Sansa's Historical Counterpart

[Angel Eyes]

So who is Sansa's historical counterpart supposed to be? I've heard a couple, such as Queen Elizabeth I  and Elizabeth of York. There's also this article and this.

[Faera]

Odds are on she is inspired by both in one way or another. I have always thought Elizabeth of York was a better fit than Elizabeth I but that's probably because Sansa is still quite young and much of what Elizabeth I is best remembered for happened after she became queen at twenty-five. What we know about Elizabeth I's childhood is very different what Sansa has been through, thankfully. Eddard's execution could perhaps be paralleled to Anne Boleyn's in that both were killed unjustly but aside from that her story parallels Elizabeth of York a bit better. It isn't exactly the same but nothing ever is.

[Angel Eyes]

So if we go one way and it's Elizabeth of York, who is her Henry Tudor?

[Faera]

7 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

So if we go one way and it's Elizabeth of York, who is her Henry Tudor?

One could argue that her marriage with Tyrion Lannister was an attempt to "unite" the houses of York Stark and Lancaster Lannister much as Henry Tudor's marriage to Elizabeth of York was; his personal claim, while tenuously weak, was a Lancaster one through his mother. Otherwise, one of the distant Lannister cousins might be a better bet. it might be a marriage partner who has not yet presented himself or will be a Lannister bannerman or affiliate rather than someone with the blood.

Even if we take the York and Lancaster angle out, the idea of Sansa marrying someone to secure their claim to what is by rights hers - in this case Winterfell - might imply her "Henry Tudor" will be someone else who wants Winterfell but needs her to get it. Like a man from the line Jocelyn Stark or something obscure like that!

[Angel Eyes]

35 minutes ago, Faera said:

One could argue that her marriage with Tyrion Lannister was an attempt to "unite" the houses of York Stark and Lancaster Lannister much as Henry Tudor's marriage to Elizabeth of York was; his personal claim, while tenuously weak, was a Lancaster one through his mother.

Maybe Tywin read the history books?

[AEJON TARGARYEN]

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So if we go one way and it's Elizabeth of York, who is her Henry Tudor?

Dany.

1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

Maybe Tywin read the history books?

Probably. 

Personally, I don't see Sansa as an Elizabeth I figure or regent queen but here's a video about it:

 

[HoodedCrow]

I hate Donald trump’s lies and blaming

 

[Angel Eyes]

7 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

I hate Donald trump’s lies and blaming

 

?

[A Ghost of Someone]

6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So if we go one way and it's Elizabeth of York, who is her Henry Tudor?

Aegon VI, Faegon.

[Lollygag]

I'm all for looking for historical inspirations for the book characters, but there's no "ripping off" of a single historical figure and plastering that straight onto any given book character. I wouldn't respect any writer who did that and I don't think GRRM is doing that.

It won't get anyone anywhere by picking a single historical figure and then extrapolating an entire character arc from that single figure.

[HoodedCrow]

Sorry wrong thread.

Elizabeth Tudor had a difficult childhood after three, when her mother was killed by her father, and was also slimed on by a guardian and had to pretend a lot to change her beliefs in order not to be killed for religious reasons. She also had to pretend to wish to marry to keep her Throne.

[Corvo the Crow]

10 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So if we go one way and it's Elizabeth of York, who is her Henry Tudor?

Yeah I wonder who is the Henry Tudor of this story too

Besides the joke, Elizabeth I is a better fitting simply because of the portrait and her (step)mother Catherine if not for anything else.

[chrisdaw]

She is Anne Neville. People make whole fancy arsed websites without the first fucking clue.

6 hours ago, Lollygag said:

It won't get anyone anywhere by picking a single historical figure and then extrapolating an entire character arc from that single figure.

It will get you pretty far actually. Will become queen when her husband's nephews are declared illegitimate.

[Lollygag]

7 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

She is Anne Neville. People make whole fancy arsed websites without the first fucking clue.

It will get you pretty far actually. Will become queen when her husband's nephews are declared illegitimate.

I think there are themes, messages and things being said about the human experience and that these are dictating the course of the novels. If it’s all just a mash-up of dead Royals, I’m in the wrong place.

If you're right, I'm going to have to upgrade my coffeemaker to get through the last two books. I'm expecting something more imaginative.

 

[chrisdaw]

1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

I think there are themes, messages and things being said about the human experience and that these are dictating the course of the novels. If it’s all just a mash-up of dead Royals, I’m in the wrong place.

That they're mutually exclusive is a mash up in your mind. Does Tyrion's public persecution lose impact for having been openly modelled on Richard III? 

[LaurieMarlow]

I love the idea of Sansa as the Virgin Queen on the throne at the end a la Elizabeth I.  I can see Jon (rightful heir and Azor Ahai, once again dedicating himself to the nights watch after the death of his Nissa Nissa, Dany) appointing her as his heir. 

And her blossoming into the kind of just, but shrewd player of the game of thrones that her father singularly failed to be.

[Lollygag]

16 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

That they're mutually exclusive is a mash up in your mind. Does Tyrion's public persecution lose impact for having been openly modelled on Richard III? 

Just clarifying what I said. Don't know where you got that I said they're mutually exclusive.

2 hours ago, Lollygag said:

If it’s all just a mash-up of dead Royals, I’m in the wrong place.

 

15 hours ago, Lollygag said:

I'm all for looking for historical inspirations for the book characters, but there's no "ripping off" of a single historical figure and plastering that straight onto any given book character. I wouldn't respect any writer who did that and I don't think GRRM is doing that.

It won't get anyone anywhere by picking a single historical figure and then extrapolating an entire character arc from that single figure.

My problem isn't in finding sources of inspiration as I said before. It's in the idea that the book characters are just rip offs of a single historical figure and their end-game, the whole point of the character, will likewise be a continuation of a rip off of the respective single historical figure.

It doesn't follow that character X is like historical figure Y in some way, so X will have the same ending as Y.

[ravenous reader]

15 minutes ago, LaurieMarlow said:

Sansa as the Virgin Queen on the throne at the end a la Elizabeth I.

Check out this interesting article, tantalizingly entitled 'The Virgin Queen and her Sweet Robin'...!

I think GRRM is conflating 'Sweet Robin' and 'Sweet Petyr'.  The suspicious death of the wife and the rumours of an illicit erotic dalliance also recall Lysa's fall and Sansa's strange daughter-wife relationship with Littlefinger, respectively.

2 hours ago, Lollygag said:

If you're right, I'm going to have to upgrade my coffeemaker to get through the last two books

Maybe you should upgrade your coffeemaker...@chrisdaw has already accurately predicted the outcome of everything in the books...in fact, one of his last topics was entitled 'An Explanation for dragon riding, the meaning of Azor Ahai, Lightbringer and Everything Else' 

[Lollygag]

27 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Maybe you should upgrade your coffeemaker...@chrisdaw has already accurately predicted the outcome of everything in the books...in fact, one of his last topics was entitled 'An Explanation for dragon riding, the meaning of Azor Ahai, Lightbringer and Everything Else' 

It was nice to notify me of the unimaginative ending of Sansa's arc (and everything else?) in time for the Black Friday sales on coffeemakers.

[SecretWeapon]

As much as i'd be interested in a trade agreement with Westeros, i doubt Sansa will end up as Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. She might however, end up Warden of The North/Queen in the North/Representative of the North, depending of how does Westeros government end up in the finale.