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NFL 2017: Less Than Burfict


Manhole Eunuchsbane

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2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

So the players do what they've been doing for weeks now. Thought they would've done something different. If they wanted to really prove a point they should've refused to play the game. I recall the Clippers players talking about doing that a couple years ago but they didn't do it. Not sure how that would affect them getting paid, but I think it's safe to say most athletes aren't willing to sacrifice money for making a point. 

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I'm all for going for it on 4th and goal to go like that, but in this tight of a game, I think it was a mistake not to take the lead with a FG.  Especially with that play the Lions ran.

Overall though, been pleasantly suprised by this game.  Enjoying it much more than I thought I would.

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7 minutes ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

So the players do what they've been doing for weeks now. Thought they would've done something different. If they wanted to really prove a point they should've refused to play the game. I recall the Clippers players talking about doing that a couple years ago but they didn't do it. Not sure how that would affect them getting paid, but I think it's safe to say most athletes aren't willing to sacrifice money for making a point. 

The whole fucking point is that they should be able to fight for what they believe in while being football players. Football is their job, but they are also people with actual thoughts and emotions.

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14 minutes ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

So the players do what they've been doing for weeks now. Thought they would've done something different. If they wanted to really prove a point they should've refused to play the game. I recall the Clippers players talking about doing that a couple years ago but they didn't do it. Not sure how that would affect them getting paid, but I think it's safe to say most athletes aren't willing to sacrifice money for making a point. 

The Clippers deal was on a whole nother level, I'm afraid. And even that didn't result in the players sitting out a game. 

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4 minutes ago, sperry said:

The whole fucking point is that they should be able to fight for what they believe in while being football players. Football is their job, but they are also people with actual thoughts and emotions.

Very astute observation. My point is that if they want to see actual change they should do something different and more extreme. Kneeling down for the anthem has become a norm at this point. If the players think that the owner's comments were racist, and then discussed how they should handle it (refuse to play, take the Texans logo off their helmet - some of the things I read that were discussed, etc), then come out and do the same thing they've been doing for a year now, it seems like a weak reaction. 

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1 minute ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

Very astute observation. My point is that if they want to see actual change they should do something different and more extreme. Kneeling down for the anthem has become a norm at this point. If the players think that the owner's comments were racist, and then discussed how they should handle it (refuse to play, take the Texans logo off their helmet - some of the things I read that were discussed, etc), then come out and do the same thing they've been doing for a year now, it seems like a weak reaction. 

 I think it's more or less perfect given the point their owner was trying to make. No one gets hurt and it runs directly counter to what their owner wanted to have happen.

And let's talk about this "it just ruins the game for me" narrative I keep hearing. That was a great fucking game. If you stopped watching that game because "you got your politics in my football", then you just missed a great fucking game.

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1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 I think it's more or less perfect given the point their owner was trying to make. No one gets hurt and it runs directly counter to what their owner wanted to have happen.

And let's talk about this "it just ruins the game for me" narrative I keep hearing. That was a great fucking game. If you stopped watching that game because "you got your politics in my football", then you just missed a great fucking game.

That's fair. Just thought they would've done something more. 

It doesn't ruin the game for me by any means. I don't tune in for the anthem anyway so I could care less. Unfortunately I missed the game because Fox wanted me to see Cowboys/Redskins instead. So sick of watching that division play each other every time I want to watch a game.

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10 hours ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

That's fair. Just thought they would've done something more. 

It doesn't ruin the game for me by any means. I don't tune in for the anthem anyway so I could care less. Unfortunately I missed the game because Fox wanted me to see Cowboys/Redskins instead. So sick of watching that division play each other every time I want to watch a game.

If you're talking about the Seahawks-Texans game, it was on CBS.

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10 hours ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

Very astute observation. My point is that if they want to see actual change they should do something different and more extreme. Kneeling down for the anthem has become a norm at this point. If the players think that the owner's comments were racist, and then discussed how they should handle it (refuse to play, take the Texans logo off their helmet - some of the things I read that were discussed, etc), then come out and do the same thing they've been doing for a year now, it seems like a weak reaction. 

The protest is not the norm. Kneeling or sitting was fading -- only a handful of players were still protesting when  Trump kicked the hornet's nest and inspired nationwide protests.

Again, last week, the protests were starting to fade until McNair went off last week. The fragile feelings of cranky old white men are what's generating new waves of protest.

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2 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

The protest is not the norm. Kneeling or sitting was fading -- only a handful of players were still protesting when  Trump kicked the hornet's nest and inspired nationwide protests.

Again, last week, the protests were starting to fade until McNair went off last week. The fragile feelings of cranky old white men are what's generating new waves of protest.

 I am starting to think the protests are becoming counterproductive. All they seem to do at this point is rally Trump's base of bitter, mediocre conservative white people. I think one last, big gesture where everyone kneels and then they say screw y'all we're done with this on our own terms would be the best.

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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

@Manhole Eunuchsbane

Was it fun having the two headed monster named Wilson and Watson cave your skull in. Fuller enjoyed helping too!

Also, a dude’s leg almost fell off yesterday? I guess that’s football.

Man, I'm just getting buried in B, C and Thunderdome. If it weren't for Dynasty and Survivor, I'd be having no fun at all. Thankfully I'm doing fairly well in my Money League. 

Grats, Ty. Wilson and Watson are one hell of a one-two punch.

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1 hour ago, sperry said:

 I am starting to think the protests are becoming counterproductive. All they seem to do at this point is rally Trump's base of bitter, mediocre conservative white people. I think one last, big gesture where everyone kneels and then they say screw y'all we're done with this on our own terms would be the best.

I think you're right in that it served Donnie Two Scoops well as a distraction, but it's simply not going to hold up in the light of all the Mueller news that is hitting the fan. The Trumpites can stick their heads in the sand and pretend that this shit is important, but it's not going help their Fearless Leader much at the end of the day. 

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1 hour ago, sperry said:

 I am starting to think the protests are becoming counterproductive. All they seem to do at this point is rally Trump's base of bitter, mediocre conservative white people. I think one last, big gesture where everyone kneels and then they say screw y'all we're done with this on our own terms would be the best.

Protests are almost always 'counter-productive' in the beginning. It's not a game for people after immediate gratification. What was the early reaction to Gandhi's protests? Should Ali have caved when he became the most hated man in America? Should MLK have looked at the waves of anti-protest support/violence and decided on one last gesture? 

You protest to effect change, not to become popular.

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26 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Protests are almost always 'counter-productive' in the beginning. It's not a game for people after immediate gratification. What was the early reaction to Gandhi's protests? Should Ali have caved when he became the most hated man in America? Should MLK have looked at the waves of anti-protest support/violence and decided on one last gesture? 

 

Things are different than they were 50 years ago. Attention spans, news cycles, etc. are a fraction of what they once were, and "news" sources all firmly slant to the biases of their readers/viewers.

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12 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

Things are different than they were 50 years ago. Attention spans, news cycles, etc. are a fraction of what they once were, and "news" sources all firmly slant to the biases of their readers/viewers.

Some things are different today.  But the facts JA states remain true.  Serious change does not come out of playing by the rules of polite society.

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49 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

Some things are different today.  But the facts JA states remain true.  Serious change does not come out of playing by the rules of polite society.

Sperry's and Jon Arryn's facts are not necessarily mutually exclusive. It can both true that serious change does not come out of playing by the rules of polite society, and that this form of protesting is not the most effective in light of the changes he highlighted. 

I am also concerned that the flag protests sit in a kind of limbo between inaction, and not enough action, where they are just active enough to perpetually piss a certain (large) idiot segment of the population off, but ineffectual enough that they don't ever result in any kind of meaningful change, no matter how long they go on. Just a hunch of mine, not saying it is correct. 

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39 minutes ago, IamMe90 said:

I am also concerned that the flag protests sit in a kind of limbo between inaction, and not enough action, where they are just active enough to perpetually piss a certain (large) idiot segment of the population off, but ineffectual enough that they don't ever result in any kind of meaningful change, no matter how long they go on. Just a hunch of mine, not saying it is correct. 

Yeah, I think that's valid. Given that Kaepernick has some time on his hands, it seems to me that he should've/could've taken this to another level by now. I'm not sure what that would entail exactly, but anything would be better than nothing.

Also it concerns me that Trump has stole the narrative here. More people seem to think this is about disrespecting the flag/troops/anthem than it is about BLM at this point. That and it seems to me that this seems to have become more a matter of standing up for Kaepernick's blackballing or just sticking it to the President or various team owners for the players. The whole thing has kind of gone sideways at this point. 

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9 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, I think that's valid. Given that Kaepernick has some time on his hands, it seems to me that he should've/could've taken this to another level by now. I'm not sure what that would entail exactly, but anything would be better than nothing.

Also it concerns me that Trump has stole the narrative here. More people seem to think this is about disrespecting the flag/troops/anthem than it is about BLM at this point. That and it seems to me that this seems to have become more a matter of standing up for Kaepernick's blackballing or just sticking it to the President or various team owners for the players. The whole thing has kind of gone sideways at this point. 

What should he be doing? He's been doing interviews, running "Know your rights" camps, etc. Presumably, he is also staying in shape for the possibility of a team choosing to sign a new quarterback that has had success in the NFL (as opposed to the many signings of awful QBs over the last couple months). You do him a disservice by saying he's been doing nothing. I want to say he's in a catch-22 where he can do something and get criticized or do nothing and get criticized -- but I think it's more being outspoken and black in America than it is a catch-22 (not speaking directly to your criticism here ME -- but the broader pushback that I'm hearing/reading).

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