Who (or what) is the Three-Eyed Crow?

[Ser Maverick]

I'm not sure if this is common knowledge around here, but I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I just discovered that the greenseer (Bloodraven) is not the three-eyed crow as Bran believes he is. The clues for this are fairly subtle but very apparent when looking for them:

First off the only characters that seem to have heard of the Three-eyed crow are Bran and Co:

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Meera's gloved hand tightened around the shaft of her frog spear. "Who sent you? Who is this three-eyed crow?" 

"A friend. Dreamer, wizard, call him what you will. The last green-seer."

Coldhands refers to him as the last greenseer and only seems to acknowledge him as the crow based on context.

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"No. They killed him long ago. Come now. It is warmer down deep, and no one will hurt you there. He is waiting for you."

"The three-eyed crow?" asked Meera.

"The greenseer." And with that she was off, and they had no choice but to follow.

Leaf actually corrects her when she refers to him as the crow.

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"Are you the three-eyed crow?" Bran heard himself say.

"A . . . crow?" The pale lord's voice was dry. His lips moving slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. "Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood." The clothes he wore were rotten and faded, spotted with moss and eaten through with worms, but once they had been black.

Even Bloodraven himself had no idea what he was being asked and thought Bran was referring to him being a member of the Night's Watch.

So now that we have established that Bloodraven is not the three-eyed crow, who, or what, is it?

[Tucu]

Assuming that the discrepancy is not just caused by Bloodraven being a bit of ouf his mind, my bet is on out-of-time Bran.

[Lost Melnibonean]

You quoted from Bran II, Dance 13. I think you should read Bran III, Dance 34...

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The last greenseer, the singers called him, but in Bran's dreams he was still a three-eyed crow.

...

The sight of him still frightened Bran—the weirwood roots snaking in and out of his withered flesh, the mushrooms sprouting from his cheeks, the white wooden worm that grew from the socket where one eye had been. He liked it better when the torches were put out. In the dark he could pretend that it was the three-eyed crow who whispered to him and not some grisly talking corpse.

Bran III, Dance 34

[Ser Maverick]

8 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

You quoted from Bran II, Dance 13. I think you should read Bran III, Dance 34...

Bran III, Dance 34

If what you’re implying is that this proves BR is the TEC, I have to disagree. Of course Bran still believes that BR is the crow, and by extension GRRM wants the reader to think he is as well, but my point is that Bran is wrong. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

8 minutes ago, Ser Maverick said:

If what you’re implying is that this proves BR is the TEC, I have to disagree. Of course Bran still believes that BR is the crow, and by extension GRRM wants the reader to think he is as well, but my point is that Bran is wrong. 

Well, it''s not the craziest idea, but...

[LiveFirstDieLater]

2 hours ago, Ser Maverick said:

I'm not sure if this is common knowledge around here, but I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I just discovered that the greenseer (Bloodraven) is not the three-eyed crow as Bran believes he is. The clues for this are fairly subtle but very apparent when looking for them:

First off the only characters that seem to have heard of the Three-eyed crow are Bran and Co:

Coldhands refers to him as the last greenseer and only seems to acknowledge him as the crow based on context.

Leaf actually corrects her when she refers to him as the crow.

Even Bloodraven himself had no idea what he was being asked and thought Bran was referring to him being a member of the Night's Watch.

So now that we have established that Bloodraven is not the three-eyed crow, who, or what, is it?

Howland Reed? Bran himself? it's not clear but I very much agree Bloodraven is not the Three eyed crow...

 

[Tucu]

I will live you this quote from the GoHH:

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This place belongs to the old gods still . . . they linger here as I do, shrunken and feeble but not yet dead. Nor do they love the flames. For the oak recalls the acorn, the acorn dreams the oak, the stump lives in them both

 

[Ckram]

10 hours ago, Ser Maverick said:

Even Bloodraven himself had no idea what he was being asked and thought Bran was referring to him being a member of the Night's Watch.

 

I have always interpreted that Bran saw BR as a three-eyed crow for the same reason Melisandre saw Bran as a wolf-headed boy.

In other words, BR didn't appear to Bran as a three-eyed crow because he wanted to, but because that was how Bran's powers allegorically depicted BR.

This would explain BR's confusion when he was asked about being a three-eyed crow.

[Foot_Of_The_King]

58 minutes ago, Ckram said:

I have always interpreted that Bran saw BR as a three-eyed crow for the same reason Melisandre saw Bran as a wolf-headed boy.

In other words, BR didn't appear to Bran as a three-eyed crow because he wanted to, but because that was how Bran's powers allegorically depicted BR.

This would explain BR's confusion when he was asked about being a three-eyed crow.

This was always my assumption. I've honestly never even considered the TEC to be a completely different entity. While my bet is still on BR, you've given me a lot to think about....

[AlaskanSandman]

Bran does describe having 3 different types of dreams. Tree dreams, wolf dreams, and three eyed crow dreams. 

The wolf dreams are him warging summer while he sleeps.

The tree dreams are the three eyed crow. Bran even comes to Jon as a tree. Though he does have 3 eyes, suggesting the three eyed crows taint or controll?

Then three eyed crow dreams. Which scare him. 

[AlaskanSandman]

Personally i think the Great Other is sending his own visions via sleep and flames, meaning he probably has a glass candle. I think Azor Ahai prophecy is a trick of his and a part of his plan.

[Yet Another ASOIAF Fan]

10 hours ago, Ser Maverick said:

I'm not sure if this is common knowledge around here, but I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I just discovered that the greenseer (Bloodraven) is not the three-eyed crow as Bran believes he is. The clues for this are fairly subtle but very apparent when looking for them:

First off the only characters that seem to have heard of the Three-eyed crow are Bran and Co:

Coldhands refers to him as the last greenseer and only seems to acknowledge him as the crow based on context.

Leaf actually corrects her when she refers to him as the crow.

Even Bloodraven himself had no idea what he was being asked and thought Bran was referring to him being a member of the Night's Watch.

So now that we have established that Bloodraven is not the three-eyed crow, who, or what, is it?

One thing you possibly missed is that the TEC never names himself, the one that came up with the name is Bran.  Also, why would Bran be symbolized as a crow as opposed to Bloodraven who was a Black Crow, aka Night's Watch member.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

4 hours ago, Ckram said:

I have always interpreted that Bran saw BR as a three-eyed crow for the same reason Melisandre saw Bran as a wolf-headed boy.

In other words, BR didn't appear to Bran as a three-eyed crow because he wanted to, but because that was how Bran's powers allegorically depicted BR.

This would explain BR's confusion when he was asked about being a three-eyed crow.

This. BR appears to Bran as a 3 eyed crow because his third eye is open (green seer) & because he was a crow (member of the NW) BR is confused because he doesn't see him self as a 3 eyed crow. Just like if Mel asked Bran "are you the wolf headed boy?" Bran would be confused by that. Or how Jojen sees him as the winged wolf. 

[Tucu]

2 hours ago, Yet Another ASOIAF Fan said:

Also, why would Bran be symbolized as a crow as opposed to Bloodraven who was a Black Crow, aka Night's Watch member.

That would be real-world symbolism. The name "Brân" in Welsh is usually translated as crow or raven. See the legend of Brân the Blessed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brân_the_Blessed

So Bran + third eye is a three-eyed-crow

[LynnS]

I have found it curious that D&D avoided using the term three-eyed crow and called Bloodraven the three-eyed raven instead.  The identity of  the 3EC would have been top of my list as a question for GRRM.  So I wonder why they deviated from the book in that regard.

It's curious that Bran rarely refers to the mysterious crow of his dreams as the three-eye crow.  Most often, he refers to it as only The Crow.  BR is now more tree than man making it more likely the BR is the tree that calls to Bran and the 3EC is something else.
 

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A Clash of Kings - Bran II

She should never have talked about the wolf dreams, Bran thought as Hodor carried him up the steps to his bedchamber. He fought against sleep as long as he could, but in the end it took him as it always did. On this night he dreamed of the weirwood. It was looking at him with its deep red eyes, calling to him with its twisted wooden mouth, and from its pale branches the three-eyed crow came flapping, pecking at his face and crying his name in a voice as sharp as swords.

It's Patchface who recognizes the crow when he sees him:

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A Dance with Dragons - Jon XI

Jon had expected that. The direwolf made Queen Selyse anxious, almost as much as Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun. "Ghost, stay."

They found Her Grace sewing by the fire, whilst her fool danced about to music only he could hear, the cowbells on his antlers clanging. "The crow, the crow," Patchface cried when he saw Jon. "Under the sea the crows are white as snow, I know, I know, oh, oh, oh." Princess Shireen was curled up in a window seat, her hood drawn up to hide the worst of the greyscale that had disfigured her face.

As far as Bran is concerned the crow lied to him:

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A Game of Thrones - Bran IV

"It was just a lie," he said bitterly, remembering the crow from his dream. "I can't fly. I can't even run."

"Crows are all liars," Old Nan agreed, from the chair where she sat doing her needlework. "I know a story about a crow."

Jorah Mormont confirms that crows are all liars:

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A Clash of Kings - Jon I

"I've always known that Robb would be Lord of Winterfell."

Mormont gave a whistle, and the bird flew to him again and settled on his arm. "A lord's one thing, a king's another." He offered the raven a handful of corn from his pocket. "They will garb your brother Robb in silks, satins, and velvets of a hundred different colors, while you live and die in black ringmail. He will wed some beautiful princess and father sons on her. You'll have no wife, nor will you ever hold a child of your own blood in your arms. Robb will rule, you will serve. Men will call you a crow. Him they'll call Your Grace. Singers will praise every little thing he does, while your greatest deeds all go unsung. Tell me that none of this troubles you, Jon . . . and I'll name you a liar, and know I have the truth of it."

 

Jon is my contender for the one who will be the 3EC with a voice sharp as swords; the one who will reach back through his dreams and open Bran's 3rd eye.  That is the meaning of the oak recalls the acorn and the acorn dreams the oak. Bran does the same for Jon; when his future self appears to Jon as tree-Bran and opens Jon's 3rd eye -  before Bran leaves the crypts of Winterfell and is wed to the tree.  Bran dreams of an event in his future (the acorn dreams of the oak) and the memory of the event bleeds back to the past (the oak recalls the acorn).

Jon hasn't embraced his powers yet, but he does have three eyes and will also see the acorn, the oak and the stump:

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A Clash of Kings - Bran IV

Two are open." Jojen pointed. "One, two.""I only have two."

"You have three. The crow gave you the third, but you will not open it." He had a slow soft way of speaking. "With two eyes you see my face. With three you could see my heart. With two you can see that oak tree there. With three you could see the acorn the oak grew from and the stump that it will one day become. With two you see no farther than your walls. With three you would gaze south to the Summer Sea and north beyond the Wall."

 

 

 

[Faera]

I am also in the camp that the Three-Eyed Crow is someone other than Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers. While it could be him and he doesn't realise this is how he appears to Bran in his dreams, I still feel the identity doesn't fit.

He claims to have been watching Bran and visiting his dreams since he was born. We know that the 3EC only turned up after Bran fell and there is another theory I follow that the 3EC only appears to people who are on the verge of death and convinces them to "open their third eye" or die. Granted, the only other example we have ever had for the 3EC praying on the dying and weak is Jojen, who appears sickly by nature and claims the crow came to him when he was dying from Greywater fever and the result of it visiting granted him his green dreams. BR seems to have been reaching out to Bran since before the 3EC did.

Plus, like a few others on this thread, I was struck by the confused reaction BR had to Bran referring to him as the "Three Eyed-Crow". BR presumed he was talking about the wildling term for men of the Night's Watch - a term seldom used south of the Wall - but only after seeming perplexed that Bran would address him this way.

Granted, this is a nickname that Bran and Jojen have given to the crow with three eyes that they both say visited them but there is the issue that the moniker doesn't completely fit with BR. He's associated with ravens more than crows and, while the two could be seen as interchangeable, this really doesn't feel like the case with BR. He is "Bloodraven" and is not known for his "three-eyes" but for either having one eye or "a thousand and one eyes". So, it doesn't really fit. As @LynnS said, it is perhaps telling that in the TV series, the 3EC has become the "Three-Eyed Raven" and lacks the menacing effect on Bran. It might suggest a dropped storyline in which a raven and crow distinction is made. They turned it into a hereditary title rather than an actual persona or identifyer for the old man in the tree who may or may not have been Brynden Rivers in the show.

16 hours ago, Ser Maverick said:

So now that we have established that Bloodraven is not the three-eyed crow, who, or what, is it?

I have a few ideas...

The first is that the 3EC is time-travelling Bran. He does, at least, fit the affiliation with the crows a little more than BR does even if it is in a self-fulfilling manner. His name meaning either "raven or crow" in Welsh aside, he also remembers going up to the Broken Tower to feed the crows out of his own hand. It is half the reason why Old Nan's story about the little boy who got struck by lightning while climbing and then got his eyes pecked out by crows didn't scare him because he's friendly with the carrion-feasting crows. Plus, it would give a new meaning to this line:

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"He's dead." Bran could taste the bile in his throat. "Meera, he's some dead thing. The monsters cannot pass so long as the Wall stands and the men of the Night's Watch stay true, that's what Old Nan used to say. He came to meet us at the Wall, but he could not pass. He sent Sam instead, with that wildling girl."
Meera's gloved hand tightened around the shaft of her frog spear. "Who sent you? Who is this three-eyed crow?"
"A friend. Dreamer, wizard, call him what you will. The last greenseer." The longhall's wooden door banged open. Outside, the night wind howled, bleak and black. The trees were full of ravens, screaming. Coldhands did not move.

2

Also, it might give a new spin on the notion that Coldhands is Bran's "Monster".

The second is that the 3EC is associated with the Green Men. They sound as though they are going to be important to Bran's story as they are mentioned repeatedly. It might also be them who are the source of Jojen's powers, which mysteriously seem to lose their power once the "Famous Five" get past the Wall and meet up with Coldhands. After all, going beyond the Wall to hunt for the 3EC was Jojen's idea -- Bran and Meera were never all that sold on the idea, even as they were doing it. 

The third and final idea I had is that there is an unseen entity that might be related to what the heck is going on with Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy... which might be a combination of both of the above. Maybe it is ultimate-form Bran after he's finished his Jedi training with both BR and the Green Men.

I think Bran's story with the 3EC, whether he is BR or his future self or something entirely different will come to light in the next book. I suspect his plot will finally start to dovetail with Jon's... and we'll see if Jon gets a visit from a 3EC himself.

[Springwatch]

It's been a while since I read the books, but I remember the voices sounded different. The 3EC in Bran's dream had a strong voice, it was confident and fluent - young-sounding too, there was something like "Say, have you got any corn?". I can't imagine Bloodraven saying that; he learned to speak in a different era entirely.

The 3EC has a voice and a personality - kind yet unsympathetic - that I can't place anywhere. A wildling, perhaps? Or a black brother?

1 hour ago, Faera said:

The third and final idea I had is that there is an unseen entity that might be related to what the heck is going on with Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy... which might be a combination of both of the above. Maybe it is ultimate-form Bran after he's finished his Jedi training with both BR and the Green Men.

I think Bran's story with the 3EC, whether he is BR or his future self or something entirely different will come to light in the next book. I suspect his plot will finally start to dovetail with Jon's... and we'll see if Jon gets a visit from a 3EC himself.

That would genuinely amaze me, so it might happen .

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Faera said:

I think Bran's story with the 3EC, whether he is BR or his future self or something entirely different will come to light in the next book. I suspect his plot will finally start to dovetail with Jon's... and we'll see if Jon gets a visit from a 3EC himself.

I don't think that Bran identifies himself as a crow at all.  He even sees himself as a tree in his coma dream; the tree that is looking at itself in the pool of water; looks up knowingly at Bran.  Bran sees himself as he will become.  

Jon sees Mormont's Raven cracking open an egg: 
 

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A Game of Thrones - Jon IX

"Good," Mormont said. "We've seen the dead come back, you and me, and it's not something I care to see again." He ate the egg in two bites and flicked a bit of shell out from between his teeth. "Your brother is in the field with all the power of the north behind him. Any one of his lords bannermen commands more swords than you'll find in all the Night's Watch. Why do you imagine that they need your help? Are you such a mighty warrior, or do you carry a grumkin in your pocket to magic up your sword?"

Jon had no answer for him. The raven was pecking at an egg, breaking the shell. Pushing his beak through the hole, he pulled out morsels of white and yoke.

The crow pecking at Bran's third eye:

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A Clash of Kings - Bran II

That night Bran prayed to his father's gods for dreamless sleep. If the gods heard, they mocked his hopes, for the nightmare they sent was worse than any wolf dream.

"Fly or die!" cried the three-eyed crow as it pecked at him. He wept and pleaded but the crow had no pity. It put out his left eye and then his right, and when he was blind in the dark it pecked at his brow, driving its terrible sharp beak deep into his skull. He screamed until he was certain his lungs must burst. The pain was an axe splitting his head apart, but when the crow wrenched out its beak all slimy with bits of bone and brain, Bran could see again. What he saw made him gasp in fear. He was clinging to a tower miles high, and his fingers were slipping, nails scrabbling at the stone, his legs dragging him down, stupid useless dead legs. "Help me!" he cried. A golden man appeared in the sky above him and pulled him up. "The things I do for love," he murmured softly as he tossed him out kicking into empty air.

The 3EC comes to Bran in disguise:

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A Game of Thrones - Jon IX

Tyrion Lannister had claimed that most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it, but Jon was done with denials. He was who he was; Jon Snow, bastard and oathbreaker, motherless, friendless, and damned. For the rest of his life—however long that might be—he would be condemned to be an outsider, the silent man standing in the shadows who dares not speak his true name. Wherever he might go throughout the Seven Kingdoms, he would need to live a lie, lest every man's hand be raised against him. But it made no matter, so long as he lived long enough to take his place by his brother's side and help avenge his father.

He remembered Robb as he had last seen him, standing in the yard with snow melting in his auburn hair. Jon would have to come to him in secret, disguised. He tried to imagine the look on Robb's face when he revealed himself. His brother would shake his head and smile, and he'd say … he'd say …

It isn't Rob whom Jon must help, it's Bran.

[Faera]

@LynnS Ah! So you think Jon is the Three-Eyed Crow post-death, post-third eye open? (Have I got that right? ) That would be an interesting, We already know that Bran-Jon has a really interesting relationship and connection, given their weird Weirwood Tree hook-up dream. It's an interesting idea though does this mean Jon can time travel too. If not then who do you think the 3EC is?

Either way, my point was that Bran is better affiliated with crows than BR is so it isn't beyond the realms of possibility it is the form he might take to his younger self, especially in a self-fulfilling manner. As I said, though, I'm not tethered to the idea.
 

2 hours ago, Springwatch said:

It's been a while since I read the books, but I remember the voices sounded different. The 3EC in Bran's dream had a strong voice, it was confident and fluent - young-sounding too, there was something like "Say, have you got any corn?". I can't imagine Bloodraven saying that; he learned to speak in a different era entirely.

 

On the one hand, I guess BR's voice can be as strong as he wants it to be in a dream. Then again, the more jovial voice might indicate someone who is "down with the kids" (aha) like Three-Eyes-Wide-Open!Jon or, again, ultimate form!Bran. Otherwise, it could be another character we have yet to see who is pulling the strings behind the scenes. Like, whatever sent Euron that dream telling him he could fly or something (or maybe he's just high on his shade-of-the-evening, IDK.)

[RhaegoTheUnborn]

Mormont's crow is the cocky one, from the way I'm interpreting it, I don't consider Mormont's and the Three-Eyed Crow as the same entity. Though that crow itself is also surrounded by mystery later on in the story.