“For the watch”

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

28 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

How does a person bring back a poster‘s 2014 work and give them the credit for a job well done?

 

Haha I don't know. I suppose we could copy it & tag them in a new thread? 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

20 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

Indeed.  But fact checking is as welcome in a thread like this as after a Donald Trump twitterstorm.  Kudos for patiently relying on the books, reason and logic but that is no match for emotion and the obstinate desire to stand one's ground come what may.  I am curious as to whether these kind of threads will continue after TWOW.  The head says they shouldn't but the gut says they will.

I wish we had a like button. 

[The Fattest Leech]

26 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

Indeed.  But fact checking is as welcome in a thread like this as after a Donald Trump twitterstorm.  Kudos for patiently relying on the books, reason and logic but that is no match for emotion and the obstinate desire to stand one's ground come what may.  I am curious as to whether these kind of threads will continue after TWOW.  The head says they shouldn't but the gut says they will.

Sadly, I agree with this.

And even sadder is that as soon as this Jon/Stark hate thread is closed, and the other Jon/Stark Succession hate thread is closed, another one will pop up within ten minutes with the same exact repeat information in the OP that goes against the book info, all to start a shitstorm.

Can't wait

[RhaegoTheUnborn]

Gotta love it when "know-it-all" trolls spew nonsense and inaccuracies, yet when the book quotes come into equation , they no longer respond to replies. Lol

[Blackwater Revenant]

On 2017-12-4 at 9:16 PM, Bowen Marsh said:

<snip> Jon was wrong and you know it.

Wrong. Jon was right. You can cry treason, argue that it was illegal, claim that he wasn't obedient to the usurping scum bag Ramsey, blah, blah, blah...

But when it comes down being a good and decent person trying to do what is right, Jon was in the right, and you know it!

If letting your little sister (or anyone for that matter) get raped, abused and tortured by a sadistic fuck - who's position and marriage to fArya, by the way, was acquired through illegal and reprehensible means - is right, then we all should strive to be wrong more often.

[Damsel in Distress]

1 hour ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

Wrong. Jon was right. You can cry treason, argue that it was illegal, claim that he wasn't obedient to the usurping scum bag Ramsey, blah, blah, blah...

But when it comes down being a good and decent person trying to do what is right, Jon was in the right, and you know it!

If letting your little sister (or anyone for that matter) get raped, abused and tortured by a sadistic fuck - who's position and marriage to fArya, by the way, was acquired through illegal and reprehensible means - is right, then we all should strive to be wrong more often.

Jon was wrong.  The mission to take his sister from Ramsay is treason.  Jon was wrong but he can still be wight.

Bran had a vision of Jon's body growing cold in the ice cells.  It is logical for the NW to hold his body temporarily so they can prove to the warden of the north that they have cleaned their internal troubles and took care of their demented lord commander Jon Snow.  His body is the only proof that the Boltons will believe and the ice cells is as good a place as any to deposit his corpse.  If the WW beat Ramsay to the wall there could be trouble.  The WW are the ones who are the most likely to reanimate Jon's body and make him their wight. 

[Mon ami]

On 11/2/2017 at 10:05 AM, Richard Hoffman said:

My question to you fine folk here, is it possible that the attackers were being warged? Or if not warged some other magic? Why couldn’t Jon get his blade out? He hadn’t been stabbed yet, and he wasn’t new to fighting. This part could be chalked up to shock I guess, but the stabbing of Jon snow still makes 0 sense to me as it accomplished nothing. 

Jon's oath breaking decision to attack Ramsay and Bowen's reaction to it is one of the most discussed topics in the fandom.  I side with those who say that Jon betrayed that NW and Bowen had no choice but to stop him. 

I don't think the attackers were warged.  What they did makes sense when you consider what Jon said he was going to do.  The men do not need to be warged to take action to stop his foolish plans to attack the Boltons.  Jon's intent was stupid and suicidal as well as oathbreaking. 

The stabbing of Jon Snow made perfect sense.  Bowen Marsh and the men of the NW couldn't let their commander lead a wildling army attack the Warden of the north and his family.  It accomplished a lot.  It stopped a madman from starting a war that the watch could not win against people they should be protecting from the white walkers.

[the trees have eyes]

2 minutes ago, Mon ami said:

Jon's oath breaking decision to attack Ramsay and Bowen's reaction to it is one of the most discussed topics in the fandom.  I side with those who say that Jon betrayed that NW and Bowen had no choice but to stop him. 

I don't think the attackers were warged.  What they did makes sense when you consider what Jon said he was going to do.  The men do not need to be warged to take action to stop his foolish plans to attack the Boltons.  Jon's intent was stupid and suicidal as well as oathbreaking. 

The stabbing of Jon Snow made perfect sense.  Bowen Marsh and the men of the NW couldn't let their commander lead a wildling army attack the Warden of the north and his family.  It accomplished a lot.  It stopped a madman from starting a war that the watch could not win against people they should be protecting from the white walkers.

It's not about "oathbreaking" for Marsh et al.  Surely you realise that.  Whatever the truth of the pink letter they think Stannis has lost and Ramsay has won the civil war in the North and they intend to be aligned with the winning side.  Taking out Jon before he leads a wildling force (no men of the NW) in response to Ramsay's unmeetable demands, and let's bear in mind Ramsay would have killed this son of Ned Stark anyway, is a way of showing Ramsay they are on his side.  Not that they weren't before with their correspondence with Tywin and attempt to elect the candidate the IT wanted, one Janos Slynt, but it's just more of the same.

And I keep pointing this out but the NW amounts to 200 or 300 men with most of the rangers, the fighting men, dead and a few builders and stewards left cowering in three castles.  They're militarily insignificant.  There is nothing left to preserve other than the crutch of the identity and purpose they have wrongly believed for most of their lives.  For Marsh it's a comfort blanket and a false reality he can't shift out of: we see that repeatedly with Jon splashing the water in front of his face but he can't see that their real purpose is achieved by allying with Stannis and the Wildlings to build up manpower and resources for the coming storm.  Jon has the right of it tactically and, allowing for the dubious veracity of the pink letter, meets Ramsay's threat to cut his heart out in the best way possible but a man with a beard threw us a curve ball and left us hanging off a cliff as he so loves to.

"It stopped a madman from starting a war that the watch could not win"

Duh, that would be why he took none of the remaining men of the militarily insignificant NW with him (it's probably 100 at most at CB now he has started garrisoning the other castles and the men from The Shadow Tower and Eastwatch have returned to their posts).  This "madman" left the stewards and builders to cower in their castle and count their stores while he took the fighting men, the wildlings, to meet the threat from the south.  And of course this frees him from the accuastions of abusing his position as LC to use the NW as a private army and involve it in the power struggles of the realm.  Well it should but not around here......

[Clegane'sPup]

16 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

The mission to take his sister from Ramsay is treason.

In my best Tormund voice --- Har, I say, Har Har!

I know this is a futile and useless exercise. Humor me.

How did you come to the above conclusion?

[Clegane'sPup]

19 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

And even sadder is that

My favorite poofy bouffant board member, what is sadder is that some of the people actually believe what they post.

Edit: I shouldn't do this but I'm gonna do it anyway. I miss Jon Stewart. John Oliver is coming close to replacing him.

Whataboutism and trolling ---- for fun and for free.

 

[Blackwater Revenant]

20 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

Jon was wrong.  The mission to take his sister from Ramsay is treason.  Jon was wrong but he can still be wight.

Well...I'd say it's right to commit this wrong, and it's wrong to be wight. So yes, Jon would be right and wrong, if he were to be wight. 

[The Sunland Lord]

23 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

It's not about "oathbreaking" for Marsh et al.  Surely you realise that.  Whatever the truth of the pink letter they think Stannis has lost and Ramsay has won the civil war in the North and they intend to be aligned with the winning side.  Taking out Jon before he leads a wildling force (no men of the NW) in response to Ramsay's unmeetable demands, and let's bear in mind Ramsay would have killed this son of Ned Stark anyway, is a way of showing Ramsay they are on his side.  Not that they weren't before with their correspondence with Tywin and attempt to elect the candidate the IT wanted, one Janos Slynt, but it's just more of the same.

And I keep pointing this out but the NW amounts to 200 or 300 men with most of the rangers, the fighting men, dead and a few builders and stewards left cowering in three castles.  They're militarily insignificant.  There is nothing left to preserve other than the crutch of the identity and purpose they have wrongly believed for most of their lives.  For Marsh it's a comfort blanket and a false reality he can't shift out of: we see that repeatedly with Jon splashing the water in front of his face but he can't see that their real purpose is achieved by allying with Stannis and the Wildlings to build up manpower and resources for the coming storm.  Jon has the right of it tactically and, allowing for the dubious veracity of the pink letter, meets Ramsay's threat to cut his heart out in the best way possible but a man with a beard threw us a curve ball and left us hanging off a cliff as he so loves to.

"It stopped a madman from starting a war that the watch could not win"

Duh, that would be why he took none of the remaining men of the militarily insignificant NW with him (it's probably 100 at most at CB now he has started garrisoning the other castles and the men from The Shadow Tower and Eastwatch have returned to their posts).  This "madman" left the stewards and builders to cower in their castle and count their stores while he took the fighting men, the wildlings, to meet the threat from the south.  And of course this frees him from the accuastions of abusing his position as LC to use the NW as a private army and involve it in the power struggles of the realm.  Well it should but not around here......

Signed. 

How and why is it OK for some people that Marsh, Slynt, Thorne, etc. were in cahoots with the IT (read:Tywin), and not OK the fact that Jon wants to save his sister from the biggest psychopaths in Westeros is beyond me. And probably Marsh killed Jon to suck up to Ramsay anyways. He is from the sort of people who want to side with the winner no matter what and no matter the cost. 

 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

1 hour ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Signed. 

How and why is it OK for some people that Marsh, Slynt, Thorne, etc. were in cahoots with the IT (read:Tywin), and not OK the fact that Jon wants to save his sister from the biggest psychopaths in Westeros is beyond me. And probably Marsh killed Jon to suck up to Ramsay anyways. He is from the sort of people who want to side with the winner no matter what and no matter the cost. 

 

Yes! Or it's ok to assassinate your commanding officer but not ok to execute an insubordinate soldier in league with the IT. It's definitely a double standard to say the least

[The Commentator]

On 12/6/2017 at 10:52 PM, Damsel in Distress said:

Jon was wrong.  The mission to take his sister from Ramsay is treason.  Jon was wrong but he can still be wight.

Bran had a vision of Jon's body growing cold in the ice cells.  It is logical for the NW to hold his body temporarily so they can prove to the warden of the north that they have cleaned their internal troubles and took care of their demented lord commander Jon Snow.  His body is the only proof that the Boltons will believe and the ice cells is as good a place as any to deposit his corpse.  If the WW beat Ramsay to the wall there could be trouble.  The WW are the ones who are the most likely to reanimate Jon's body and make him their wight. 

 

14 hours ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

Well...I'd say it's right to commit this wrong, and it's wrong to be wight. So yes, Jon would be right and wrong, if he were to be wight. 

Jon is wrong and died because of it, but the White Walkers will wight his wrongs when they turn him into an animated popsicle to do their bidding.  Finally, the Night's Queen will find her Mr. Wight in Jon.  She's not had a cold man since the Night's King.  

[The Commentator]

1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Yes! Or it's ok to assassinate your commanding officer but not ok to execute an insubordinate soldier in league with the IT. It's definitely a double standard to say the least

Marsh stopped Jon from escalating his personal conflict with Ramsay into a full-on war that will do more harm than good.   Marsh is in a way a hero.  The only person guilty of double standard is Jon.  He let Mance Rayder walk free, a man who committed the biggest crimes in the north, against the Night's Watch, and against the whole kingdom.  And that after executing a sworn brother for a comparatively trivial offense.  That is double standard.  

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

1 hour ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Marsh stopped Jon from escalating his personal conflict with Ramsay into a full-on war that will do more harm than good.   Marsh is in a way a hero.  The only person guilty of double standard is Jon.  He let Mance Rayder walk free, a man who committed the biggest crimes in the north, against the Night's Watch, and against the whole kingdom.  And that after executing a sworn brother for a comparatively trivial offense.  That is double standard.  

Again you fail to address the fact that Marsh is guilty of plotting & carrying out a mutiny on his LC. It's ok though because Jon let Mance  walk free so Marsh is a hero. You haven't answered the question which basically is: how can you not only overlook, but praise Marsh for the crimes he is guilty of, because you understand his reasoning (no matter that it's still a crime no matter the circumstances) Not bother with the fact that Janos & Marsh were in league with the IT & therefore doing exactly what Jon is being accused of but scream to the high heavens Jon was in the wrong when there are clearly extenuating circumstances. Not to mention quoting someone but then not replying or addressing what was said, only spouting the same "Jon was wrong, hurray Bowen" crap 

[Blackwater Revenant]

1 hour ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Marsh stopped Jon from escalating his personal conflict with Ramsay into a full-on war that will do more harm than good.   Marsh is in a way a hero.  The only person guilty of double standard is Jon.  He let Mance Rayder walk free, a man who committed the biggest crimes in the north, against the Night's Watch, and against the whole kingdom.  And that after executing a sworn brother for a comparatively trivial offense.  That is double standard.  

Yeah, trying to save hundreds of thousands of people from being killed, and turned into a undead army who's intent is to exterminate all of mankind is certainly "committing the biggest crimes in the North." /s 

Puuleeze. Jon knew that Mance was a good man - who had every opportunity and reason to execute Jon, but didn't - who only attacked the Wall out of necessity, in order to save his people from a fate that would surely be detrimental to all of mankind, Southerners included.

None of Mances' "crimes" are even comparable to that of the likes of Slynt, Marsh, Ramsey, etc. etc. The list of deplorable criminals that you are defending, who have committed greater crimes against the Kingdom than Mance goes on and on.

[Wolf's Bane]

On 12/7/2017 at 7:28 AM, Mon ami said:

Jon's oath breaking decision to attack Ramsay and Bowen's reaction to it is one of the most discussed topics in the fandom.  I side with those who say that Jon betrayed that NW and Bowen had no choice but to stop him. 

I don't think the attackers were warged.  What they did makes sense when you consider what Jon said he was going to do.  The men do not need to be warged to take action to stop his foolish plans to attack the Boltons.  Jon's intent was stupid and suicidal as well as oathbreaking. 

The stabbing of Jon Snow made perfect sense.  Bowen Marsh and the men of the NW couldn't let their commander lead a wildling army attack the Warden of the north and his family.  It accomplished a lot.  It stopped a madman from starting a war that the watch could not win against people they should be protecting from the white walkers.

There's nothing to support warging.  Those men were desperate to stop the wildlings from attacking House Bolton.  Jon put those men between a rock and a hard place.  I suppose they could let Jon and his horde leave the wall and then warn the Boltons but the Raven might not make it.  I have to agree that the crows needed to stop Jon's insanity and it is too bad that they will pay for it with their lives.  Jon is guilty of the highest level of treason.  Those brave men who stopped him are guilty of rebellion.   This is medieval times and punishment is harsh to say the least.  Jon's madness led to this mess.  I predict Bowen and company will get slaughtered for killing Snowflake.   

[Wolf's Bane]

On 12/7/2017 at 7:28 AM, Mon ami said:

Jon's oath breaking decision to attack Ramsay and Bowen's reaction to it is one of the most discussed topics in the fandom.  I side with those who say that Jon betrayed that NW and Bowen had no choice but to stop him. 

I don't think the attackers were warged.  What they did makes sense when you consider what Jon said he was going to do.  The men do not need to be warged to take action to stop his foolish plans to attack the Boltons.  Jon's intent was stupid and suicidal as well as oathbreaking. 

The stabbing of Jon Snow made perfect sense.  Bowen Marsh and the men of the NW couldn't let their commander lead a wildling army attack the Warden of the north and his family.  It accomplished a lot.  It stopped a madman from starting a war that the watch could not win against people they should be protecting from the white walkers.

We can hope it stopped the wildlings.  We can hope Jon stays down for good.   They have the weather on their side.  With a little luck the wildlings will die before they make it halfway to Winterfell.  

[Blackwater Revenant]

23 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I know this is a futile and useless exercise.

Truer words couldn't be spoken.

I've the feeling that many on this thread, are the type of people that cheered when Bambi's mother was shot, or believe that William Zabka was the protagonist in The Karate Kid.