a black man could become President. And it's also a maypole for his voters to dance around: "Look! I am undoing what the black guy did!"

This is supported by the fact that the areas of the USA that Trump swung from the Democrats are not as ethnically diverse as the coasts. They are areas like Pennsylvania and Michigan, where the white men can't believe that they allowed themselves to let a black man command their country on their watch. They held Obama to ridiculous standards that they'd never worry about from a white man (as Trump proves now), supposing that they could vote for Obama if he was a miracle worker but were prepared to turn against him if he made even one compromise or mistake.

And by men, it is men: were the election down entirely to women then Clinton would have won in a crushing landslide.

[LongRider]

3 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

All books that stop at chapter 11

 

+11

 

[LongRider]

2 hours ago, Rippounet said:

If we dismiss the race factor, we're still left with the problem that a significant portion of people keep voting against their self-interest. And then resent the fact that "people in Washington" "ignore" them.

A lot of how these people vote is owed to RW radio and Fox News.  Seriously, those two outlets have brain washed many Americans, fed into their fears and identified their 'enemies' and resentments for them.  Add in the Religious Right of Hate and there are three good reasons they don't realize that they are voting against their self-interest. 

[DanteGabriel]

3 hours ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

I know all about the tragedies that occurring in this presidency. I honestly try and tune it out for the most part and pray for impeachment, but would that even help? Look, I am not a Trump supporter, no matter how much you would like me to be. I am not a racist, or bigot or any of the above. I come from a bi-racial family. I know what the confederate flag means 9 times out of 10 where I'm from. So, paint a picture of me however you like, you're most definitely wrong.

We was discussing white-privledge and all you did was rant on about how I illustrate what's wrong with politics and the normal Trump supporter. Who's shifting goal posts?

White privledge is a dying definition. You have very educated black men and women who say the same. There are just as many poor white people as black, that face every hardship and challenges. Its not 40 years ago, no matter how you slice it. Do I think it exists to an extent? Sure. But, it is not what it once was. And, I'm sorry folks, living in the past is useless. I think that you can find as many areas in America that are a white majority, that face the same economic strains as black areas. Its your never going to hear about Logan County, WV (and there are 1000's of Logan Counties spread across the US.)on the evening news, you will hear about any inner city and problems they face their. What I find so funny is the hypocrisy I see and hear so much, a lot of the time in these very threads. White trash! Uneducated white trailer trash! Would you say the same about black people in inner city Chicago? Or, would you sing a different tune and say that they are fighting a system that keeps them low? Same as any Logan County, WV in America. No jobs. No options. Live in a cycle of poverty. Its so fucking hypocritical, and ignorant that it blows my mind when someone says it. 

Now, when I hear white privledge the only thing that comes to mind to me, is in a nutshell, racial profiling. Which definitely exists and is a struggle only a black man would know.  I've seen with my own eyes. I've also been racial profiled and pulled over for no reason at all, was going to be detained, all because I was in a very poor area Baltimore. I was white trash, with a black man buying drugs. When actually I was with a college friend going to meet his family. And, when I met his family I seen the same thing that I've seen a hundred times in rural WV. Poverty. 10 kids to a house running around with no one looking out for them. Same situation, different locale. 

I read an article on ESPN the other day wrote by a Army Ranger who first discussed with Colin Kaepernick about kneeling. That article really spoke to me. He talked about when he got done a tour how hard it was coming back to a nation that is divided, by red and blue. Where there is non-stop bickering and arguing, and never any coming together to do what's right for America. The arguments practiced over and over on sites such as these. The left blames the right and the right blames the left. And, you take offront to me saying that I am a centrist, that I don't consider myself Dem or Rep. Go on, to basically say that's short hand for a Trump supporter. Your mind is already made, your arguments prepared, your not willing to listen. You know who I am and what I represent already. Just because in don't have statistics and articles bookmarked to provide for you, I am an ignorant fool, who shouldn't dare voice his opinion, easy lunch for the Post-God's. Well, I am not as informed as you or most people in these political thread. I read it to gain a better understanding of events. I hate watching the news, because I hate the bias and the state of the world, it's depressing. But, when I have an opinion I'll voice it. And, rather than going to clipboard to give the same argument I've seen a thousand times, why not just try and look at things from a different perspective? I'm not a Trump supporter, but I know many. And, they're not the people that so many claim them to be. They are simply people that truly feel like they've been ignored for decades. Nothing done to help spur economic growth. Have to drive hour's away or simply work "down the road" to have enough money to support their family. You can give me all your proposals from your favorite politician, but what has been done? Nothing. That's the fact. I don't care if it's Trump, Hillary, W, Bill, Bernie or Obama who has a great idea. Nothing is done. And, people get frustrated. People thought maybe a guy that thumbed his nose at both sides of the fence, might actually get something done. That was their thinking. Sure, then there is a portion that loved the racist rhetoric, of course. That was in display in Charlottesville. 

Last year around this time a man keeled during an NFL game. And, man, was I pissed. I didn't care why, I just was pissed to see someone disrespecting the flag that so many people died for, my brother and grandfather fought for. I got in an argument with one of my closest black friends. We didn't speak for awhile. Then I seen Charlottesville and I understood why he was kneeling and I called my friend and apologized, and said that I'll do my best to see things in another's perspective. I was sorry. That more than anything is what we all need to do. Is try and look at things from another's perspective. Put your arguments on a shelf and try and find a way that we can all prosper and live life a little bit better. Find a way to get past all this hate, wether it's white/black or red/blue. 

I really like the idea that someone proposed. That the 1st step to healing all this hate in this country right now, would be for Kaep and Trump to have a sit down talk on National TV. And, let Kaep express himself face to face. See, what type of blubbering we would get from Trump then. You think he would call him a S.O.B. to his face? I don't. I think he's a coward. But, it would open a whole lot of eyes, that's for sure. No matter how the conversation went.

Sorry, I went off in a twenty different directions. I don't have preconceived arguments and a list of links to defend myself. So, I guess I shouldn't have even expressed my opinions on what I see in my day to day life. I don't feel that your attacking me, but, I do feel that you and others have a mental image of who I am and felt the need to clarify myself and maybe just get a little bit of frustration off my chest. Thanks if you took the time to read this. I hope and pray that this country finds a way to come together. For the little girl hanging on my shoulder right now, and my two boys wrestling in the yard. That's all I really care about.

 

I would really like for you to go back to my original post and read through as if I were not personally calling you a racist Trump supporter, because I was not. I find this to be a common problem with trying to discuss things with you -- in a long post, you'll zero in on one thing that you find to be a personal insult and chew away at that one little side issue while ignoring the meat of the argument I tried to present. You're doing it here too.

I can see, however, why you could think I was personally attacking you. I said that your arguments sound a lot like the same kind of stale arguments that come out of Republican propaganda. I've seen far too many people, especially here, claim to be centrists, and to not really belong to either party, but then argue 100% Republican talking points (Curt Schilling used to claim he was an independent before he went full Breitbart). Your arguments sounded similar. So I characterized them that way. If you think I have you wrong, that's fine, but that's not why I'm here. I am not here to argue about your personal qualities. The next time you feel it imperative to personally defend yourself against some imagined charge that I supposedly leveled, please just let it go. The next time you feel the need to go on a long tangent about your personal life in order to justify whatever political opinions your demographic has come about, please just go back to the argument. You said before you wanted to talk about facts, but I've been the one linking support for my arguments and you're giving me some "view from my front porch" analysis which doesn't prove anything except that one guy has certain views.

I ranted about my frustration with the "white working class" who complains that neither party does anything for them. I think their assessment that they have been abandoned is wrong. It's like you didn't even bother to read the case I made about how the Democrats have actually tried to help the white working class, in the spirit of trying to help all low-income people. But due to well-honed Republican appeals to racial resentment (please don't deny it exists in these communities), the people who would be helped most by Democratic policies are the ones who vote against them. Do you think it's a coincidence that the states with lowest standard of living, lowest educational attainment, and lowest social mobility are the most Republican states? Maybe if the "white working class" actually voted for some Democrats and got some Democratic policies, shit might start to turn around. You might get health care, and environmental regulations to keep companies from poisoning you, and maybe some job training like Hillary Clinton promised.

It's amazing to me to see you complaining about how no one pays attention to the white working class. Literally the entire election was about trying to see which way the "white working class" would vote. There have been a million think pieces and soul-searching editorials from dipshit pundits trying to figure out why the "white working class" does what it does. I already talked about how much campaign energy gets devoted to coal, an industry that represents such a tiny fragment of the economy. To hear the candidates talk, you'd think coal was the linchpin of the economy. There are writers getting whole careers and speaking gigs out of their insight into the mind of the resentful white working class. The white working class gets plenty of fucking attention from where I'm looking.

You're more or less saying you don't pay attention to the very things that would maybe have informed your opinions about social justice and the track records of the two parties. Why should I be interested in a "different perspective" when it's a perspective that doesn't seem to be well-informed?

So please go back and ignore the imagined slights and insults, and just tell me if you think I'm wrong that the Democrats have tried to help working-class people,and the Republicans have consistently fucked them over. Please start there.

And no, I'm not going to debate privilege with you, because I can see from what you've written that it's no use. But I'd at least like for you to take a long hard look at the policies of the two parties and really assess whether or not they are both ignoring you.

[LongRider]

29 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Oh yeah, I think they had some version of those. Tijuana Bibles or something? Like little x-rated comic books in tract form.

OMFG yes!  Trump, Chick Tracks and Tijuana Bibles, oh yeah, a trifecta made in Heaven.  Or maybe Havana.

NSFW.

[Sivin]

I was at the bar trying to eat my prime rib with Fox news on. Fortunately the sound was off, but by the grace of Closed Captioning I got to see Tucker Carleson arguing with a succession of blathering skulls about whether Steve Bannon and Trump were going to let the republican party get it's tax agenda done or start a crusade. 

Pretty great, at least Fox didn't seem to be on the side of Bannon and Trump. That's something, right? 

Although, the fact that there is a fascist whispering in the ear of the president and the legislative branch was going to try and compromise with this man who's political beliefs include women not voting and racial cleansing didn't seem to alarm anyone else. No one on the TV was alarmed, and the rest of the room looked at me like I was the crazy person when I ran out the door screaming about saving the republic. 

[Sivin]

0h, and didn't a fascist just win the chancellorship in Austria? There isn't a right of center Eastern European nations thread, and the whole thing I'm about to do might be too much in the German thread. 

Full disclosure: I'm very underinformed on Austrian politics, but when Fox news is celebrating the election of a guy they describe as 'Right of Center, Anti-Migrant Conservative', I go straight to fascist. 

Really though, are we surprised? Austria kinda got off a bit easy after WWII I think. I mean Anschluss wasn't exactly a unilateral decision, alright. Sure, you only need on belligerent to conquer a nation. But it takes two to be absorbed into the Reich. 

I never really bought in on Austria. It's the next millennium, why the fuck aren't you in NATO? They're always in the middle of shit, gettin' cozy. First they just make a whole fucking ordeal of WWI. I mean, a regional conflict spirals into The World War because once they started shit they kept kinda being German while also keeping the 'we were wearing them down' card open with the allies. 

Then when that doesn't work out they're way to quick to goose step. And let's not even talk about the 50,000 cool ass Autorepieter pistols that they allowed the Nazi's to defile and convert to a 9mm chamber. 

Anyway, they get off pretty light for that whole 'you were kind of Nazi's' business and then proceed to play middle ground during the cold war. 

What the fuck are these guys doing down there? Outsourcing fascism and shit, being cool with Communists? Eww. 

I'd say now that Germany is cool maybe they should annex them again, but then I'd be introducing nationalistic elements to their country and... maybe we shouldn't do that for a while. Especially not Austrian elements. 

 

HITLER JOKE!!!!  

[Altherion]

1 hour ago, Rippounet said:

What progressives keep wondering (and this is not exclusive to the US, far from it) is why are all the "frustrated" people making the worst political choice, again and again.

Short answer: because they can only pick from the set of choices that they're constrained to. Remember, the Democrats not only did their best to bury Sanders, they actually helped Trump in the primary because this was believed to make the general election a foregone conclusion. The idea was to do what the French did with Macron, but whereas the French establishment did it right, the American establishment did it so poorly that the people called their bluff.

1 hour ago, Rippounet said:

So why did all the "frustrated" people vote for Trump and not Sanders? What was so appealing about Trump?

There are a few reasons. First, a large number of people simply could not because of the nature of their state's primary or caucus. Many states restrict voting for the candidate of a particular party based on registration for this party and this registration was finalized long before the serious candidates were clear. Furthermore, many states have caucuses wherein votes are not secret so your parents, your spouse and your employer will all know that you voted for somebody they strongly disapprove of.

Second, Sanders did not campaign solely on class issues. He strongly embraced practically every liberal cause and was as politically correct as possible in the contemporary climate... which immediately meant that roughly half of the population would have to go against their cultural values to vote for him. Trump at least tried to appeal to a variety of people -- in a clumsy, ham-handed manner which I suspect very few people believed, but hey, it's the thought that counts.

Third, Trump ran a much more novel campaign that Sanders did. There was little substance behind it and it was clear that there's no way for him to accomplish most of the things he said (and in fact he has accomplished very little thus far), but the style was unique in the history of modern American politics. It also helped that he made a lot of strongly disliked people very angry. I understood what he was doing, but it was still extremely satisfying to hear the various media personalities and celebrities clucking over how terrible his latest escapade was... and then be shocked to discover that at least half of the population simply doesn't care.

[Altherion]

34 minutes ago, WinterFox said:

0h, and didn't a fascist just win the chancellorship in Austria?

No. The far-right party in Austria (FPO) only won 26.5% of the vote which meant that they were in 3rd place (although very close to 2nd). The winners of the election are "mainstream" conservatives.

[Sivin]

1 minute ago, Altherion said:

No. The far-right party in Austria (FPO) only won 26.5% of the vote which meant that they were in 3rd place (although very close to 2nd). The winners of the election are "mainstream" conservatives.

Well, I suppose that is some comfort. 

[Sivin]

Rick Scott has declared an imminent emergency in Florida ahead of a Richard Spencer rally at the U of Florida. So that they can 'have every resource available to prevent violence'. 

One expects to see those police protecting the Nazi and his ilk and hauling away actual US citizens and members of the human race. 

[The Anti-Targ]

4 hours ago, Sword of Doom said:

GOV Rick Scott declared a state of emergency for Richard Spencer's little nazi get together at UF where he will be preaching his country club yacht club nazism to scumbag young republicans. The Government is literally catering to these fucks.

People are still falling for the just voicing their opinions bullshit and parroting it like fucking robots. Why is he there to "just voice his opinion", which is nazism? To indoctrinate and recruit. Wake the fuck up.

I guess you are going to start to bump up against both freedom of assembly and freedom of speech if you are going to try to shut down Nazi love-ins at places where people sympathetic to hearing Nazi propaganda like to congregate. It's one thing to decry liberal institutions giving racists and transphobes a platform because of some warped idea that giving access to a pulpit to spew forth odious ideologies is a requirement to be a true believer in freedom of speech. But in this case it's not really the same situation. Haters can have their safe spaces too.

[DMC]

4 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

Somebody forgot to mention that the bikers jackets would be adorned with confederate flags and they'd all have swastikas on their helmets.

Plus, they'd be carrying spiked chains with which to flay those on the sidelines - especially lamestream media reporters.

Not saying you're wrong in your description, but this quote was not me.

3 hours ago, WinterFox said:

0h, and didn't a fascist just win the chancellorship in Austria? There isn't a right of center Eastern European nations thread, and the whole thing I'm about to do might be too much in the German thread. 

Glad someone else brought this up.  Fucker is younger than me and just about to lead a major European country.  Perhaps this is not just a US/Trump thing, no?

2 hours ago, Altherion said:

Short answer: because they can only pick from the set of choices that they're constrained to. Remember, the Democrats not only did their best to bury Sanders, they actually helped Trump in the primary because this was believed to make the general election a foregone conclusion. The idea was to do what the French did with Macron, but whereas the French establishment did it right, the American establishment did it so poorly that the people called their bluff.

You're all over the place, and wrong in all of them.  The Dems "buried" Sanders?  No, the DNC did what it always did and prepared for the frontrunner to win.  They helped Trump in the primary?  How?  Limbaugh had "Operation Chaos" in 2008.  Please cite anything resembling such in 2016.  The idea was to do what the French did with Macron?  What?  How does that make any sense whatsoever?  You're talking about two entirely different electoral systems and deriving conclusions that could only be described as laughable.

2 hours ago, Altherion said:

First, a large number of people simply could not because of the nature of their state's primary or caucus. Many states restrict voting for the candidate of a particular party based on registration for this party and this registration was finalized long before the serious candidates were clear. Furthermore, many states have caucuses wherein votes are not secret so your parents, your spouse and your employer will all know that you voted for somebody they strongly disapprove of.

This is a bastardized description of the differences between open, closed, and blanket primaries (let alone the nuances in between).  Further, the bolded is terribly cynical, even for me.  Have you ever been to a caucus?  It's contentious, sure, but the vast majority are not like Shirley Jackson's Lottery, which is what you seem to be depicting.  

1 hour ago, WinterFox said:

Rick Scott has declared an imminent emergency in Florida ahead of a Richard Spencer rally at the U of Florida. So that they can 'have every resource available to prevent violence'. 

One expects to see those police protecting the Nazi and his ilk and hauling away actual US citizens and members of the human race. 

I can say with some authority many individuals affiliated with UF have tried their utmost to prevent Spencer's rally.