The Dayne Heir(ess)- Daenerys

[AlaskanSandman]

4 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

who said this? I have never heard of it before 

Usual answer i here. 

 

4 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

you did

No i didn't, i said she the child of Rhaegar and Ashara. That would make her a Targaryen.

4 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

the brandon bit is at least plausible. Dany being a Dayne? not a chance

No, the Brandon bit isn't plausible. I was being generous with any percent.

Another argument i hear is that Ashara was dishonored and the person who did it was Brandon cause you know, he did it to Barbary. Cause you know, it really hurt Babary's chances of getting married. Even though, it didn't.

4 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

You don't need to ask for permission, and I never said anything in this thread is right, because it is all foolish. Like really foolish. But hey, that is what happens with more than half a decade between books

Really? So Jon isn't the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna?

[AlaskanSandman]

7 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

I just find the idea of a pregnant, zombie Lyanna entertaining.

Almost as entertaining as poor Lyanna holding on to a dead wreath of flowers for a year and a half.  Prince Charming couldn’t spring for a fresh bouquet every once in a while?  Likely the roses she she was clutching were a revolving set of flowers brought into the room to cover up the smell of her impending death within the room, it seems like that was a thing to do back in the day.

Really? Never buy your gf flowers and have her save them cause they mean so much to her? Hmm.

And who said anything about zombie Lyanna? 

 

[Frey family reunion]

48 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

Looks like Venice but climate is different as Braavos is surrounded by ocean from North, West and East and is also much more North. While Venice is deep in the deepest Gulf of Mediterranean sea. Climate is way hotter, I think you can plant rice in Venice. I live like 200 km from Venice and been there. As well as Scotland.

No I agree via the climate.  Which is why I say it's like a hybrid of Venice and Lankhmar, a fictional city at the foot of a salt water swamp.  But perhaps colder than both.

I think it's clear that we should doubt that the lemon tree of Dany's memory was in Braavos:

Spoiler

"Seven hells, this place is damp," she heard her guard complain.  "I'm chilled to the bones.  Where are the bloody orange trees?  I always heard there were orange trees in the Free Cities.  Lemons and limes.  Pomegranates.  Hot peppers, warm nights, girls with bare bellies.  Where are the bare bellied girls I ask you?"

"Down in Lys, and Myr, and Old Volantis," the other guard replied... Braavos is north of King's Landing fool.  Can't you read a bloody map?"

 

[Frey family reunion]

28 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Really? Never buy your gf flowers and have her save them cause they mean so much to her? Hmm.

And who said anything about zombie Lyanna? 

 

Zombie Lyanna is my little jest.  If her palms were what the "dead and black" were describing as opposed to the rose petals, than it would invoke Coldhands and the wights, thus Zombie Lyanna giving birth, ah nevermind.

As for the flowers, who knows.  Even though I find it much more likely that they were Lyanna's defense to the smell of her own upcoming mortality.  But I'm a lot less sentimental than most.  As for the original "crown" I assume that Brandon probably threw it in the garbage on the way out of the tourney grounds.

[maudisdottir]

3 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Ned doesn't think that much of Rhaegar or many other persons either, Rickard Stark included.

But at least he does think of Rhaegar, more than once. Ashara? Not even a passing, unnamed thought, or a rumination on lost love, or anything to indicate he was broken-hearted about her, let alone had an affair and possibly a child with her. At least we have concrete evidence from the books that Brandon and Ashara exchanged words (with a positive outcome, i.e. she agreed to dance with his brother). We don't have any record of Ned and Ashara's interactions, not even when he returned Dawn to Starfall - we only hear about that from others. You'd think that with such a sad, star-crossed love story, poor surviving Romeo would think about dead Juliet once in a while. Instead, it's all about his sister.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

13 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Really? Again, Brandon died in 282 in the first 3 months a few days before he was to wed Cat. It still is not possible. Brandon isn't a part of the picture period other than dying. 

I can respect that

I'm not sure what exactly you consider not to be possible with the timeline. I'm also not sure where you are getting the fact that Brandon died in the first 3 months of 282. Not saying you're wrong, I just don't know where that timeline comes from.

Just to give more specifics on my end, I think Brandon impregnated Ashara either on the way to KL or (more likely) while he was a prisoner in the black cells, facilitated by Varys. So basically the timeline would be: Brandon conceived Jon right before being executed, the first few battles of the war happened super fast, Ned conceived Robb, and then later Ned lied about Jon's age by 1-3 months to claim he fathered Jon himself while he was fighting the war. And Cat never noticed the age difference because she didn't meet Jon until he was old enough so you couldn't easily tell the difference.

But even if I am wrong about B+A=J, I still think the clear implication from the combined accounts of Meera and Barristan is that Brandon "dishonored" Ashara at HH.

 

[Dorian Martell's son]

4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Usual answer i here. 

OK

4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

No i didn't, i said she the child of Rhaegar and Ashara. That would make her a Targaryen.

No, that would make her a bastard. she would be a sand, or a storm depending on where she was born. Aerys would have to legitimize her to be a targ in your theory 

4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

No, the Brandon bit isn't plausible. I was being generous with any percent.

Brandon screwing Ashara, despite how improbable it is, is still infinitely more probable than Dany being a bastard heir to house Dayne over a legit son like Ned

4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Another argument i hear is that Ashara was dishonored and the person who did it was Brandon cause you know, he did it to Barbary. Cause you know, it really hurt Babary's chances of getting married. Even though, it didn't.

Barbary never got knocked up by Brandon, thus her lack of maidenhead was not public knowledge. Think a little dude. it helps 

4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Really? So Jon isn't the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna?

A lot of people still cling to this idea and the hopes that Ashara or Aerys or Ned or Brandon or Arthur or Benjen or Bob or anyone else would be revealed as Jon's parent even though it has been confirmed. So yes, people like yourself keep asking that same question, even though it has been put to rest 

[Weirwood Ghost]

On 10/24/2017 at 1:06 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

The union and said baby of Jon and Dany is either the thing we want, or the thing we dont want.

As the story doesn't leave enough time for their baby to grow to be the hero who is the union of ice and fire. Its likely, this is the union to prevent.

IMO- said baby is part of the Night's King's plan. Again, think of Craster and all those babies. 

I've thought this as well...that the culmination of all the years, all the moons cracking, rebellions, relationships, births, deaths, magic aligning so that he can fulfill his purpose. Which has something to do with joining with his Queen. She took within his seed and therefore his soul.

Queen is represented by the moon, King is the sun and stars, light - dark, life - death, yin - yang, the marriage of opposites within the psyche and without.

[AlaskanSandman]

12 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

OK

No, that would make her a bastard. she would be a sand, or a storm depending on where she was born. Aerys would have to legitimize her to be a targ in your theory 

Brandon screwing Ashara, despite how improbable it is, is still infinitely more probable than Dany being a bastard heir to house Dayne over a legit son like Ned

Barbary never got knocked up by Brandon, thus her lack of maidenhead was not public knowledge. Think a little dude. it helps 

A lot of people still cling to this idea and the hopes that Ashara or Aerys or Ned or Brandon or Arthur or Benjen or Bob or anyone else would be revealed as Jon's parent even though it has been confirmed. So yes, people like yourself keep asking that same question, even though it has been put to rest 

Yea we're done dude. Think a lil your self keyboard warrior 

[AlaskanSandman]

14 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

I'm not sure what exactly you consider not to be possible with the timeline. I'm also not sure where you are getting the fact that Brandon died in the first 3 months of 282. Not saying you're wrong, I just don't know where that timeline comes from.

Just to give more specifics on my end, I think Brandon impregnated Ashara either on the way to KL or (more likely) while he was a prisoner in the black cells, facilitated by Varys. So basically the timeline would be: Brandon conceived Jon right before being executed, the first few battles of the war happened super fast, Ned conceived Robb, and then later Ned lied about Jon's age by 1-3 months to claim he fathered Jon himself while he was fighting the war. And Cat never noticed the age difference because she didn't meet Jon until he was old enough so you couldn't easily tell the difference.

But even if I am wrong about B+A=J, I still think the clear implication from the combined accounts of Meera and Barristan is that Brandon "dishonored" Ashara at HH.

 

 

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Eddard I

Brandon had been twenty when he died, strangled by order of the Mad King Aerys Targaryen only a few short days before he was to wed Catelyn Tully of Riverrun. His father had been forced to watch him die. He was the true heir, the eldest, born to rule.

 

That was 282. The next year, the events go, the Battle of the Bells, then the wedding, the the Trident and sack of K.L.

Plus the fact the Tourney was late in the year of 281.

 

Placing the Starks in the south for the Tourney and prepping for the wedding after. 

 

I my self place Aegon's birth to Rhaegar before the Tourney as Rhaegar leaves after and kidnaps Lyanna. 

 

I dont believe there is an intentional issue with Little Fingers birth and the Siege of Storm's End.

 

That being said, i've seen many different ideas of the time line. The craziest to me is the Order of the Greenhands video on their theory. Which claims the war didn't start till 283, giving Eddard and Ashara enough time. 

 

Even if the Sack of K.L. was in march of 283 as i suspect, Brandon would have to die by june-july of 282 for that to happen, but that conflicts with Ned's marriage to Caitlynn. 

 

Yea i can't get behind the Brandon theory. Alot of people (Not you in particular) have to come up with something to get around it, like a guy can't tell his new bride isn't a virgin, when there's no blood. Yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaa. When Brandon him self says there's nothing like a bloody sword. 

[AlaskanSandman]

2 hours ago, Weirwood Ghost said:

I've thought this as well...that the culmination of all the years, all the moons cracking, rebellions, relationships, births, deaths, magic aligning so that he can fulfill his purpose. Which has something to do with joining with his Queen. She took within his seed and therefore his soul.

Queen is represented by the moon, King is the sun and stars, light - dark, life - death, yin - yang, the marriage of opposites within the psyche and without.

Yea, see these are some of the topics id much rather discuss than parentage lol or my Walrus Men and Antler men links, or the Og Dance Links hahah but nope, every body just wants to discuss parentage haha Nice to meet some one thinking past it all to the end game and implications of the things we've been given, and we've been given alot. 

That being said, it seriously does seem that it's something like this, given the pieces from Jon's narrative and Dany's combined with the old legends. Would love to hear some more thoughts of yours on it though, even differing ones!  

Personally, i think the Night's King want's their kid. As it would give him a soulless body to not resist him (think Varamyr and Hodor) for him to be reborn a man again and free from the children curse. 

This is when i think Jon must sacrifice Dany and drive the sword through her. Full filling her and his role of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa, and bringing an end to the original Azor Ahai.

Which, i know George said that the show Knight's King is not likely to be the original. Which may or may not be true. My question is, do the Others age or die of any other causes? The Original could have been killed already though, and it's just the new leader. I obviously couldn't say.

[AlaskanSandman]

Just out of curiosity, is Eddard denying Jon the Lordship of Winterfell and allowing him to take the black, a secret punishment from Ned over his hatred of Brandon for knocking up his girl? Is Eddard petty now on top of one of the least honorable guys we've met?

[Dorian Martell's son]

2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Yea we're done dude. Think a lil your self keyboard warrior 

no, you will keep posting and replying. It is why you are here 

[maudisdottir]

 

7 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Personally, i think the Night's King want's their kid.

Who is this Night's King you speak of?

[Corvo the Crow]

12 minutes ago, maudisdottir said:

 

Who is this Night's King you speak of?

 

It's a show character. Some ripoff of Night King merged with the Great Other.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

 

7 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

like a guy can't tell his new bride isn't a virgin, when there's no blood. Yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaa. When Brandon him self says there's nothing like a bloody sword. 

Barbrey could have just claimed to have lost her maidenhead from vigorous horseback riding as Ryswell's are known for their mounts. She did marry Willam Dustin who, as far as we know, did not make a big deal about the lack of blood on their wedding night. I can't remember but I think this is the defense Margaery Tyrell used when it was discovered her maidenhead was no longer intact. 

 

 

[White Ravens]

2 hours ago, maudisdottir said:

 

Who is this Night's King you speak of?

The Night's KIng is a character from the Age of Heroes.  According to GRRM " “In the books he is a legendary figure, akin to Lann the Clever and Brandon the Builder,” Martin writes on his Not-A-Blog, “And no more likely to have survived to the present day than they have.”  

He  exists in ancient Westerosi legends but our OP appears to think that he is still alive thousands of years later.

[maudisdottir]

22 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

The Night's KIng is a character from the Age of Heroes.  According to GRRM " “In the books he is a legendary figure, akin to Lann the Clever and Brandon the Builder,” Martin writes on his Not-A-Blog, “And no more likely to have survived to the present day than they have.”  

He  exists in ancient Westerosi legends but our OP appears to think that he is still alive thousands of years later.

Yeah I know who the Night’s King is (or was), I was just surprised that he’s got plans for Gilly’s baby, according to our expert, seeing as he’s been dead for thousands of years.

[AlaskanSandman]

I already covered this. The guy leading the Others may not be the original Nights King, as i already mentioned Martin's comments. So essentially, who ever is leading the Others and probably the head guy skinchanging the dead army. It's just easier to refer to him as the Night's King. People get so lost in the littlest of things.

[AlaskanSandman]

4 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

 

Barbrey could have just claimed to have lost her maidenhead from vigorous horseback riding as Ryswell's are known for their mounts. She did marry Willam Dustin who, as far as we know, did not make a big deal about the lack of blood on their wedding night. I can't remember but I think this is the defense Margaery Tyrell used when it was discovered her maidenhead was no longer intact. 

 

 

Find a quote and you might be working with something  I assume this is Joffery you speak of? Since gay Renly wouldn't care a fig. Again though, losing her virginity didn't hurt Margery's chances of marrying a high lord or a King. So still doesn't prove Brandon banged Ashara and dishonored her to all.