Why didn't Tywin re-marry

[Ralphis Baratheon]

 

9 minutes ago, Tygett Greenshield said:

Tytos got mocked because his second "wife" was some foreign whore that was stealing from him,

I don't think she was either foreign or a prostitute. Just a common born daughter of a candlestick maker. Her station may have had little to do with the situation in Tywin's eyes. She was a women who sought to replace Tywin's mother's position and was succeeding. She took her place at the table and was wearing her jewels. All this without even being Tytos lawful wife though it seems she was the Lady of Casterly Rock in all but name.

I would not dismiss the effect all this had on Tywin's outlook on remarrying. He obviously had a great deal of respect for Joanna and didn't want to do anything that would be seen as replacing her in the eyes of his family, people or even himself.

 

7 minutes ago, Tygett Greenshield said:

Did anyone mock Jon Arryn for marrying Lysa?

And that ended up working out so well for Jon Arryn and Lysa.

[zandru]

50 minutes ago, cgrav said:

There's like a 14 year gap between Jamie/Cersei and Tyrion

No, it was more like 5 to 7 years. And I don't think Tywin was "avoiding" getting a replacement for Jaime after Loanna died. Instead, he was convinced that eventually, he could bend Jaime to his will. This would have been more difficult if Tywin actually did have "a spare". Even after Jaime insisted he would never leave the Kingsguard and Tywin "disowned" him, I'm sure Tywin was expecting that Jaime would come crawling back. Maybe after having it proven that, one-handed, he could no longer function as a member of the guard. That would have given Tywin great personal satisfaction. It's a strange expression of "parental love", but there you have it. In ASOIAF, most forms of "love" seem to be poisoned.

[Endymion I Targaryen]

I think Twyin not remarrying has many possibilities:

• He tried to avoid becoming a widower with a much younger wife/paramour like his father.
• He was faithful to Joanna, the love of his life.Plus Joanna died during childbirth and that could have caused Twyin a psychological trauma about labour and having children.
• He had enough heirs even if his own line was disinherited.
• House Lannister during Robert's reign is not that desperate for allies.After all, he is the queen's father.

[Angel Eyes]

3 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

George has said that Tywin married Joanna for basically the same reasons the Targaryens marriages were all about incest, which is “blood purity” control and family wealth control. The same way the Targaryen incest was always looked down upon and never officially accepted -bow or burn- is the same reason why no one could feel safe speaking out against Tywin. He would Castamere them. 

So after Joanna died, he had the wealth, fear, and “pure” blooded children he desired which means there is no other reason to marry. Taking a prostitute like Shae when he desired is another thing. 

So where does Tywin loving Joanna come from, if he only married her for "blood purity?"

[The Last Wolf]

Tywin did not get married because maybe he liked Joanna a lot or because he thought he had enough heirs.

 

[Jon Fossoway]

2 hours ago, Endymion I Targaryen said:

I think Twyin not remarrying has many possibilities:

• He tried to avoid becoming a widower with a much younger wife/paramour like his father.

While I do believe Tywin harbored feelings for Joanna, not emulating his father sounds like a stronger reason to remain unwed. If he did visited brothels in hiding it would be quite ironic that in end end he was pretty much like Tytos, as Tyrion is similar as Tywin.

[The Fattest Leech]

17 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

So where does Tywin loving Joanna come from, if he only married her for "blood purity?"

I have no idea. Tywin and Joanna shippers? 

The author says the primary reason for marriage among the any house (noble, small, or common) was to build alliances. To bring two things different thins together to make something stronger. Tywin forwent that normal idea and married Joanna because he is arrogant and thinks others are below him and the Lannisters. The author says the clear reason Tywin did this was to, “reinforce the family bloodline”. 

Its no coincidence that there are many plausible theories about either Tyrion or Jaime/Cersei being a secret Targaryen since what Tywin was doing was replicating that idea. 

[Dofs]

4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

George has said that Tywin married Joanna for basically the same reasons the Targaryens marriages were all about incest, which is “blood purity” control and family wealth control. The same way the Targaryen incest was always looked down upon and never officially accepted -bow or burn- is the same reason why no one could feel safe speaking out against Tywin. He would Castamere them. 

So after Joanna died, he had the wealth, fear, and “pure” blooded children he desired which means there is no other reason to marry. Taking a prostitute like Shae when he desired is another thing. 

Martin has claimed that the reason was probably love or maybe to reduce the number of heirs. He was also not sure if it was even Tywin who decided to marry Joanna or if it was his father's or grandfather's decision. :

Quote

 

Noble houses usually make marriages of convenience to build alliances. As a matter of fact, it's a common practice not only among the noble class, but also among the middle class and even among peasants: If somebody has a piece of land, he marries his daughter with somebody who has an even bigger piece of land, in the hope that all that land will belong to his grandchildren some day.

About Tywin......Probably.

It could be love, but there is another clear motive, which is to reinforce the family's bloodline. The Targayren are the extreme example of that policy: they only marry within the family to keep the purity of the blood, and that way you avoid the problem of having several candidates for the throne or the rule of the family. If you have a generation of five brothers and each of them has several children (sons?), after two or three generations you could find yourself with thirty potential heirs: there could be thirty people named Lannister or Frey, and that produces confict, because all of them are going to get involved in hereditary fights for the throne. That's what originated the War of the Roses; An excess of candidates for the throne, all of them descendants of Edward III. Laking a heir (like Henry VIII) is just as bad as having too many of them. If you have five sons and you want to avoid that kind of problem, maybe it's not such a bad idea to marry the firstborn girl of the oldest son with the third son (or with the firstborn of the third son?), and that way you avoid fights and the bloodline remains united, so maybe that was the purpose of Tywin's marriage. Maybe it was Lord Tytos' idea, or maybe even Tywin's grandfather's idea, it depends on which was the exact time in which the marriage alliance was brokered, but I would have to check my notes because I can't remember.

 

Seems to me Martin hasn't really thought about this topic. 

 

 

[The Fattest Leech]

11 minutes ago, Dofs said:

Martin has claimed that the reason was probably love or maybe to reduce the number of heirs. He was also not sure if it was even Tywin who decided to marry Joanna or if it was his father's decision. :

Seems to me Martin hasn't really thought about this topic. 

 

 

He has, especially when you look at how this fits in with the entire story (how this idea repeats over and over), and what he says in other interviews as well. 

And what you quoted doesnhave George stating what is “clear” , what the main example is (the Targs), and what he is avoiding answering by having to go check his notes. 

[The Fattest Leech]

1 minute ago, Dofs said:

Martin has claimed that the reason was probably love or maybe to reduce the number of heirs. He was also not sure if it was even Tywin who decided to marry Joanna or if it was his father's decision. :

Seems to me Martin hasn't really thought about this topic. 

 

 

And I just realized this ideas that is reduces heirs contradicts what was said about incest elsewhere, so maybe he doesn’t have it all super detailed at the time of these interviews? 

[Dofs]

34 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

And I just realized this ideas that is reduces heirs contradicts what was said about incest elsewhere, so maybe he doesn’t have it all super detailed at the time of these interviews? 

I think so, at least in Joanna's case. In another instance the times when Joanna went to KL to serve Queen Rhaella are different in the Aerys II chapter of aWoIaF and in unedited version of Westerlands chapter posted on GRRM's website. In one version she went there for Jaehaerys' coronation (and rumored to have been Aerys' lover later), in another she went there together with Tywin when he was appointed as Hand. George writing two different backstories for Joanna in two different chapters indicates to me that he really didn't put much thought about her and doesn't have her backstory set in his mind at all. This is also for me one of the biggest arguments against any A+J= theories.

[zandru]

If Tywin took a second wife, there would always be a question whether his older children (read "Tyrion") should actually have had precedence over any offspring by the younger, second wife. Wars were fought among the Targaryens over just this kind of thing.

[Foot_Of_The_King]

Even without an heir being at question. A marriage could have gained House Lannister a powerful ally. Damn near every (I know not all) lord in the Seven Kingdoms would gladly give a daughter to the Lion of the Rock.