Hivemind, I Need Your Advice!

[all swedes are racist]

23 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

a pox on this "reliability" noise. The boss already broke that compact by denying leave that was requested months in advance for retributive reasons. If anyone should be saddled with the "unreliable" moniker, it's Tywin's boss.

yep, exactly. and further, everyone deserves to be able to take sick/personal/leave time, with little to no notice as necessary. 

[OldGimletEye]

On 10/29/2017 at 10:25 AM, r'hllor's redrum lobster said:

yep, exactly. and further, everyone deserves to be able to take sick/personal/leave time, with little to no notice as necessary. 

I’m fortunate enough, these days, that I can take personal time as I need to.

But, back in the day, when I used to work a shift and missed that shift, you know what happened? Some poor guy/gal, who had planned to go to their kids little league game or something that likely was important to them, had to completely revise their plans and come into work. And you know what happened if I the other guy/gal called of the last minute? Then I got called in on a day I had something else planned. Perhaps even extremely important personal business I had to get done.

Most people are very busy with work and family stuff and have to plan their days out. And, me personally, I loathe to mess with that, if I can avoid it. It’s just basic respect for other people’s time. There is a little bit of the golden rule operating here: I expect people to respect my time, so accordingly I feel just a tad obligated to respect theirs. My fellow employees might likely have nothing to do with the boss being an ass and the fact the boss is being an ass isn’t really their problem. It's my problem. I would be loathe to just throw that shit on them.

If I don’t get my crap done, then somebody has to carry the water for me. And I don’t like that. So, yeah, reliability is a big deal, in my opinion.

Of course, I’m not saying, there aren’t legitimate emergencies that happen. Like getting sick, your transmission blows up, or whatever. But, really, you should attempt to give as much notice as possible, if you’ve got to take a day off, for personal reasons, so others can plan accordingly.

Also, if you've been in the workforce for awhile, or maybe you are just starting out, there is or there will be a good chance a boss or client or whatever will ask you do something you'd rather not do. Maybe you don't want to do it because you consider it unethical, or maybe it's against a regulation or a rule, or maybe you consider doing it might be detrimental to the safety of others, or maybe you have very good personal reasons for not wanting to. In those cases, I'd get proficient at saying "no, I',m not going to do that" and not making or implying promises you have no intention of keeping. Sure it’s not easy to do and it is often very unpleasant, but I think you might find getting use to saying that, when the occasion, calls for it, might often just make your life a bit easier. And you might just end up feeling better about yourself too.

Also, I think, there is a cover your ass angle to this as well. And these days covering your ass is something you need to think about. If I had to explain to another potential employer why I was seeking new employment I much rather, I think, tell that employer that the boss and I had a disagreement over an issue and I resigned as a result of that disagreement, rather than telling the potential employer that I let the old boss think I was going to do something, with no intention of ever doing it, particularly if that action would  l likely lead me to getting sacked for cause.

Also, it would seem to me, that Tywin isn’t up a creek without a paddle here. He seems financially okay and has other job prospects. So if it were me, I’d request a meeting with the boss and discuss the issue with him. And if he refused to relent, I’d just resign right then and there. I don’t think letting the boss think your going to be at work and then not showing up is the best option here.

And if it isn’t clear, from what I know or am assuming (because there are some business’s that do have a legitimate need for people to work on holidays. I’m assuming this particular job isn’t one of them), I don’t approve of the boss’s actions here. I think he is not being reasonable at all.

[kairparavel]

If things are so toxic with this boss then they'll be amped up even more if/when you call out. So have your exit plan ready now because if you aren't terminated I imagine you'll be forced out in other ways. Maybe just put in your notice the week of Thanksgiving if you really don't need to be there.

I hope your field isn't 'small' like mine is where you are constantly bumping into someone who worked with you or someone who knows someone who worked you. This network of backdoor reference checking with your boss could occur during your next job search depending on the field.

 

[IamMe90]

I agree with OGE. I don't think Tywin owes his boss a lick personally, but I do think it's best to be upfront and not potentially screw someone else at the workplace over, rather than just not show up and hope he won't get fired. I mean, it sounds like he has made the conscious decision that he is going to leave this place anyway. 

[Iskaral Pust]

23 hours ago, IamMe90 said:

I agree with OGE. I don't think Tywin owes his boss a lick personally, but I do think it's best to be upfront and not potentially screw someone else at the workplace over, rather than just not show up and hope he won't get fired. I mean, it sounds like he has made the conscious decision that he is going to leave this place anyway. 

I agree but with a slightly different slant.  Tywin has behaved impeccably and professionally here (and it sure doesn't sound that way for his boss).  Why throw that away?  If you're on a collision course with a petty tyrant, why give them an excuse to fire you for cause and ruin your reputation?  If Tywin is willing to leave this job over this, then better to do it upfront and retain the moral high ground and good reputation. 

If you want to go scorched earth on the boss, then do it as an end-run before you resign or else during the exit interview.  Don't bring it up as a mitigating excuse when the boss is firing you for a no-show.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Sorry for not responding to everyone, but I really appreciate the advice. So basically I forced her hand today and was able to get her to allow me to find someone else who has the day off to cover for me and I was able to find someone. Unfortunately, the time window they gave me (Wednesday through Monday off) will still will be difficult to pull off and expensive as hell. What makes me so mad though is at the end of the meeting she told me this would be the last Thanksgiving that I'd be allowed to take off (which won't matter because I won't be here next year anyways, but still is messed up because I told her why this date above all others is so important) and she told me to tell my family to plan better in the future. Like what the actual ****? This party has been on the same date for like 30 years. I think they've got it pretty down to the T. And this is coming from a person who took months to get back to me about my PTO request. 

3 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I agree but with a slightly different slant.  Tywin has behaved impeccably and professionally here (and it sure doesn't sound that way for his boss).  Why throw that away?  If you're on a collision course with a petty tyrant, why give them an excuse to fire you for cause and ruin your reputation?  If Tywin is willing to leave this job over this, then better to do it upfront and retain the moral high ground and good reputation. 

If you want to go scorched earth on the boss, then do it as an end-run before you resign or else during the exit interview.  Don't bring it up as a mitigating excuse when the boss is firing you for a no-show.

Problem is I don't think it will matter either way. I don't think I'll ever be able to use this job as a reference in future applications other than to just list it on my resume. It really sucks because my prior boss (who has a new job title) would have given me a sterling recommendation. 

[OldGimletEye]

On 10/30/2017 at 6:08 PM, Tywin et al. said:

Sorry for not responding to everyone, but I really appreciate the advice. So basically I forced her hand today and was able to get her to allow me to find someone else who has the day off to cover for me and I was able to find someone. Unfortunately, the time window they gave me (Wednesday through Monday off) will still will be difficult to pull off and expensive as hell. What makes me so mad though is at the end of the meeting she told me this would be the last Thanksgiving that I'd be allowed to take off (which won't matter because I won't be here next year anyways, but still is messed up because I told her why this date above all others is so important) and she told me to tell my family to plan better in the future. Like what the actual ****? This party has been on the same date for like 30 years. I think they've got it pretty down to the T. And this is coming from a person who took months to get back to me about my PTO request. 

Glad you were able to get it worked out.

On 10/30/2017 at 6:08 PM, Tywin et al. said:

 Problem is I don't think it will matter either way. I don't think I'll ever be able to use this job as a reference in future applications other than to just list it on my resume. It really sucks because my prior boss (who has a new job title) would have given me a sterling recommendation. 

Perhaps not. But, I think when you butt heads with your boss or supervisor, you really do need to cross your t's and dot your i's, so you come out the situation smelling like roses. It might not be fair, but I think a lot of hiring managers might tend to side with the manager, so its good to cover your ass as best you can.

I haven't had a bad boss in a long while, but when I was around your age I had a bit of confrontation over a matter with my boss (well CO) over an issue. He was wrong and I was right, but still it can be a tricky matter when you gotta confront the boss, so that nobody can pin anything unfairly on you.

I think you handled the situation as well as it could be by confronting your boss.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

You handled this LIKE A BOWSE!

 

 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

she told me to tell my family to plan better in the future. Like what the actual ****?

I have an advantage in that other than some temp and landscape work, I have mostly been employed in academia my entire adult life.  But I have to say, if someone told me my family needs to "plan better" in that context - when you're giving notice long beforehand - I would walk out, at best.

[baxus]

10 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

What makes me so mad though is at the end of the meeting she told me this would be the last Thanksgiving that I'd be allowed to take off (which won't matter because I won't be here next year anyways, but still is messed up because I told her why this date above all others is so important) and she told me to tell my family to plan better in the future. Like what the actual ****?

I'd ask for that in writing and use it to file a complaint with HR. Basically, I'd make it my goal to make her life as miserable as I could before leaving the job. Not just her, the company in general. If I were you, I'd check if I had a case for a harassment law suit.

[Xray the Enforcer]

1 hour ago, baxus said:

I'd ask for that in writing and use it to file a complaint with HR. Basically, I'd make it my goal to make her life as miserable as I could before leaving the job. Not just her, the company in general. If I were you, I'd check if I had a case for a harassment law suit.

Same. Although to be honest I live in a one-party consent state, so I would have already been recording that conversation.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

Glad you were able to get it worked out.

Well it’s only partially worked out. I may still end up driving out to Cali. Head West, young man!

 

14 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

Perhaps not. But, I think when you butt heads with your boss or supervisor, you really do need to cross your t's and dot your i's, so you come out the situation smelling like roses. It might not be fair, but I think a lot of hiring managers might tend to side with the manager, so its good to cover your ass as best you can.

Honestly, why would that matter if I’m not going to use this boss as a reference?

13 hours ago, dmc515 said:

I have an advantage in that other than some temp and landscape work, I have mostly been employed in academia my entire adult life.  But I have to say, if someone told me my family needs to "plan better" in that context - when you're giving notice long beforehand - I would walk out, at best.

Trust me man, it took a lot of restraint to not spit venom back at her. Not the first time.

4 hours ago, baxus said:

I'd ask for that in writing and use it to file a complaint with HR. Basically, I'd make it my goal to make her life as miserable as I could before leaving the job. Not just her, the company in general. If I were you, I'd check if I had a case for a harassment law suit.

It’s too late for that, but management’s bonuses are in our hands today.

3 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

Same. Although to be honest I live in a one-party consent state, so I would have already been recording that conversation.  

Sneaky Lady Banhammer, you are.

[OldGimletEye]

On 10/31/2017 at 9:54 AM, Tywin et al. said:

Honestly, why would that matter if I’m not going to use this boss as a reference?

Well its hard for me to answer this without knowing all the details.

But, if you have to fill out another application and get the old: Reason For Leaving Last Job, you probably don't want to have put down got fired or terminated and then explain what happened. If you did get shit canned for missing work, I guess you could tell a whopper about it, but I think life is just a load easier when you don't have to make shit up, even if making shit up doesn't really bug you.

On 10/31/2017 at 9:54 AM, Tywin et al. said:

Well it’s only partially worked out. I may still end up driving out to Cali. Head West, young man!

I lived several years in California, when I was younger. Had a good time. Maybe too good of a time. But, anyway...

[The Mance]

If we've reached the bridge burning stage of this development may I suggest a group photo of you and the entire clan flipping the bird to this horrible boss?  All warm holiday smiles, standing around the beloved patriarch, and each with a giant middle finger...  "Happy Thanksgiving!"

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

18 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Well its hard for me to answer this without knowing all the details.

But, if you have to fill out another application and get the old: Reason For Leaving Last Job, you probably don't want to have put down got fired or terminated and then explain what happened. If you did get shit canned for missing work, I guess you could tell a whopper about it, but I think life is just a load easier when you don't have to make shit up, even if making shit up doesn't really bug you.

I lived several years in California, when I was younger. Had a good time. Maybe too good of a time. But, anyway...

Why would I have to lie though? I could simply say I left a toxic environment for best career prospects.

Besides, I’m a great talker/BSer. Interviews have never been hard for me.

And I also used to live in L.A. I read the book series this forum is based around drunk on Venice Beach over the course of three months.

[OldGimletEye]

On 10/31/2017 at 10:23 AM, Tywin et al. said:

Why would I have to lie though? I could simply say I left a toxic environment for best career prospects.

Besides, I’m a great talker/BSer. Interviews have never been hard for me.

And I also used to live in L.A. I read the book series this forum is based around drunk on Venice Beach over the course of three months.

Well some this might be just my own personal preference. But, if I got fired for cause, I'd feel a little uncomfortable saying, "I left a toxic environment for best career prospects." I've been around the block enough to know that a certain amount of bs is unavoidable, in this life, but I generally try my best to avoid it.

Also, I just don't think I would want to do something where somebody might question my integrity or trustworthiness. My personal opinion: That stuff is a good asset to have. It's hard to establish. And easy to destroy in an instant.

But, at this point, this all academic, as I think you handed this situation as well as it could be handled under the circumstances.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

Well some this might be just my own personal preference. But, if I got fired for cause, I'd feel a little uncomfortable saying, "I left a toxic environment for best career prospects." I've been around the block enough to know that a certain amount of bs is unavoidable, in this life, but I generally try my best to avoid it.

Also, I just don't think I would want to do something where somebody might question my integrity or trustworthiness. My personal opinion: That stuff is a good asset to have. It's hard to establish. And easy to destroy in an instant.

But, at this point, this all academic, as I think you handed this situation as well as it could be handled under the circumstances.

In a better environment I would agree, but it’s so toxic that it really doesn’t matter. For example, yesterday after my meeting the boss called a coworker in to her office. She’s been here for a decade or so. She’s never had any complaints about her work until about 6 months ago when they doubled her work load. Since then she’s been getting yelled at for not finishing it all, and as an understandable result, she’s stressed to the nines. So they wanted to talk to her about reducing her stress, and in doing so they insulted her and made her way more stressed out, and there only solution to reducing her stress levels was to literally tell her to “not stress out anymore, oh and btw, you’re numbers are really behind our expectations.”