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US Politics: Mueller Monday


Mexal

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11 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I'm already convinced of what he is. I thought I'd give him a chance to try and back up some of the empty platitudes he rolls out, without giving him an excuse to lunge for the fainting couch at my salty language, but no. There is no there, there. Unless "there" is in a Russian troll farm.

Well , glad that's settled. B)

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3 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

Well , glad that's settled. B)

You are, of course, free to engage with the links I posted or to support your assertions that Nazis aren't a threat (which was already catastrophically wrong at the time you first said it, right after they killed a woman in Charlottesville). You've never even bothered to meaningfully address my critiques of your statements. So what is it that you do here, besides make sweepingly inaccurate statements that you retreat from as soon as someone posts a link refuting you?

How many refuting links, "gosh, I didn't know" responses, and sadface emojis do you need to cycle through before you start educating yourself?

I am honestly curious about your history degree, because even a couple of basic history classes in college made me more comfortable with evidentiary analysis than you appear to be.

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8 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Nor was he a kindly and reluctant slave owner, as the Lost Cause whitewashers would have us believe. He was a cruel fucker. Long past time to stop lionizing traitors who killed hundreds of thousands of loyal American soldiers.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee/529038/

He was a prejudiced Southerner and a man of him times which doesn't excuse him by any means  By doing what he did, he committed treason which even then was crime punishable by execution and  inprisionment.  He was had more loyalty  to his state then he did the US government . But had his state of Virginia not seceded it's possible he would have become commander of the Union armies, Lee refused the position when Lincoln offered it. Him in charge might have saved a lot of live on both sides because whatever his fallings, He was a great General.  

 

You might want to keep in mind that the north was almost as prejudiced as the South. A lot of workers in the North didn't favor emnancpation because they were afraid of losing their jobs .

 

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1 hour ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Actually, to quote a certain musical, they don't have the votes.  That's the problem.  Whilst I agree that there is the political will to get something (anything!) done on the tax front, when they get into the details agreeing on what is proving harder than was thought.  And because of the way that things are currently in Washington, the cross aisle deal making that led to 1986 cannot exist.  That means that in a sense the Democrats are irrelevant and the Republicans who have eccentric views (e.g., the remaining deficit hawks) or who represents states or districts that would be disproportionately hurt may have disproportionate power.  I just don't know whether they can actually manage to get through anything truly transformative.  I actually think it is likely that something will happen (that is, that a tax bill will be passed).  But I think it is extremely unlikely that the "something" is real "tax reform" (e.g., actual overhaul of the Code).  

I don’t disagree with your breakdown of the situation, but I think the assumed goal is wrong. There was never going to be a transformative bill that was going to reform and overhaul the tax system. That was always a lie. What will happen is what was always intended to happen, a tax cut for the wealthy, a tax cut for corporations and the repeal of the estate tax, and it will be financed by closing loopholes that help middle class and poor families. That was always the game plan, consequences be damned. Trump’s entire presidency will revolve around how large of a cash grab they can get away with.

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3 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

You are, of course, free to engage with the links I posted or to support your assertions that Nazis aren't a threat (which was already catastrophically wrong at the time you first said it, right after they killed a woman in Charlottesville). You've never even bothered to meaningfully address my critiques of your statements. So what is it that you do here, besides make sweepingly inaccurate statements that you retreat from as soon as someone posts a link refuting you?

How many refuting links, "gosh, I didn't know" responses, and sadface emojis do you need to cycle through before you start educating yourself?

I am honestly curious about your history degree, because even a couple of basic history classes in college made me more comfortable with evidentiary analysis than you appear to be.

Ive been out of school for over 30 years , and stopped reading history books. Consequently Ive forgotten a great deal of what I learned. Last few months I've  been reading on different topics to refresh what  I've lost , which I'm sorry to say is a great deal. 

 

Most recent book I've been been reading  The Most Dangerous Enemy  A History of the Battle of Britain by Stephen Bungay B)

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28 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I'm already convinced of what he is. I thought I'd give him a chance to try and back up some of the empty platitudes he rolls out, without giving him an excuse to lunge for the fainting couch at my salty language, but no. There is no there, there. Unless "there" is in a Russian troll farm.

If you look at GARORKIN's posts as a whole, it's pretty clear that he is mostly just an unabashed fan of Fantasy and Sci-Fi lit, and Literature as a whole. The vast majority of his posts are some form of What is your favorite Fantasy/Sci-Fi/Horror novel/character/villain ever. I seriously doubt he's a Russkie Troll farm Bot. 

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13 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

You are, of course, free to engage with the links I posted or to support your assertions that Nazis aren't a threat (which was already catastrophically wrong at the time you first said it, right after they killed a woman in Charlottesville).

One of their number killed a woman in Charlottesville. To say "they" killed a woman in Charlottesville is akin to saying the BLM murdered 5 cops in Dallas on July 7th of last year. 

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52 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

/WTF was Kelly even trying to say here? Fucking bizarre.

I will seriously like a reading of the Crittenden Compromise which reads a further accomadation to the South than the Fugitive Slave Law and Dred Scott were and than ask what further compromise was needed. Also the general comfort that allowing Slavery to continue for another generation or two.

The sad truth is the "Lost Cause" is quite accepted in the nation in various forms for a very long time.

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53 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

We regularly have stories on the news about the shocking level of the childhood mortality numbers in Canada, where we like to compare ourselves to Sweden. Even though the Western Europe average is 7.2, we are at 7.3, almost twice Sweden's 4 deaths per 100,000.

I can't even imagine the level of outrage we would have here if we had the US level of 26.4.

The lack of outrage in the US is mind-boggling.  I'm not sure if it's evidence of the inherent misogyny within US culture or the problems of America's blind nationalism which makes people believe we are number 1 even in the face of facts that immediately refutes that idea.  

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1 minute ago, GAROVORKIN said:

I love how you twist things around Dante when you don't have have point to make.

The point I was making which  seems to gone over your head. He was great general had he been in charge of the Unions forces the war the Civil war might have ended a lot sooner. 

 

 

Wrong poster. For fuck's sake, if you're going to drop the civility that you pretend is important to you, at least read the name of the person you're responding to.

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3 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

 

The point I was making , was great general had he been in charge of the Unions forces the Civil war might have ended a lot sooner. 

Ya know, I was going to engage, but fuck that noise. I don't want to go into alternate history Civil War bullshit. Lee was a traitor, a fairly bad person, and is responsible for both attempting to keep slavery as an institution alive and for killing hundreds of thousands of US citizens. Fuck him. He was a good general, and that doesn't matter for shit.

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Just now, TheKitttenGuard said:

I will seriously like a reading of the Crittenden Compromise which reads a further accomadation to the South than the Fugitive Slave Law and Dred Scott were and than ask what further compromise was needed. Also the general comfort that allowing Slavery to continue for another generation or two.

The sad truth is the "Lost Cause" is quite accepted in the nation in various forms for a very long time.

I guess that excerpt quote from Kelly was from a Fox interview. It just blows my mind that an interviewer could hear/transcribe/tape that quote and not be prompted to ask for clarification.

"So, who do you think was unable to compromise in that instance? Are you putting the onus of that failure one one side or the other? What does that statement mean to you exactly?"  

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5 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

One of their number killed a woman in Charlottesville. To say "they" killed a woman in Charlottesville is akin to saying the BLM murdered 5 cops in Dallas on July 7th of last year. 

Except he wasn't a member of BLM and had specifically quit them because they weren't violent enough. But sure. 

Whereas the Nazis specifically went after Heather Heyer and called her a race traitor and commented on how it was good to have her killed.

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

The lack of outrage in the US is mind-boggling.  I'm not sure if it's evidence of the inherent misogyny within US culture or the problems of America's blind nationalism which makes people believe we are number 1 even in the face of facts that immediately refutes that idea.  

I can’t imagine that any man is ok with women dying through childbirth. Your second option seems quite likely however 

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1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I guess that excerpt quote from Kelly was from a Fox interview. It just blows my mind that an interviewer could hear/transcribe/tape that quote and not be prompted to ask for clarification.

"So, who do you think was unable to compromise in that instance? Are you putting the onus of that failure one one side or the other? What does that statement mean to you exactly?"  

You assume that this is an interview. It isn't. It's a propaganda piece. The conversation is scripted and rehearsed beforehand. 

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49 minutes ago, IamMe90 said:

Honestly, watching you two argue is like watching a stallion hoof a baby in the face. It's so one sided it's cruel. 

(This was not meant as an insult to you).

Really, I thought it was more like taste testing some cheap Wisconsin beer and then trying a delicious Minnesota microbrew.

:P

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5 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

One of their number killed a woman in Charlottesville. To say "they" killed a woman in Charlottesville is akin to saying the BLM murdered 5 cops in Dallas on July 7th of last year.

:rolleyes:

Thanks for splitting that hair so that we may judge Nazis as individuals.

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2 minutes ago, Eggegg said:

I can’t imagine that any man is ok with women dying through childbirth. Your second option seems quite likely however 

Lol.  Ok, I didn't say that, but the lack of legislation from a male dominated government suggests that men don't really care all that much about maternal mortality.  We already know a significant number of men in government are ok with women dying because of unsafe abortion.  

The second can be true even if misogyny is also true.  

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