Bronn Stone

MLB Offseason 2017/18 - Yu Broke My Heart, Ain't That A Shame

333 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, Ghjhero said:

I don’t see the need to change the system. I think pace of play has been blown out of proportion. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. 

Well, I think it is somewhat broke.  I don't have a problem with the pitch clock - I think most guys will adjust just fine.  Limiting it to only one mound visit per inning seems a bit extreme, but apparently teams get six "freebies" if I'm reading it right:

Quote

Under the proposal, each team would have received six so-called “no-change” visits that would have prevented the pitcher from leaving the game.

That seems pretty reasonable to me - even as Gary Sanchez is one of the most egregious offenders in frequent mound visits.

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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Nah, he traded a top 5 player who is the reigning MVP to a team with a very deep farm system for a bag of peanuts. And they've dumped other good players too for nothing. And wait, it gets better! Jeter's financial plan is to increase attendance by 50% while the fan base is planning on boycotting the team. If he cannot achieve the increase in attendance, they'll have to slash the roster salary even more! This team is going to be awful for years and the financial plan guarantees it all while making sure that Jeter still turns a personal profit.

This all sounds vaguely familiar, almost like it happened in Pittsburgh before, and is continuing to happen as we speak. This has been Pittsburgh baseball since 1992. I can go into painful detail if necessary, but it will be at great personal cost to my current well being. 

https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/01/16/pittsburgh-pirates-andrew-mccutchen-gerrit-cole-bob-nutting

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5 hours ago, Argonath Diver said:

What don't you like about limiting visits to the mound? Just curious. I think my guy Yadi has to approach the mound more than any catcher I can think of. Even still, I'm all for speeding up the process. I love pitchers that move right along, though perhaps because so many Cardinals pitchers take their sweet ass time on the mound. Pitching changes slow games to a crawl, especially in the post-season with longer commercial breaks - though I've no idea how to speed that up with so much advertisement money involved.

because the real problem is batters don't stay in the damn batters' box because the home plate umpire doesn't make them even though they have the authority and written rule provisions to do so.

The umpire is not obligated to grant ANY request for time out, let alone all of them.  Batters ask for time after seemingly every pitch, take a little stroll around foul territory, adjust their cup, tug on their gloves, move their helmet back into position, adjust their up again, spit out that last sunflower seed, adjust their cup AGAIN, and then finally put a foot back in the b-OH WAIT BETTER CHECK THE SIGNS FROM THE THIRD BASE COACH AGAIN BEFORE STEPPING in okay here we go.

Some hitters abuse this more than others and the Yankees and Red Sox both seem to feel a moral obligation to sign all of them which is why a typical Yankees/Red Sox game makes Cricket look like drag racing.

Limiting mound visits not only doesn't truly address the problem but breaks game balance because batters can still take all the time out they want.  Balls to that.

Use the rules they've already got, and make the batter pitcher and catcher stay standing where they're supposed to.  Encourage umpires to Just Say No.

 

Edited by Frances Bean Corbray

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Once again one of my sports teams is in a situation where they clearly ought to rebuild but won’t for PR reasons and so we’re back on the treadmill to nowhere. That said, in the ‘other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the show?’ kind of way, they continue to make small moves that almost always seem to be incremental improvements. It’s like I completely disagree with their thesis but have to tip my hat to their writing skills. 

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1 hour ago, Frances Bean Corbray said:

Encourage umpires to Just Say No.

#MeToo.

 

Too soon?

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7 hours ago, Ghjhero said:

I don’t see the need to change the system. I think pace of play has been blown out of proportion. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. 

I agree, I am unbothered with the current pace of play.

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6 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I agree, I am unbothered with the current pace of play.

Yeppers. Excessive "trips to the mound" by anyone, including it seems the folks selling popcorn, are getting ridiculous and annoying. And agree, the insane number off time outs until the batter feels ten thousand percent comfortable and ready to bat are getting ridiculous. But, I also don't mind the pace of the game. Another big NO vote to pitch clocks. As with the "automatic intentional walk", how much time was saved anyway last year? 

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On 1/16/2018 at 9:41 AM, Frances Bean Corbray said:

Cardinals fans understand and respect sorcery, they have their own version after all.

It's that one that turns utility infielders with funny names into .500 hitters in October and it is definitely a force to be reckoned with.

Mariners fans only fear sorcery, as the only form it takes for us is everything going wrong.

This is the slowest offseason  in recent memory.

On the HoF front, it looks like Edgar Martinez is gonna miss the Hall this year by one vote, which would be pretty on brand for this team's offseason

Edited by GrimTuesday

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22 hours ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

Rumor has it Ellsbury is going to the Brewers.  

https://mobile.twitter.com/BarstoolHubbs/status/955229465990361088

This is from the guy who broke Stanton and Girardi.  

Well, first, I prefer to give Jim Leyritz credit on Stanton.  Also, I haven't seen this even mentioned as a rumor on the handful of Yanks blogs I frequent.

Anyway, I really hope it's not true, and I have deep suspicions that Ellsbury would waive his NTC to go to the Brewers.  I also would really hate giving up Abreu - if that's the case the Brewers better be eating, like, at least $40 million of Ells' contract.  Even then, it's a ridiculous move to make for the richest team in baseball.  Abreu just ranked #77 in Baseball America's new top 100 prospects list.  You don't give that up in a salary dump.

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1 hour ago, dmc515 said:

Well, first, I prefer to give Jim Leyritz credit on Stanton.  Also, I haven't seen this even mentioned as a rumor on the handful of Yanks blogs I frequent.

Anyway, I really hope it's not true, and I have deep suspicions that Ellsbury would waive his NTC to go to the Brewers.  I also would really hate giving up Abreu - if that's the case the Brewers better be eating, like, at least $40 million of Ells' contract.  Even then, it's a ridiculous move to make for the richest team in baseball.  Abreu just ranked #77 in Baseball America's new top 100 prospects list.  You don't give that up in a salary dump.

The team hasn't done anything to improve the rotation so if it frees up money to bring in another starting pitcher I'm for giving up a prospect. They have to start trading some of these prospects  or risk losing them for nothing in the Rule Five draft. 

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2 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

The team hasn't done anything to improve the rotation so if it frees up money to bring in another starting pitcher I'm for giving up a prospect. They have to start trading some of these prospects  or risk losing them for nothing in the Rule Five draft. 

Sure, I'd just prefer they either use some of their top 100 prospects to actually go out and trade for a controllable starter or use lesser prospects in their deep system to rid themselves of Ellsbury.  Abreu is already on the 40-man, btw.

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9 hours ago, dmc515 said:

Sure, I'd just prefer they either use some of their top 100 prospects to actually go out and trade for a controllable starter or use lesser prospects in their deep system to rid themselves of Ellsbury.  Abreu is already on the 40-man, btw.

If Brian Cashman was willing to overpay for an established starter under team control he would have gone out and overpaid for Michael Fulmer or Gerrit Cole by now and that's a non-starter. And a garbage prospect or two isn't going to entice anyone to take on even half of a garbage contract like we're trying to get rid of. He could still leave as a minor league free agent like Jose Quintana did.

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7 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

If Brian Cashman was willing to overpay for an established starter under team control he would have gone out and overpaid for Michael Fulmer or Gerrit Cole by now and that's a non-starter. And a garbage prospect or two isn't going to entice anyone to take on even half of a garbage contract like we're trying to get rid of. He could still leave as a minor league free agent like Jose Quintana did.

Well, I really don't think it's too late to get a starter like Fulmer or someone else just cuz Cole was traded - even if that means waiting until the during the season to pick up another starter.  They can go into the season as is and I'd be perfectly comfortable - more so than giving Abreu up just so someone will take Ellsbury. 

And there's a vast difference between "garbage" prospects and their top-six prospects that were just ranked in BA's top-100.  The likes of Bryan Mitchell enticed San Diego to take on Headley's last year and $13 million - so yeah, I think they can come up with a package that saves $20-25 million of Ells' contract without giving up one of their top (6) prospects in BA's 100.

Cashman has demonstrated he's pretty canny about trading fringe-40 man guys right before the Rule 5 for cool lower level prospects the past two years - before last year they got Zack Littell, who was the main piece in picking up Jaime Garcia (obviously the latter didn't work out, but still). 

Anyway, point is Abreu is not a fringe 40-man guy and has absolutely no relevance to letting someone walk like they did with Quintana - who was a six-year minor league free agent and signed elsewhere precisely because he was not added to the 40, which again, Abreu already is on.

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1 hour ago, dmc515 said:

Well, I really don't think it's too late to get a starter like Fulmer or someone else just cuz Cole was traded - even if that means waiting until the during the season to pick up another starter.  They can go into the season as is and I'd be perfectly comfortable - more so than giving Abreu up just so someone will take Ellsbury. 

And there's a vast difference between "garbage" prospects and their top-six prospects that were just ranked in BA's top-100.  The likes of Bryan Mitchell enticed San Diego to take on Headley's last year and $13 million - so yeah, I think they can come up with a package that saves $20-25 million of Ells' contract without giving up one of their top (6) prospects in BA's 100.

Cashman has demonstrated he's pretty canny about trading fringe-40 man guys right before the Rule 5 for cool lower level prospects the past two years - before last year they got Zack Littell, who was the main piece in picking up Jaime Garcia (obviously the latter didn't work out, but still). 

Anyway, point is Abreu is not a fringe 40-man guy and has absolutely no relevance to letting someone walk like they did with Quintana - who was a six-year minor league free agent and signed elsewhere precisely because he was not added to the 40, which again, Abreu already is on.

I can't see the Tigers coming down on Fulmer anytime soon honestly, in fact down the stretch they might jack the price up if they see that he might put the Yankees over the top. And I'm not that blown away by him to be thrilled about trading multiple blue chip prospects for a guy with shoulder issues just because he's under team control for five seasons. They have no starting pitching depth if anyone goes down, Cessa isn't going to cut it. Sheffield hasn't pitched above Double - A, so that leaves maybe Chance Adams.

Jaime Garcia was absolute junk, my goddaughter was still in the womb and probably could have pitched better than him at that point.

He's canny but is he canny enough into finding 1) A team that Ellsbury is willing to waive his NTC for and 2) one willing to take one or more second or third tier prospects to take a even half of a contract as bad as Ellsbury? I don't think he is, he's a man after all and not a practitioner of blood magic.  If I were a GM and all he and all he offers is a Bryan Mitchell-type I would be insulted if he thought I would take $30m for a couple of Bryan Mitchells in return for the privilege of taking that on.  

Edited by Arch-MaesterPhilip

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6 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

They have no starting pitching depth if anyone goes down, Cessa isn't going to cut it. Sheffield hasn't pitched above Double - A, so that leaves maybe Chance Adams.

I'll take Cessa/Adams/German (with Sheffield possibly ready after the ASB) as the 6/7/8 starters over most anyone else's outside the Astros and Dodgers.  Lots can and will change with pitching over the course of a season, and I'd rather keep Abreu as a chip than trade him in a salary dump.

11 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

He's canny but is he canny enough into finding 1) A team that Ellsbury is willing to waive his NTC for

Therein lies the problem.  I don't think Ells is willing to waive his NTC to anyone that will take him.  If he was, I think he'd be gone by now.  Maybe that changes midseason.

13 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

If I were a GM and all he and all he offers is a Bryan Mitchell-type I would be insulted if he thought I would take $30m for a couple of Bryan Mitchells in return for the privilege of taking that on.

The Yankee prospects ranked 7 to almost 20 are unquestionably better assets than a "Bryan Mitchell-type." 

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18 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

I'll take Cessa/Adams/German (with Sheffield possibly ready after the ASB) as the 6/7/8 starters over most anyone else's outside the Astros and Dodgers.  Lots can and will change with pitching over the course of a season, and I'd rather keep Abreu as a chip than trade him in a salary dump.

Therein lies the problem.  I don't think Ells is willing to waive his NTC to anyone that will take him.  If he was, I think he'd be gone by now.  Maybe that changes midseason.

The Yankee prospects ranked 7 to almost 20 are unquestionably better assets than a "Bryan Mitchell-type." 

Cessa is a long man at best and I don't think they are going to rush Sheffield, I think they're going to take time with him and build him up properly in the minors. Sure lots can change and with the Yankees it can go tits up quick. We can get 2016 Severino back, Tanaka's elbow is still a time bomb and Sonny Gray isn't a picture of health. Then we're fucked and forced to deal Sheffield, Frazier and who knows else to fill the gaps.

Sure they are but are even two or three of those lesser guys enough to convince someone to take on an injury prone centerfielder due $60m+?

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2 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

Sure they are but are even two or three of those lesser guys enough to convince someone to take on an injury prone centerfielder due $60m+?

As I intimidated above, I don't think they're going to get another team to eat more than $20-25 million max of Ells' contract.  

As for the first graph, of course there are concerns with literally every member of the Yanks staff, but you can also go glass half empty on literally every staff in baseball.  Such is pitching.  Bottomline, that means you need to maximize your assets, and salary dumping Abreu is not doing so.

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Just now, dmc515 said:

As I intimidated above, I don't think they're going to get another team to eat more than $20-25 million max of Ells' contract.  

As for the first graph, of course there are concerns with literally every member of the Yanks staff, but you can also go glass half empty on literally every staff in baseball.  Such is pitching.  Bottomline, that means you need to maximize your assets, and salary dumping Abreu is not doing so.

Eating $25m is enough is to free up money to sign even Lance Lynn or Alex Cobb. But if leaves wiggle room to try and sign Darvish and stay under the Luxury Tax Threshold.

The glass that is the Yankee Starting pitching is less empty than the other contenders I think. How many of our guys in the top 100 would you be willing to part with without feeling like we've been robbed? I think using Abreu to entice a team to eat some of the 63+m is maximizing our assets, that's where our disagreement is.

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29 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

Eating $25m is enough is to free up money to sign even Lance Lynn or Alex Cobb. But if leaves wiggle room to try and sign Darvish and stay under the Luxury Tax Threshold.

Well, let's remember that would be around $8m AAV.  So, yeah, they'd have enough room to sign Lynn or Cobb, but still not enough to sign Darvish and stay under the cap.  Frankly, I'd rather they spend the money they have left on a veteran infielder and/or a sixth starter that, ya know, costs as much as sixth starters should cost.

36 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

How many of our guys in the top 100 would you be willing to part with without feeling like we've been robbed? I think using Abreu to entice a team to eat some of the 63+m is maximizing our assets, that's where our disagreement is.

Yes, this is exactly where we disagree.  As I said from the get-go, the richest team in baseball trading one of their top 100 prospects for salary relief is crazy pill territory.

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