U.S. Politics 2017: Yes Virginia, There Is a Santa Claus

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 hours ago, Durckad said:

WRT to drones, we already pretty much do that already. Our "drone the terrists to death" policy has always blatantly ignored national boundaries and been very blase about collateral damage in the guise of "making the world safer."

It's unfortunate to see supposed liberals arguing for such a thing (even if facetiously), but not entirely unexpected given the current climate. Not sure which parts of those statements are more sad to me.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of violating a sovereign nations airspace and killing innocent bystanders in the process. 

[Sivin]

18 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of violating a sovereign nations airspace and killing innocent bystanders in the process. 

The sovereignty of any airspace on this earth is only recognizable by entities appropriately consisted of free and governing citizens. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 minutes ago, WinterFox said:

The sovereignty of any airspace on this earth is only recognizable by entities appropriately consisted of free and governing citizens. 

What in the Wide, Wide World of Sports are you even talking about?

 

 

[Sivin]

2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

What in the Wide, Wide World of Sports are you even talking about?

 

 

I'm glad you asked, Mr. Hole.

The 'airspace' of a governing body cannot be 'violated' unless the action is condemned by an appropriately free and democratic entity. 

And since the only free and democratic entity on earth capable of committing such actions is being called upon, any action undertaken by its representative leaders is condoned by popular majority. 

 

[Hereward]

Congratulations, that is one of the stupidest comments I've ever seen on this site. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, Hereward said:

Congratulations, that is one of the stupidest comments I've ever seen on this site. 

I think he's trying to be something.

https://postimg.org/image/4uchqjtbd/

[Sivin]

C'mon, guys! I was working on you all night.  

I hate droning in general. Valid military targets is one thing, indiscriminate murder is not acceptable. Not even to kill Nazis. 

[Guest]

On 11/10/2017 at 8:33 AM, denstorebog said:

Apparently JMC is coming out with a poll on Sunday that was taken before the scandal. They've made the teasing statement that "the Democratic wave last Tuesday was not a fluke". Again, before the scandal. Depending on exactly how tight the race is getting, that could be the end of Moore (or at least of Moore as the only Republican in the race). Plenty of people will accept a child molesting candidate. A child molesting candidate who is dipping in the polls? Not so much.

So that JMA Analytics poll came out. I'll let everyone read the results for themselves.

Quote

Louisiana-based JMC Analytics conducted the poll after allegations of sexual misconduct by Moore were reported by The Washington Post.

The poll had Jones received 46 percent support in the poll to Moore's 42 percent. With a margin of error of 4 percent, however, the race is essentially a statistical tie.

The poll also had 9 percent of participants declaring themselves undecided.

[Guest]

Here are some more points from that article.

His support has dropped 16 percent with men and 6 percent with women.

Moore's support across the board has dropped, including evangelicals, while non-evangelicals have given more support to Jones as well as undecided voters have leaned toward Jones.

The political climate for Republicans in Alabama has become less favorable.

Meanwhile, three other polls conducted after The Post allegations had Moore with slight leads but all acknowledged that his chance of winning was dwindling.

Moore maintained a lead in a poll conducted by Change Research after The Post allegations were published Thursday. Moore had a 4-point lead (44-40) but the Change poll also found that Moore's support was waning and that his lead was largely a testament to the dominance of the GOP in Alabama.

The Change poll of 1,855 registered voters also said that 42.4 percent of participants did not believe the allegations against Moore while 31.2 percent said they did believe them and 26.4 percent said they were unsure.

Still another poll, conducted by CB Polling, gave Moore a 3-point lead (51.5-48.5). With a margin of error of 4.2 percent, CB headlined its poll findings by declaring the Senate race "a toss-up" at this point. That poll sampled 534 likely voters.

And still another poll, sampling 478 likely voters and conducted by Florida-based Gravis Marketing, had Moore with a 2-point lead (48-46). Gravis managing partner Doug Kaplan said that The Post allegations "have been a heavy blow to Moore." In tweeting the poll results Sunday, Gravis said it "would not be surprised if (Moore) lost."

[A Horse Named Stranger]

22 hours ago, Altherion said:

 I am genuinely curious about what Merkel et al were thinking was going to happen when they tried to foist Muslims on Eastern Europe -- they can't possibly have been ignorant of the history there.

Ah, the good old, there would be no racists, if it weren't for the damn refugees. I am surprised noone bothered to challenge that argument.

Afterall, what was Kennedy thinking,what would happen,  when he sent the civil guard to protect those damn negros attending a white school. If it wasn't for them there would be no KKK, or white supremacy.

But I suppose there were some good people, with violence on both sides etc. Bottom line to this, not every stupid old argument has the potential to turn into a golden oldie. Sometimes a shitty argument, is just that.

[Martell Spy]

Democratic Candidate Takes Lead After Accusations Against Roy Moore

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/11/12/democratic_candidate_takes_lead_after_harassment_accusations_against_roy.html

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Democratic Candidate Takes Lead After Accusations Against Roy Moore

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/11/12/democratic_candidate_takes_lead_after_harassment_accusations_against_roy.html

RCP has Moore's average lead down to +1.7.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2017/senate/al/alabama_senate_special_election_moore_vs_jones-6271.html

[Martell Spy]

A 12-Year-Old Girl With Epilepsy Is Suing Jeff Sessions Over Medical Marijuana

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/11/12/a_12_year_old_girl_with_epilepsy_is_suing_jeff_sessions_over_medical_marijuana.html

[Mlle. Zabzie]

On 11/11/2017 at 10:24 AM, Ormond said:

I am encouraged by the fact that the day before the Virginia election you were sure that Gillespie would win.

Lord - hope so, but I think the hope of his defeat rests a lot on people who would otherwise be R voters staying home.

23 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

Why evangelicals might keep supporting Roy Moore after his sex abuse scandal
How the culture wars might help Moore survive.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/11/10/16633478/roy-moore-sex-abuse-scandal-evangelical-support-culture-wars

How Congress made tax reform impossible
The tax code became a shadow budget for lawmakers to hide spending — and now dozens of programs need to be slashed.

https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/11/10/gop-tax-plan-programs-face-the-ax-000581?lo=ap_c1

Yes - a windmill I tilt against in the tax policy realm is the "tax incentive"/"tax expenditure" nonsense.  The IRS is a revenue collection agency, and yet it has been turned into the agent of so much social policy. Really hate it.

[Altherion]

41 minutes ago, Notone said:

Ah, the good old, there would be no racists, if it weren't for the damn refugees. I am surprised noone bothered to challenge that argument.

Afterall, what was Kennedy thinking,what would happen,  when he sent the civil guard to protect those damn negros attending a white school. If it wasn't for them there would be no KKK, or white supremacy.

But I suppose there were some good people, with violence on both sides etc. Bottom line to this, not every stupid old argument has the potential to turn into a golden oldie. Sometimes a shitty argument, is just that.

There would still be some racists, but they would not be nearly as motivated nor have as many supporters.

I have no idea what Kennedy was thinking, but if he was a competent leader (and I think he was), he surely must have estimated the power of the various sides and correctly concluded that he has the sufficient support to impose his ideology by force on those who disagree, handle the backlash and keep doing it until the altered society became the status quo and force was no longer necessary. My point was not that it is always wrong to impose change this way, but that one has to be confident in one's power and in the case of the refugee crisis, the people who invited them bit off significantly more than they can chew.

[denstorebog]

Well, now Emerson has Moore up +10. Their last poll was +22, though.

So now we have two wildly varying polls with insane swings over the last two weeks. Must be Tuesday.

[Altherion]

The polls themselves are obviously part of the propaganda at this point. For example, here's a Breitbart article which discusses two polls concluding negligible changes since the allegations. Of course, there must be some polls which are honest or at least correct despite being biased -- but good luck figuring out which are which.

[Rippounet]

4 minutes ago, Altherion said:

There would still be some racists, but they would not be nearly as motivated nor have as many supporters.

Paradoxically, one could use history to argue that forcing peoples to live together decreases racism in the long run. Racism tends to flare as a short-term reaction to phenomena like immigration (there are really many other possible factors, and economics is very important as well). After enough time it tends to subside. In fact, in spite of everything that's been happening in the past decades it's still possible to say that the long-term trend goes against nazis. Which, ironically enough, is something they recognize and why they are so active today.
Nazism is a periodical occurrence. It tends to appear when the pace of change is too great for the most bigoted portions of a population. The change itself however is rather relentless. Very few civilizations successfully isolate themselves and/or remain "pure" and those that do generally have geographical factors to explain it (like Japan). Most societies have to learn to live with their neighbors, and that includes population movements.
I'm always reminded of that one time I asked my grandma whether she was racist. She told me she was... She hated Germans.
For people of my generation, such an idea was laughable. And yet, the concept of separate European races was here not that long ago. My uncle was suspicious of Portuguese or Italians. And a few centuries before people from Britanny were still seen as "less French."
Today we fear Muslims from MENA countries. The world has become smaller. Even if you reject neo-liberalism as an global economic order, technological progress alone has made the world a much smaller place. That's just the way it is.

4 minutes ago, Altherion said:

I have no idea what Kennedy was thinking, but if he was a competent leader (and I think he was), he surely must have estimated the power of the various sides and correctly concluded that he has the sufficient support to impose his ideology by force on those who disagree, handle the backlash and keep doing it until the altered society became the status quo and force was no longer necessary. My point was not that it is always wrong to impose change this way, but that one has to be confident in one's power and in the case of the refugee crisis, the people who invited them bit off significantly more than they can chew.

I believe that JFK, just like Eisenhower before him, was not that much of a civil rights enthusiast (that would have been his brother Robert).

Anyway, I don't know whether Merkel & co bit off more than they can chew. Maybe. Or maybe they did it because they knew they weren't really taking that big a risk. Also, there was a humanitarian crisis to be dealth with. Perhaps angering a few bigots is well worth the price of acting decently.
 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Altherion said:

The polls themselves are obviously part of the propaganda at this point. For example, here's a Breitbart article which discusses two polls concluding negligible changes since the allegations. Of course, there must be some polls which are honest or at least correct despite being biased -- but good luck figuring out which are which.

Propaganda or not, all recently released polls have shown the numbers trending in Jones' favor. That's the real story. 

And given the movement in numbers of all the other polls, it seems rather hard to believe that the other polls are propaganda while Breitbart's is the real deal, and even the Breitbart-commissioned poll shows movement in Jones' favor.

[Martell Spy]

Thanks, Obama.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/11/obamacare-is-off-life-support-for-now.html

Obamacare Is Off Life Support — for Now

Brady: House will not accept repeal of state, local tax deduction

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/12/brady-state-local-tax-deduction-244812