If Oswell, Gerold & Arthur joined Rhaegar at the Battle of the Trident = different outcome?

[Frey Kings]

Even the best fighter in the world Selmy suffered critical wounds. I wouldnt think it would made a difference with Dayne in the picture. A difference would've been the Reach's army. 

[Lion of the West]

I think the main important difference would have been that if Gerold Hightower was around he could have provided some better judgement in leadership to Rhaegar. Remember that Gerold Hightower lead the Westerosi to victory in the Stepstones and so would have had some military experience to pass on to the pretty green Rhaegar.

Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent would probably be less important save that its possible that Rhaegar could be followed into battle by one or two Kingsguard and be aided against Robert, and we should probably slate a dozen or two more dead rebels to casulties of war.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

21 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

Remember that Gerold Hightower lead the Westerosi to victory in the Stepstones

Good point. Keeping one of the best and most accomplished military commanders in Westeros on the sidelines was foolish. Both Jon Con and Rhaegar were green and had little experience compared to Ser. Gerold. 

1 hour ago, Freys Injustice said:

A difference would've been the Reach's army.

While part of the loyalist army at the Trident did have soldiers from the Reach in their ranks it obviously wasn't enough. I'm not sure if it's been 100% confirmed but from what I can gather Randyll Tarly was at the siege of Storms End. That seems like a bad decision as well considered Mace Tyrell, Mathis Rowan, and Paxter Redwyne were all there to command the siege. Randyll Tarly would have been better utilized serving as one of the commanders at the Trident. He already proved his worth at the Battle of Ashford. Why not have a man who was victories against Robert at the decisive battle?

Ultimately I believe the loyalists lost the war because the Crown chose inexperienced commanders instead of the seasoned ones it had at it's disposal.

[Reekazoid]

Ned seems to think that Gerold seems to think so.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Robert would have still killed Rhaegar . Three men doesn't an army make , there would have been many more killed , but the end would be the same .

[elder brother jonothor dar]

It could have been the difference, their skill at arms would have killed a few more soldiers their command could have changed the tactics, but the biggest difference would have been in morale 3 extra heroes shining in white could turn the battle

[Stormking902]

The only way things turn out different is if Ser Arthur challenges Robert himself to a duel and Robert accepts and Ser Arthur cuts him down then I believe the Loyalists win but other then that the time line stays the same maybe one of the 3 KG survive like Selmy???. 

[Adam Yozza]

If they get separated from Rhaegar then no nothing changes, except a dozen or two more casualties for the rebels.

If one of them was still with Rhaegar when Robert got to him though....Well Robert won against Rhaegar but took injuries to do so. I can't see him winning against Rhaegar plus one of the kingsguard at the same time. If Robert had come across Arthur Dayne on the battlefield I think it's safe to say that Robert would die and the rebel army would most likely collapse in on itself with its figurehead dead.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

We sort of have to take it for what it's worth considering the source, but Edmure Tully seems to think that Rhaegar's mistake was in trying to cross the Trident. If that's the case, then I'd say there was impatience there in wanting to finish the war ASAP. If we go by that alone, then it sounds like Rhaegar and those who advised him blundered. I don't know how much of a difference having 3 more Kingsguard have been, but Oswell Whent's voice may have carried more weight since he was born in the riverlands and may have known that crossing the Trident was not a great idea. 

The fight between Robert and Rhaegar could still have gone either way if they had met on the field. They seem to be very evenly matched in their "prowess" (for lack of better word), if Rhaegar had found an opening, he would have taken it the same way Robert did. We know Robert was very badly wounded, so it wasn't a fight for the feint of heart in any case.

It's too bad we don't know more about the Redgrass Field and its exact location. Although we really don't know all that much about the Trident either.

[Jon Fossoway]

"The royalists were more numerous, but the rebels were more battle hardened."

I think that's the clue right there. Rebels had overall better and proven commanders as well. 

[theMADdestScientist_]

11 hours ago, LionoftheWest said:

Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent would probably be less important

Yeah? if Arthur Dayne wasn't that important, then George didn't need to include this in ADWD: "They found the Golden Company beside the river as the sun was lowering in the west. It was a camp that even Arthur Dayne might have approved of—compact, orderly, defensible. A deep ditch had been dug around it, with sharpened stakes inside. The tents stood in rows, with broad avenues between them. The latrines had been placed beside the river, so the current would wash away the wastes. The horse lines were to the north, and beyond them, two dozen elephants grazed beside the water, pulling up reeds with their trunks."

 

For the record, I'm not saying that Arthur would turn the tides and win the war for loyalists, i'm just saying that Arthur Dayne was a highly respected swordsman, commander and knight, and the rebels weren't invincible.

[A Ghost of Someone]

No, unless they jumped Robert while he was fighting Rhaegar one on one but then again, The Rebels would have fought on anyway if Robert died. Too much had been done and too much was at stake to just give up if Robert had died at the Trident. It was a Just and honorable rebellion. The Targs, Aerys II and Rhaegar earned their deaths and removal for their family. The murders of Rheanya and baby Aegon(?) were awful and unnecessary but that is on Tywin. Mayhaps everything would have been better had Robert died so long as Rhaegar did too.

[Lion of the West]

1 hour ago, theMADdestScientist_ said:

Yeah? if Arthur Dayne wasn't that important, then George didn't need to include this in ADWD: "They found the Golden Company beside the river as the sun was lowering in the west. It was a camp that even Arthur Dayne might have approved of—compact, orderly, defensible. A deep ditch had been dug around it, with sharpened stakes inside. The tents stood in rows, with broad avenues between them. The latrines had been placed beside the river, so the current would wash away the wastes. The horse lines were to the north, and beyond them, two dozen elephants grazed beside the water, pulling up reeds with their trunks."

 

For the record, I'm not saying that Arthur would turn the tides and win the war for loyalists, i'm just saying that Arthur Dayne was a highly respected swordsman, commander and knight, and the rebels weren't invincible.

Well, maybe I was to harsh on the Sword of the Morning. But my point is that as far as I know Arthur Dayne's greatest strengths were his chivalric character and his swordsmanship. The only command we hear he held was to my knowledge to root out a band of bandits while the White Bull commanded armies against hardened mercenary foes. Thus it seems to me that Hightower would hold both seniority of rank as well as having more experience for the sort of war that was offered. Thus Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent would be important, but I think they would be less important than Gerold Hightower to the loyalist war effort given that The White Bull could provide what was otherwise lacking among the loyalists; experience.

[Dood]

If they act as Rhaegar's bodyguards, Robert has 0 chances to kill him, and the loyalist army does not get routed.

We are probably still looking at a defeat, as the loyalist tactically failed to cross the trident, but I guess the officers/cavalry would get out alive.

Robert may or may not live though, as he was badly wounded in the original battle : the outcome might change if the opposing force are not routed.

[Corvo the Crow]

Robert would die but Robert isn't the rebellion. If everything else is the same then rebels may still have won or if enough people witness Robert going down and start fleeing instead of fighting (they can't tell if he is dead or not with battle around) then Rebels may lose that battle but rebellion will carry on. Jon Arryn is the rebel leader, if anyone is.

[Dorian Martell's son]

20 hours ago, Freys Injustice said:

Even the best fighter in the world Selmy suffered critical wounds. I wouldnt think it would made a difference with Dayne in the picture. A difference would've been the Reach's army. 

for the story to work they would have to flee to the TOJ after the battle 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Robert would die but Robert isn't the rebellion. If everything else is the same then rebels may still have won or if enough people witness Robert going down and start fleeing instead of fighting (they can't tell if he is dead or not with battle around) then Rebels may lose that battle but rebellion will carry on. Jon Arryn is the rebel leader, if anyone is.

No, he's not, but they named the rebellion after him and it was decided that he would sit the throne once the Targaryens had been removed from power. Would Jon Arryn go down the Baratheon line of succession and asked the rebels to put Stannis on the throne instead? As for Jon Arryn, I side eye him a lot. I wouldn't be in the least surprised if we found out the Robert/Lyanna marriage was his notion.

[Wm Portnoy]

21 hours ago, Freys Injustice said:

Even the best fighter in the world Selmy suffered critical wounds. I wouldnt think it would made a difference with Dayne in the picture. A difference would've been the Reach's army. 

Three men would not make a difference because that dummy, Rhaegar, fought Robert in single combat.  That was gallant, but an absolutely stupid thing to do.  The only way a difference can happen - bring an army large enough for them to quickly defeat the rebels before R&R had a chance to meet in single combat.  A general does not engage in single combat no matter the provocation.

[Livesundersink]

6 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

No, he's not, but they named the rebellion after him and it was decided that he would sit the throne once the Targaryens had been removed from power. Would Jon Arryn go down the Baratheon line of succession and asked the rebels to put Stannis on the throne instead? As for Jon Arryn, I side eye him a lot. I wouldn't be in the least surprised if we found out the Robert/Lyanna marriage was his notion.

Wouldn't be surprised considering that Robert only married Cersei after Jon mentioned that the realm needed an heir and we all know how that turned out.

[Kenton Stark]

On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 5:16 AM, Stormking902 said:

The only way things turn out different is if Ser Arthur challenges Robert himself to a duel and Robert accepts and Ser Arthur cuts him down then I believe the Loyalists win but other then that the time line stays the same maybe one of the 3 KG survive like Selmy???. 

I was thinking the same thing