Queen Sansa Stark Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 The people who hate her are holding on to what Sansa did in the first book. However, I am sure they will like her once she 'redeems' herself in the upcoming two books. And if my predictions are right I think that what made them dislike her in A Game of Thrones will be the very thing they will like in TWOW/ADOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 16 minutes ago, Queen Sansa Stark said: The people who hate her are holding on to what Sansa did in the first book. However, I am sure they will like her once she 'redeems' herself in the upcoming two books. And if my predictions are right I think that what made them dislike her in A Game of Thrones will be the very thing they will like in TWOW/ADOS. My sweet sweet summer child, what do you know of Winter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 On 10/22/2017 at 7:00 PM, 40 Thousand Skeletons said: Short answer, people are biased against her from her actions in AGOT (acting mean toward Arya, lying about the Joffrey incident, and playing her part in getting Ned killed), and lots of readers (especially the male readers which I suspect is a large majority of the fandom) have a difficult time seeing things through the eyes of a young girl, especially when her younger sister is such a badass. I personally fell into this trap and initially disliked Sansa a lot, but on subsequent rereads I have become much more sympathetic toward her. As a male and Sansa fan, I picked up the books at a time my daughter was 13 going on 14, and doing a lot of the shit ( not getting dad killed stuff ) like with boys, the world revolves around her etc. and realized to me anyway Sansa was a normal kid, my daughter would never be an Arya ( I would not want that for her ) most Arya's in real world situations almost never have happy endings, and are just tragic . Also Lady stuff 99% stupid adults, with a sprinkle of dicky boy, and a hot headed girl, left Sansa in a no win situation, yet people blamed her, not the weak king, bitchy cruel queen, and a overly honorable man who actually did the deed. Sansa had a role in getting her and Jeyne captured, but again to me most of the blame is on Ned, LF, Cat, Joffery again grownups and a dicky boy. Many are like Arya, stuck in book 1 or season 1 mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 On 10/23/2017 at 5:12 PM, Universal Sword Donor said: Ned would have had a lot better time surviving if CERSEI HADN'T KNOWN HE WHAT HE WAS PLANNING. Sansa is my 2nd favorite character but GRRM wrote her to be hated in the first two books. Can't really get around it and Ned is the patriarch of his self-admitted protagonist family Not sure if your putting the blame on Sansa or Ned, but it was Ned who went to Cersei and layed out his plan to her with a get out before Robert comes home. He told her days before he even had a ship, He, Joffery and LF are the main ( over 90 + % ) he died, along with not at least entertaining Renly's offer. Sansa running just closed off their <5% chance of getting out...sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Ravens Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 On 10/22/2017 at 3:15 PM, manchester_babe said: Why do people hate Sansa Stark? What makes you think that people hate Sansa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 On 12/6/2017 at 1:15 AM, Grail King said: Not sure if your putting the blame on Sansa or Ned, but it was Ned who went to Cersei and layed out his plan to her with a get out before Robert comes home. He told her days before he even had a ship, He, Joffery and LF are the main ( over 90 + % ) he died, along with not at least entertaining Renly's offer. Sansa running just closed off their <5% chance of getting out...sadly. Sansa. If Cersei hadn't known what Ned was going to do, she wouldn't have had time to use LF to bribe Slynt and the guards. Ned certainly has his share of the blame, but to deny that Sansa's acts had <10% to do with it is folly imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 15 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said: Sansa. If Cersei hadn't known what Ned was going to do, she wouldn't have had time to use LF to bribe Slynt and the guards. Ned certainly has his share of the blame, but to deny that Sansa's acts had <10% to do with it is folly imo. Except Cersei knew, Ned told her himself days before Sansa went to her, days before he even had a boat. What Cersei didn't know was a time line, which Sansa gave up . Along with Ned refusing Renly and trusting LF, Not saying Sansa had no part, she did, but she didn't know what was up behind the scene, or her dad's machinations or LF's or Cersei's. She was stupid, rebellious and foolish, not malicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Grail King said: She was stupid, rebellious and foolish, not malicious. She was the good girl, the obedient girl, but she had felt as wicked as Arya that morning, sneaking away from Septa Mordane, defying her lord father. She knew it was wrong and selfish, and she knew it would harm her father's plans, so yes, it was malicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 On 12/4/2017 at 4:00 PM, Queen Sansa Stark said: The people who hate her are holding on to what Sansa did in the first book. However, I am sure they will like her once she 'redeems' herself in the upcoming two books. And if my predictions are right I think that what made them dislike her in A Game of Thrones will be the very thing they will like in TWOW/ADOS. That's if we get the last two books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 On 12/7/2017 at 1:49 PM, LiveFirstDieLater said: She was the good girl, the obedient girl, but she had felt as wicked as Arya that morning, sneaking away from Septa Mordane, defying her lord father. She knew it was wrong and selfish, and she knew it would harm her father's plans, so yes, it was malicious. That's not the definition of malicious. Malicious is intent for bodily harm, that was not her intent, and you know it, by that quote, Arya betrayed her father, by not following his orders. Malicious is Cersei at 11-13, tweaking her baby brother's penis, pushing another person down a well. Malicious is not running to say good bye, or ask the Queen to talk out her differences with her dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy Hill Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 On 7 décembre 2017 at 7:49 PM, LiveFirstDieLater said: She was the good girl, the obedient girl, but she had felt as wicked as Arya that morning, sneaking away from Septa Mordane, defying her lord father. She knew it was wrong and selfish, and she knew it would harm her father's plans, so yes, it was malicious. The other time Sansa uses the expression "as wicked as Arya" is when she and Jeyne sneak into the kitchen to get a strawberry pie for dessert. She views disobeying her father and talking to Cersei in the same light. It's a selfish and foolish act, surely, but not at all malicious, since she has no desire whatsoever to hurt anyone. And while Sansa should be held accountable for her actions, we should also keep in mind that for a noble girl, marrying the crown prince is the equivalent of a girl getting into Harvard in real life. If a father told his daughter "Sorry honey, even though you got accepted into Harvard you won't be going. No, I'm not giving you an explanation", wouldn't the girl do everything in her power to change that situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annalee Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 On 10/22/2017 at 6:15 PM, manchester_babe said: Why do people hate Sansa Stark? I just do. She's an air head. The female equivalent of Jon. She knows nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, Annalee said: I just do. She's an air head. The female equivalent of Jon. She knows nothing. I'm surprised no one's actually said that to her. "You know nothing, Sansa Stark." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annalee Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: I'm surprised no one's actually said that to her. "You know nothing, Sansa Stark." I'll say it. "You know nothing, Sansa Stark" How's that Angel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, Annalee said: I'll say it. "You know nothing, Sansa Stark" How's that Angel? Fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Cold Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 hours ago, Joy Hill said: The other time Sansa uses the expression "as wicked as Arya" is when she and Jeyne sneak into the kitchen to get a strawberry pie for dessert. She views disobeying her father and talking to Cersei in the same light. It's a selfish and foolish act, surely, but not at all malicious, since she has no desire whatsoever to hurt anyone. And while Sansa should be held accountable for her actions, we should also keep in mind that for a noble girl, marrying the crown prince is the equivalent of a girl getting into Harvard in real life. If a father told his daughter "Sorry honey, even though you got accepted into Harvard you won't be going. No, I'm not giving you an explanation", wouldn't the girl do everything in her power to change that situation? Joffrey tortures a peasant boy. His mother Queen Cersei demands that Lady be killed out of spite. Sansa's response? Refuses to take her sister's side, blames Mycah and Arya. Jaime Lannister injures her father and kills her father's men. Her father decides to send her and the rest of the Stark household away for their own safety. Sansa's response? Sells out her father and family because she wanted to stay in King's Landing and become Queen. This is all fine though. Sansa just wants to go to Westeros' version of "Harvard". Yeah right. There are no excuses for her betrayal. She wanted to become Queen and she was willing to abandon her family members to achieve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy Hill Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Winter's Cold said: Joffrey tortures a peasant boy. His mother Queen Cersei demands that Lady be killed out of spite. Sansa's response? Refuses to take her sister's side, blames Mycah and Arya. Jaime Lannister injures her father and kills her father's men. Her father decides to send her and the rest of the Stark household away for their own safety. Sansa's response? Sells out her father and family because she wanted to stay in King's Landing and become Queen. This is all fine though. Sansa just wants to go to Westeros' version of "Harvard". Yeah right. There are no excuses for her betrayal. She wanted to become Queen and she was willing to abandon her family members to achieve it. I have never said her actions were "all fine". All I said is that none of her actions were done out of malice. There are only a few major POV characters who are relatively blameless (Brienne, Sam, Davos, Jon, possibly Ned). The others have all commited (sometimes heinous) crimes. At this point, Sansa is very far from being the worst sinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 On 12/8/2017 at 11:00 PM, Grail King said: Malicious is intent for bodily harm, No, just the intent to do harm knowing it's wrong... like malicious gossip or "Sansa maliciously undermined her father's plans"... Honestly though, disobeyed her father and ran to the twin of the man who had killed Jory, a loyal servant of her family all her life, I don't think it would be hard to make a physical harm arguement either. On 12/9/2017 at 0:56 PM, Joy Hill said: There are only a few major POV characters who are relatively blameless (Brienne, Sam, Davos, Jon, possibly Ned). The others have all commited (sometimes heinous) crimes. At this point, Sansa is very far from being the worst sinner. The OP isn't who has committed crimes, it's why we don't like Sansa... other people's actions don't make her own less hateable. My point was really just that she knew what she was doing was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy Hill Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 4 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said: The OP isn't who has committed crimes, it's why we don't like Sansa... other people's actions don't make her own less hateable. Yes. I was merely replying to a post that more or less stated (as I understood it) that Sansa's actions are unforgivable. Which is fair enough, since whether something is forgivable is entirely subjective. I just find it odd that in a series where other characters' questionable actions include raping sex slaves and murdering an old man for no other reason than "just following orders", Sansa often seems to be presented as the most amoral one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon_Stargaryen Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Quote The OP isn't who has committed crimes, it's why we don't like Sansa... other people's actions don't make her own less hateable. My point was really just that she knew what she was doing was wrong. Even by that metric, there are few characters that we would consider "good" that have purposefully done as much harm as Sansa. Cat or Tyrion, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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