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beauty6

Why didn't Tywin re-marry

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I wonder why Tywin never married again. He was so frustrated that Jaime is not available as the heir, he doubted whether Tyrion is his... Why not make a new heir ? And also, why did he plot absurd political matches for his kids and not for himself ? We can infer from the Shae example that he was still able to bed a woman and had desires. Bolton and Frey did not have a problem marying at tge old age, why nobody ever makes such suggestion about Tywin ?

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I think because Joanna was his one true love. It's said she could even make him laugh and that they had a happy marriage. Perhaps Martin wanted to give Tywin one little good quality, that even Tywin Lannister was not total evil and unlikeable, and not as bad as Bolton and Frey. There are enough young Lannister left to be his heir. It was more important for him to honour Joanna than his heir being directly from his blood line.

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Having a heir would bash Jaime's potential return to the Rock as a Lord. I believe that, more than his "perennial love" for Joanna, he expected Jaime to take his role as head of the family sometime during his life. Besides, in the moment of the series, having a kid at his 70 years old would mean he can't oversee his growth (he would die of age let's say at 80 years old) and could not groom him or her as Lady / Lord of the Rock. My guess is that all his bet was on Jaime and, maybe, if all else fails, Tyrion.

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31 minutes ago, Thesilea Greyjoy said:

I think because Joanna was his one true love. ...

Perhaps Martin wanted to give Tywin one little good quality, that even Tywin Lannister was not total evil and unlikeable, and not as bad as Bolton and Frey. 

In my eyes, it is a minus, not a plus. He  presures Jaime and disowns him rather than break his mourning for Joanna ... If that was his motive, I mean.

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20 minutes ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

Having a heir would bash Jaime's potential return to the Rock as a Lord. 

...having a kid at his 70 years old would mean he can't oversee his growth (he would die of age let's say at 80 years old) and could not groom him or her as Lady / Lord of the Rock. 

Jaime would still be the older son, if he decided to get rid of KG.

However, the argument about not being able to raise the young child is valid, Bolton was very irresponsible / resigned even about the survival of a new heir.

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1 hour ago, beauty6 said:

I wonder why Tywin never married again.

Because, like many great and powerful men, he was a hypocrite. He expected from his children the sacrifice for family commitments he wasn't willing to make himself.

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5 minutes ago, shadows and dust said:

Because, like many great and powerful men, he was a hypocrite. He expected from his children the sacrifice for family commitments he wasn't willing to make himself.

Sounds correct !

Still, why do other characters never suggest he should re-marry ? For instance one from the endless supply of Frey women :-)

Edited by beauty6

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56 minutes ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

Having a heir would bash Jaime's potential return to the Rock as a Lord. I believe that, more than his "perennial love" for Joanna, he expected Jaime to take his role as head of the family sometime during his life. Besides, in the moment of the series, having a kid at his 70 years old would mean he can't oversee his growth (he would die of age let's say at 80 years old) and could not groom him or her as Lady / Lord of the Rock. My guess is that all his bet was on Jaime and, maybe, if all else fails, Tyrion.

He is 58 when he dies not 70. It would be beneficial to marry again as after a few years after Jonna's death, could make more Lannister kids and educate them. Especially since Jamie was named Kingsguard and he didn't want Tyrion to become head of House Lannister, so he could make another son and disinherit Tyrion. Tywin is born 242 AC, 273 AC dies Joanna (Tywin is 31 years old). 281 AC Jamie is named kingsguard (Tywin is 39 years old). At this point he could have a another child hoping to get son which would turn 16 once Tywin would be 56 years old so about the start of the book (I counted 1 more year for finding wife, impregnating her and pregnancy). He could easily expect to live until his 70s/80's since he was pretty strong when he died. Also he has Kevan who could educate the heir since Kevan was a weaker copy of Tywin.

So yes Tywin didn't marry because he loved Joanna and was one thing that wasn't as his duty to his family.

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10 minutes ago, beauty6 said:

Sounds correct !

Still, why do other characters never suggest he should re-marry ? For instance one from the endless supply of Frey women :-)

Would you dare go to Tywin and say you could marry one of the Frey daughters my Lord! xd

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Because Tywin's favourite tool was named control. 

If he has another child at older age, he would either be occupied with raising him/her, and as a result other three might slip out of his hands. So in his mind, he might lose control over them.

Second, but more likely, he won't be able to control his new son/daughter. He wasn't getting any younger, and when this child comes of age, he'd be certainly older and not mighty as he once was. 

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Tywin may have had some concern that Cersei would end up raising any of his old-age offspring. He's seen and disapproved of what she did with Joffrey. Fortunately, Cersei was so preoccupied with grooming Joffrey to be Everything She Wanted To Be (and succeeded), that lucky Marcella and Tommin were relatively neglected. As far as Kevan went, Lancel was his primary "product", and Lancel proved to be a weak-minded, ineffectual dud in the end.

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4 minutes ago, zandru said:

Tywin may have had some concern that Cersei would end up raising any of his old-age offspring. He's seen and disapproved of what she did with Joffrey. Fortunately, Cersei was so preoccupied with grooming Joffrey to be Everything She Wanted To Be (and succeeded), that lucky Marcella and Tommin were relatively neglected. As far as Kevan went, Lancel was his primary "product", and Lancel proved to be a weak-minded, ineffectual dud in the end.

That doesn't explains why he wouldn't marry like a year or two after Jamie is named Kingsguard in order to make a new heir (Tyrion is dwarf, Cersei a woman, Jamie Kingsguard). This child would stay at his court and Cersei/Jamie would rarely see him.

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George has said that Tywin married Joanna for basically the same reasons the Targaryens marriages were all about incest, which is “blood purity” control and family wealth control. The same way the Targaryen incest was always looked down upon and never officially accepted -bow or burn- is the same reason why no one could feel safe speaking out against Tywin. He would Castamere them. 

So after Joanna died, he had the wealth, fear, and “pure” blooded children he desired which means there is no other reason to marry. Taking a prostitute like Shae when he desired is another thing. 

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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3 hours ago, Tygett Greenshield said:

Would you dare go to Tywin and say you could marry one of the Frey daughters my Lord! xd

Lol, no !

But OK, Freys were lower on the social ladder than Lannisters. If I were, e.g. Olenna Tyrell, I would dare suggest he could marry somebody from broader Tyrell family. (I would not waste Margery on him, she could do better.) 

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In real life he would probably marry again. The Rock needs a lady to take care of internal stuff. Plus more children are better for his situation. He is like a king of Westerlands, it is much better for him to rule with a wife.  

But for the sake of the plot, GRRM can not let him remarry. Then he will have more children, thus many things will not be as dramatic as now, such as tension between him and Tyrion, surprise over his affair with Shae, his strong emotion on Jaime, Cersei’s ego and power, etc. 

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If A+J = T, then I bet Tywin is infertile. If A+J=/=T, then maybe he was afraid of having another child like Tyrion or worse. 

It seems like women get pregnant awfully quickly on Planetos, so it's odd that a couple wouldn't keep having kids if they needed to produce an heir. 

Or It could simply be that Tywin believed he had the power to withdraw Jaime from the Kingsguard without any serious consequence.

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16 minutes ago, beauty6 said:

Lol, no !

But OK, Freys were lower on the social ladder than Lannisters. If I were, e.g. Olenna Tyrell, I would dare suggest he could marry somebody from broader Tyrell family. (I would not waste Margery on him, she could do better.) 

She wasn't even born when Joanna died you sicko.

3 minutes ago, cgrav said:

If A+J = T, then I bet Tywin is infertile. If A+J=/=T, then maybe he was afraid of having another child like Tyrion or worse. 

It seems like women get pregnant awfully quickly on Planetos, so it's odd that a couple wouldn't keep having kids if they needed to produce an heir. 

Or It could simply be that Tywin believed he had the power to withdraw Jaime from the Kingsguard without any serious consequence.

What makes you think he was infertile, he can hardly impregnate Joanna if she died once Tyrion was born, and you can hardly put another baby into a woman when you get cuckolded.

The afraid of another dwarf seems interesting though.

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Tywin was probably paranoid of being made a fool of by a gold digging younger woman because of what happened with his father. That and Cersei would probably throw a massive tantrum. Overall it was just easier for him to visit prostitutes on the down low every now and then. 

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1 minute ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Tywin was probably paranoid of being made a fool of by a gold digging younger woman because of what happened with his father. That and Cersei would probably throw a massive tantrum. Overall it was just easier for him to visit prostitutes on the down low every now and then. 

Tytos got mocked because his second "wife" was some foreign whore that was stealing from him, not because she was younger. Did anyone mock Jon Arryn for marrying Lysa? No. It was a completely fine thing.

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42 minutes ago, Tygett Greenshield said:

What makes you think he was infertile, he can hardly impregnate Joanna if she died once Tyrion was born, and you can hardly put another into a woman when you get cuckolded.

There's like a 14 year gap between Jamie/Cersei and Tyrion, which makes it look like an unplanned pregnancy, and that goes along well with the AJT theory. Joanna and Tywin were either actively avoiding another child or unable to have one.  I would think that he'd want to remarry and get a backup heir as soon as Jaime was named to the KG, but he decided to hold onto the hand he was dealt. It was easily within his power to fix that... unless he was unable.

Tywin needed someone to inherit Casterly rock. It would have been foolhardy to count on Jaime, and he'd already ruled out Cersei and Tyrion, so I have to think he'd have had another son if he could. And he could have appointed anyone to be lord until the child came of age. 

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