Bronn Stone

MLB Offseason 2017/18 - Yu Broke My Heart, Ain't That A Shame

333 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Well, let's remember that would be around $8m AAV.  So, yeah, they'd have enough room to sign Lynn or Cobb, but still not enough to sign Darvish and stay under the cap.  Frankly, I'd rather they spend the money they have left on a veteran infielder and/or a sixth starter that, ya know, costs as much as sixth starters should cost.

Yes, this is exactly where we disagree.  As I said from the get-go, the richest team in baseball trading one of their top 100 prospects for salary relief is crazy pill territory.

Even signing Lynn or Cobb is an improvement over bringing back CC, they should have let him walk when he opted out.

I think crazy pill territory is the fact that ownership is even concerned with staying under the line.

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13 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

Even signing Lynn or Cobb is an improvement over bringing back CC, they should have let him walk when he opted out.

I think crazy pill territory is the fact that ownership is even concerned with staying under the line.

Meh, I was fine with giving CC 10 and incentives for one year over what Cobb and Lynn were supposed to get.  But with the way the market is going...

And yes, staying under the threshold is the basis of the crazy pills.

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2 hours ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

Even signing Lynn or Cobb is an improvement over bringing back CC, they should have let him walk when he opted out.

I think crazy pill territory is the fact that ownership is even concerned with staying under the line.

I agree with dmc about trading Abreu for salary cap relief and agree with you that being concerned about staying under the line is idiotic.

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You know what I’m sick of? All these think pieces about how Bonds and Clemens deserve to be in the Hall of Fame that somehow forget to mention Sosa, Manny, and Sheffield. A good portion of these apologetic think pieces are written by BBWAA voters, nearly all of whom have left Sosa, Manny, and Sheffield off their ballots. Personally I don’t think known juicers should be in the HoF, but if you’re of the opinion that juicers should be allowed in then Sosa, Manny, and Sheffield should be on your fucking ballot. Their numbers make them clear HoFers. 

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I think the argument you'd get for Bonds above everyone else is that he was having a HoF projected career before he started juicing. 

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46 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think the argument you'd get for Bonds above everyone else is that he was having a HoF projected career before he started juicing. 

I'd say the same argument applies to Clemens.

Let me also say I believe Curt Schilling has the record and requisite big moments to merit HoF inclusion, but fuck him forever. May he never get in, and die bitter about it.

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15 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

I'd say the same argument applies to Clemens.

Let me also say I believe Curt Schilling has the record and requisite big moments to merit HoF inclusion, but fuck him forever. May he never get in, and die bitter about it.

Eh, I think Bonds is in a class of his own. And I’m not just talking about baseball. Bonds is the best athlete we’ve seen in our lifetimes (I say that as a guy in his late twenties to someone who I think is in his early or mid-thirties). He’s better than Jordan was. He’s better than Gretzky was. He’s better than Tiger was. He’s better than Federer is. He’s better than Serena is. He’s better than Rice was and Brady is. He’s the best, relative to his sport, we’ve ever seen. A few months ago I heard a breakdown of his stats and advanced analytics compared to Ken Griffey Jr. and it was an absolute joke. He made Griffey look like an average player, and Griffey is one of the five or ten best players of the last 25 years. Bonds stands alone atop the sports mountain.

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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Eh, I think Bonds is in a class of his own. And I’m not just talking about baseball. Bonds is the best athlete we’ve seen in our lifetimes (I say that as a guy in his late twenties to someone who I think is in his early or mid-thirties). He’s better than Jordan was. He’s better than Gretzky was.

No, just no.  Jordan is better, easily.  I'm not a hockey fan, but I suspect most that are would say the same about Gretzky.  Maybe this is the 4 or 5 years I got on you, but I remember all of Jordan's six rings.  He was extraordinarily dominant.  And it's not just his six rings to Bonds' zero.  Granted, it's much harder for one guy to carry a team to a championship in baseball, but Bonds' playoff numbers were pedestrian to plain bad outside of 2002 (in which he was indeed dominant).  Jordan took his game to the next level when it mattered most, he was the definition of clutch and everyone knew for those six years they were playing for second.  He's the greatest player ever in his sport (as is Gretzky), which Bonds can't say the same even if you ignore his head growing six sizes in his mid-thirties.

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17 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

No, just no.  Jordan is better, easily.  I'm not a hockey fan, but I suspect most that are would say the same about Gretzky.  Maybe this is the 4 or 5 years I got on you, but I remember all of Jordan's six rings.  He was extraordinarily dominant.  And it's not just his six rings to Bonds' zero.  Granted, it's much harder for one guy to carry a team to a championship in baseball, but Bonds' playoff numbers were pedestrian to plain bad outside of 2002 (in which he was indeed dominant).  Jordan took his game to the next level when it mattered most, he was the definition of clutch and everyone knew for those six years they were playing for second.  He's the greatest player ever in his sport (as is Gretzky), which Bonds can't say the same even if you ignore his head growing six sizes in his mid-thirties.

:spank: :spank::spank:

Get. Out. Of. The. Way. Of. My. Scorching. Hot. Take!

:P

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4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Eh, I think Bonds is in a class of his own. And I’m not just talking about baseball. Bonds is the best athlete we’ve seen in our lifetimes (I say that as a guy in his late twenties to someone who I think is in his early or mid-thirties). He’s better than Jordan was. He’s better than Gretzky was. He’s better than Tiger was. He’s better than Federer is. He’s better than Serena is. He’s better than Rice was and Brady is. He’s the best, relative to his sport, we’ve ever seen. A few months ago I heard a breakdown of his stats and advanced analytics compared to Ken Griffey Jr. and it was an absolute joke. He made Griffey look like an average player, and Griffey is one of the five or ten best players of the last 25 years. Bonds stands alone atop the sports mountain.

This goes well past my argument. I think Clemens gets voter consideration because his pre-juiced performance was HoF material. I have no investment in arguing how singularly dominant Bonds was.

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6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Eh, I think Bonds is in a class of his own. And I’m not just talking about baseball. Bonds is the best athlete we’ve seen in our lifetimes (I say that as a guy in his late twenties to someone who I think is in his early or mid-thirties). He’s better than Jordan was. He’s better than Gretzky was. He’s better than Tiger was. He’s better than Federer is. He’s better than Serena is. He’s better than Rice was and Brady is. He’s the best, relative to his sport, we’ve ever seen. A few months ago I heard a breakdown of his stats and advanced analytics compared to Ken Griffey Jr. and it was an absolute joke. He made Griffey look like an average player, and Griffey is one of the five or ten best players of the last 25 years. Bonds stands alone atop the sports mountain.

As someone in his mid-30s I can clearly recall a time when Barry Bonds was one of the best players in baseball. Not the best, and certainly not the best ever, but one of the best. The only reason you can now make the above argument is because of his steroid use. 

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I was trying to figure out if Tywin was joking or not. Bonds is an all-time great but he is absolutely not the best baseball player ever, let alone athlete. But I will say that his four year run, starting at age 36(absurd in itself), when his OBP was easily over .500 those years was one of the craziest things I've ever seen in sports, steroids or not. It seemed like you couldn't make a mistake against him or he was hitting a moonshot literally every single time. 

 

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2 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

This goes well past my argument. I think Clemens gets voter consideration because his pre-juiced performance was HoF material. I have no investment in arguing how singularly dominant Bonds was.

 

25 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

As someone in his mid-30s I can clearly recall a time when Barry Bonds was one of the best players in baseball. Not the best, and certainly not the best ever, but one of the best. The only reason you can now make the above argument is because of his steroid use. 

I was being a little sarcastic. I figured the over the top take would have conveyed that. As far as Bonds actual ranking goes, I do think it's fair to say he was the best everyday player of his generation and one of the best everyday players of all time, and all the analysts I've listen to today have said as much. And the steroids don't bother me because at this point I just assume that everyone was juicing back then.  

Dante,

I actually agree that he probably deserves to be in. My only question is how long was his pre-juicing era? It looks like he had a solid run for eight years (his 20's) then was kind average for a few years (early 30's, not surprising he started to dip) and then went back to being dominate again (i.e. when he probably started juicing in his early to mid 30's). Does a decade of seemingly untainted excellence get you in if we assume his career just ended there?

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17 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Dante,

I actually agree that he probably deserves to be in. My only question is how long was his pre-juicing era? It looks like he had a solid run for eight years (his 20's) then was kind average for a few years (early 30's, not surprising he started to dip) and then went back to being dominate again (i.e. when he probably started juicing in his early to mid 30's). Does a decade of seemingly untainted excellence get you in if we assume his career just ended there?

I think a decade of untainted excellence probably should be worth it. I was just a kid and in my sports fan infancy during Clemens' pre-juicing days, so my perspective will be a little off, but he was just amazing in those early years.

Shit, I guess his attempt to rehabilitate his image with Boston fans is working. 

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So the Brewers have both traded for Christian Yelich and signed Lorenzo Cain.  That seems...weird.  Both are very good center fielders - but both somewhat lost value if they're not manning center.  Anyway, the package for Yelich was pretty impressive - Lewis Brinson was maybe the top outfield prospect 16 months ago, and Harrison and Diaz are no slouches either.  Seems like a good deal for both sides - Yelich is worth a lot.  One would think this would put to rest any Ellsbury to Brewers rumors.

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5 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

I think a decade of untainted excellence probably should be worth it. I was just a kid and in my sports fan infancy during Clemens' pre-juicing days, so my perspective will be a little off, but he was just amazing in those early years.

Shit, I guess his attempt to rehabilitate his image with Boston fans is working. 

I only remember him from his Yankees days, so I can't comment on what he was in beantown. 

 

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37 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I only remember him from his Yankees days, so I can't comment on what he was in beantown. 

 

Look up his stats. Especially 86-88. Just dominating.

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Superbowl Sunday means but one important thing: Baseball is about to start!

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4 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Superbowl Sunday means but one important thing: Baseball is about to start!

It's the only thing I'm talking about at this party.  

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