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IheartIheartTesla

US politics: Just another Mueller Monday

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2 minutes ago, S John said:

I'd prefer they simply shut up and enjoy a quiet retirement.  There is nothing the Clinton's can do to help the cause at this point, they can only harm it.  Time to set the bruised ego's aside, reflect on their decades of public service, and just go the fuck away already.  Dwelling on 2016 is not a good strategy for Dems winning in 2018 or 2020.  

I'm cool with that too.

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6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

People need to stop getting hung up on the term “rigid.”

I don't think anyone is hung up on 'rigid'. Tumescent perhaps, but not rigid. Also, possibly 'hung'.

6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

No, the outcome was not predetermined in the sense that Clinton was guaranteed a win, but the process was also shady and unfair, and worse, it’s going to undermine the legitimacy of the victorious primary candidate for cycles to come.

Sanders has already poisoned that well for anyone not named Sanders. 

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"Rigged" is a meaningless term in this discussion as there is no agreed upon definition. Further, it started to be used after Trump, falsely, began claiming that the vote might be "rigged' against him. By continuing to use it we not only do ourselves a disservice by using a moronic word brought to popular discourse by a Cheeto Kakistocrat with a "good brain" but also giving credence to the bullshit that he is constantly spewing.

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11 minutes ago, S John said:

I'd prefer they simply shut up and enjoy a quiet retirement.  There is nothing the Clinton's can do to help the cause at this point, they can only harm it.  Time to set the bruised ego's aside, reflect on their decades of public service, and just go the fuck away already.  Dwelling on 2016 is not a good strategy for Dems winning in 2018 or 2020.  

Yeah, this is more less where I’m at too. They should still make appearances at major party events and do some quiet fundraising, but I don’t see what value they add beyond that going forward.

Also, Bill’s presence could be rather problematic going forward considering the fallout of the Weinstein scandal.

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8 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I don't think anyone is hung up on 'rigid'. Tumescent perhaps, but not rigid. Also, possibly 'hung'.

Sanders has already poisoned that well for anyone not named Sanders. 

Ha, that's a pretty funny typo.And I don’t see any value in isolating Sanders. It seems like just about everyone involved owns some share of the blame.

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21 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Some of the stuff being breathlessly reported isn't exactly that shocking.  (Yeah, people invest through Cayman and Bermuda vehicles.  It's often for tax reasons. Color me surprised).  The scope of the data breach here is really scary though.  Appleby is a real law firm - pretty reputable.  This would be on par with Cravath or S&C (or *gulp* my firm) getting hacked.  I mean, there is a whole bunch of privileged information that is now available for everyone.  Data privacy is a huge concern for law firms and this is exactly why.  And frankly, to the extent that any of this has to do with any privileged advice given in context of a white collar defense/investigation, it should be disturbing to everyone.   

Maybe, maybe not. One of the Trump's cabinet's members business ties to Russia however has a politicial dimension. As he should divested from those businesses.

From a European perspective, there is also quite a bit in it. That the Isle of Man is a new tax haven just outside mainland Europe, is not a scandal itself. However, some of the stuff going on there is outrageous. E.g. the big producer for slot machines in Germany, who is also actively advertising with responsible gambling (and not exploiting compulsive gamblers). He is violating German gambling laws. In Germany running those virtual slot machines on the internet is forbidden (under German law). Yet, through some legal constructs, he is circumventing those. The bit with the responsible gambling. If you sit in front of those things in the real world they shut down after an hour, as some sort of protection for the players (German law and stuff). Their virtual counterpart do not do that.

The German tax authorities would probably also like to have another talk to the Engelhorn family and collect roughly 300mil in taxes.

So there's quite a bit in it, apart from Lewis Hamilton not paying taxes for his jet.

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38 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Ha, that's a pretty funny typo.And I don’t see any value in isolating Sanders. It seems like just about everyone involved owns some share of the blame.

 Sanders is unique in that many of his supporters will always believe he was cheated out of the presidency, and if he runs again will believe only that he loses because he was cheated again. If he loses in the primary? Cheated. General? Cheated. That's what they'll spin, and that's entirely on him and his statements and his followers.

I don't see that being the case necessarily with other candidates, mostly because they haven't openly stated the whole system is rigged.

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I never heard Sanders say the primary was rigged, he said the DNC was unfair towards him. Not the same thing at all.

He has said the system was rigged, but that was referring more to the current form of American capitalism rather than the more narrow Democratic National Congress primary.

Many of his supporters believe nothing of the sort mentioned above, so I suggest its a small fraction of his supporters.

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I hope Bernie doesn't run again either.  He will be 79 years old in 2020 and its hard to see someone that old being able to complete 2 terms.  He'd be near 90 towards the end of a hypothetical second term and that is too god damn old to be the president.  Needless to say, the Dems need some fresh meat.  If nothing else Trump proves political experience doesn't mean shit anymore so I think the Dem's should seriously consider fielding a young group of candidates to face the old orange man.  I think that would generate significantly more excitement than carting out a bunch of geriatrics again.  Any elected political experience at all will be more than Trump had and as we saw in the case of Clinton, her political experience was used as a club to beat her with.  A fresher face comes with less pre-packaged attack lines and I think erring on the side of a younger candidate is the best plan for victory against Trump.  

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Neither of the parties do a very good job of grooming the next batch of leaders. Or maybe they do, but its pretty much inside baseball and we dont see these people showcased except at the Conventions. At least for people who dont pay that close attention to politics.

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38 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

I never heard Sanders say the primary was rigged, he said the DNC was unfair towards him. Not the same thing at all.

Okay, but he said it.

38 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

He has said the system was rigged, but that was referring more to the current form of American capitalism rather than the more narrow Democratic National Congress primary.

No, he said that the system of the DNC primary - particularly the superdelegates - is rigged.

38 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Many of his supporters believe nothing of the sort mentioned above, so I suggest its a small fraction of his supporters.

That's certainly true, but enough do that anything short of his winning will mean thinking things are broken in some way, and will have zero reflection about why Sanders actually lost. 

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I see, so he said something more boilerplate about how the system of superdelegates is more biased towards establishment candidates than outsiders including him (something that is SOP for a few cycles now with the DNC) rather than something specific about this particular primary with the Hillary Victory Fund or what have you.

Well, I'm sure it'll take a while for all of us to recover from this blistering criticism, but 2020 is a long ways away.

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Just now, IheartIheartTesla said:

I see, so he said something more boilerplate about how the system of superdelegates is more biased towards establishment candidates than outsiders including him (something that is SOP for a few cycles now with the DNC) rather than something specific about this particular primary with the Hillary Victory Fund or what have you.

Well, I'm sure it'll take a while for all of us to recover from this blistering criticism, but 2020 is a long ways away.

Given that the notion that Brazile thought - and then didn't think - that the system was rigged (and now Warren says it is) was dominating news cycles in 2017, a year and a half after Sanders lost the primary, I think the notion that it isn't a big issue is obviously flawed. Don't underestimate liberals feelings about fairness.

I've toyed with the idea of proposing that the Democrats run everything on open slack servers and have every single bit of communication open to the public, but I suspect it would do more harm than good. 

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They're inserting a rapid rise in taxes on middle income families to offset the untenable deficit they created with their tax cuts for pass through companies and the wealthiest individuals among us. They're also cutting Medicare, despite promising not to.

Here is the bait and switch: their first announcement, which gets all of the loudest media coverage, seems something less than disastrous for middle and low income Americans. Then, like the devious fucks they are, they revise it to raise our taxes.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-gop-quietly-changes-tax-bill-to-tax-income-at-higher-rates-over-time/

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12 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

I see, so he said something more boilerplate about how the system of superdelegates is more biased towards establishment candidates than outsiders including him (something that is SOP for a few cycles now with the DNC) rather than something specific about this particular primary with the Hillary Victory Fund or what have you.

Well, I'm sure it'll take a while for all of us to recover from this blistering criticism, but 2020 is a long ways away.

What's annoying about it is he still would have lost. And it's that kind of rhetoric that fucks with the confidence of people in the system. The big issue with Sanders to me is he's a far left populist without any real ideas on how he'd actually get anything he says passed. He's not realistic and as we're seeing, more and more primaries are going to the polls and he helps that along. I really hope he doesn't run in 2020, hate that he's positioning himself to run and firmly believe his rhetoric will damage the democratic party in the current hyper partisan world.

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I don't think he'll run in 2020, but be a more Ted Kennedy like figure endorsing progressive politicians including the presidential candidates.

If some centrists want to contest that, they'll have to start getting their candidates of choice ready for prime time pretty soon.

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2 hours ago, Kalbear said:

 Sanders is unique in that many of his supporters will always believe he was cheated out of the presidency, and if he runs again will believe only that he loses because he was cheated again. If he loses in the primary? Cheated. General? Cheated. That's what they'll spin, and that's entirely on him and his statements and his followers.

I don't see that being the case necessarily with other candidates, mostly because they haven't openly stated the whole system is rigged.

I don’t think you’re being fair to Sanders supporters. Sure, there are some who will always claim the system is rigged against them no matter what, but I think they’re a relatively small minority of his total base. I don’t see it as being all that different from a subsection of Clinton supporters who are looking for any excuse to explain away her loss rather than just accepting that it was by and large because she ran a bad campaign down the stretch. But neither matters anymore. What does is finding a new sense of unity in the Democratic party, and that can’t happen if both camps keep sniping at each other. Sanders supporters need to get it through their head that he lost, whether or not it was a completely fair campaign (and that he would have lost regardless) and Clinton supporters need to quit being so dismissive of Sanders supporters concerns about the process.

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42 minutes ago, Sword of Doom said:

They're inserting a rapid rise in taxes on middle income families to offset the untenable deficit they created with their tax cuts for pass through companies and the wealthiest individuals among us. They're also cutting Medicare, despite promising not to.

Here is the bait and switch: their first announcement, which gets all of the loudest media coverage, seems something less than disastrous for middle and low income Americans. Then, like the devious fucks they are, they revise it to raise our taxes.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-gop-quietly-changes-tax-bill-to-tax-income-at-higher-rates-over-time/

And worse than this, wait until we get a few years down the road when this cut will really start to hamper the budget. Then they'll come out at say there's no money, we're going to have to start making cuts to programs that the poor rely on heavily. All of this is going to fall on the Middle and Lower class. And for what? So the fat cats can squirrel more money away in offshore accounts? Leave an extra 5-10 million to their children? 

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4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I don’t think you’re being fair to Sanders supporters. Sure, there are some who will always claim the system is rigged against them no matter what, but I think they’re a relatively small minority of his total base. I don’t see it as being all that different from a subsection of Clinton supporters who are looking for any excuse to explain away her loss rather than just accepting that it was by and large because she ran a bad campaign down the stretch.

I might agree with that if not for this Donna Brazile news cycle, which dominated my feed for the last 4 days over things like Trump actively wishing he could use the FBI to prosecute his enemies and demanding the death penalty for someone who hasn't been found guilty yet. 

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

But neither matters anymore. What does is finding a new sense of unity in the Democratic party, and that can’t happen if both camps keep sniping at each other. Sanders supporters need to get it through their head that he lost, whether or not it was a completely fair campaign (and that he would have lost regardless) and Clinton supporters need to quit being so dismissive of Sanders supporters concerns about the process.

Good luck with that.

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18 minutes ago, Sword of Doom said:

They're inserting a rapid rise in taxes on middle income families to offset the untenable deficit they created with their tax cuts for pass through companies and the wealthiest individuals among us. They're also cutting Medicare, despite promising not to.

Here is the bait and switch: their first announcement, which gets all of the loudest media coverage, seems something less than disastrous for middle and low income Americans. Then, like the devious fucks they are, they revise it to raise our taxes.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-gop-quietly-changes-tax-bill-to-tax-income-at-higher-rates-over-time/

Oh there is so much more going on.  Wait until the next markup.  It will be awesome.  and the more we dig into this the more stuff we see.  It's a planning bonanza, but not for the little guy.

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