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[S7] What would you have done differently?


Beardy the Wildling

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On 24/11/2017 at 7:58 PM, Angel Eyes said:

I remember I posted something in this about landing at Oldtown and picking up Jorah there after Sam flays the greyscale off him.

Suggestion Revised:

Season 7 Episode 1: Daenerys and company arrive off the coast of Dorne, but decide to go to Oldtown. Since Euron is (presumably) at King's Landing, they won't run into him. 

Season 7 Episode 2: Daenerys and company reach Oldtown, pick up Jorah. Olenna raises her banners. Daenerys crowned in Oldtown (rule of symbolism, Aegon the Conqueror was crowned in Oldtown, was he not?)

Good.

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On 13/11/2017 at 11:26 AM, Orphalesion said:


9.Witnerfell needs to be completely re-written all of it was BS. I have no either what should happen there, but it needs to be something entirely different, also everybody there needs the 90 IQ points back the writers have stolen from them two season ago. And yeah Arya needs to be waaaay less schizophrenic. Sansa is pretty much a lost cause since they have taken her proper storyline away from her, can only do some damage control here by playing up the "Lady of Witnerfell" aspect. Playing the two of them as a close-knit and powerful sister duo from the very start would both make sense and please the viewers. To get rid of Littlefinger (a mercy kill by now) have Sansa get an idea of Arya's capabilities and then ask her sister for help in dealing with their unwanted guest. 

I don't think wh would have made sense eventhough, but it would be less laughable if he tried to convince the New Queen.

WF, completely agree. They could have developed the reunions of the Stark family. Even making it more bittersweet. It's not just about re-telling eachother's stories, but some scenes that really showing the girls trying to understand what has happened to Bran, while watching him, the Stark sisters not competing for the PromQueenGames, telling eachother things -good and bad-that have to be told after all these years.

LF should not be there.

 

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1. Show Cersei struggling to desperately keep the realm under her control, nobody should trust her or cheer for her after what she did. There should be a civil war. A gigantic one with more factions and fronts than the TV show can feasibly depict in one short season. 
I still think however that some tension could have been kept by simply stating that most of Westeros has collapsed into anarchy with Cesei and Dany each holding some scattered pockets.
We should see things like nobles shouting at Cersei in the Throne Room, dissent, riots in King's Landing. Joffrey and Tommen had to deal with dissent, why doesn't Mad Queen Romulan, the Ugliest of Dress?

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Making some sense, more open fronts, allies and fake allies....

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21 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I don't think wh would have made sense eventhough, but it would be less laughable if he tried to convince the New Queen.

WF, completely agree. They could have developed the reunions of the Stark family. Even making it more bittersweet. It's not just about re-telling eachother's stories, but some scenes that really showing the girls trying to understand what has happened to Bran, while watching him, the Stark sisters not competing for the PromQueenGames, telling eachother things -good and bad-that have to be told after all these years.

LF should not be there.

 

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Making some sense, more open fronts, allies and fake allies....

I was surprised to see the smallfolk pleased with Euron.

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10 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

I was surprised to see the smallfolk pleased with Euron.

Yeah, exactly, But Not only with Euron, with Cersei...

I didn't understand why she calls herself a Good Queen saying that Dany will burn Westeros after all she did. I mean, a civil war should happen.

I'd be fine with Cersei having allies (and as I mentioned fake allies that could betray her like LF if he had been a well---written character after s4), but it makes no sense that everyone is fine with her.

It's implied she told them that it was an accident. Nobody believes it. Hot Pie knows it. SO it would have been cool to see what the lords were thinking, that they didn't believe in her, and that, given that they have huge armies, they should plan to betray here in some way. Some secretly planned riots, or anything.

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20 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Yeah, exactly, But Not only with Euron, with Cersei...

I didn't understand why she calls herself a Good Queen saying that Dany will burn Westeros after all she did. I mean, a civil war should happen.

I'd be fine with Cersei having allies (and as I mentioned fake allies that could betray her like LF if he had been a well---written character after s4), but it makes no sense that everyone is fine with her.

It's implied she told them that it was an accident. Nobody believes it. Hot Pie knows it. SO it would have been cool to see what the lords were thinking, that they didn't believe in her, and that, given that they have huge armies, they should plan to betray here in some way. Some secretly planned riots, or anything.

This.  Again, I think the show was sort of screwed just because Lena Headey is such a great actor and Cersei became such an important character.  They needed to keep her alive and therefore they needed her to somehow be a threat to Dany.  It's diverged a lot from the books where it seems like GRRM is telling a story based on Cersei's madness and incompetence and watching everything crumble around her, but the show needed to keep her around so instead they made Dany/Tyrion incompetent and Cersei suddenly seem smart.

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2 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

This.  Again, I think the show was sort of screwed just because Lena Headey is such a great actor and Cersei became such an important character.  They needed to keep her alive and therefore they needed her to somehow be a threat to Dany.  It's diverged a lot from the books where it seems like GRRM is telling a story based on Cersei's madness and incompetence and watching everything crumble around her, but the show needed to keep her around so instead they made Dany/Tyrion incompetent and Cersei suddenly seem smart.

Yes, they deviated a lot from the source, at first you didn't feel there were "super protagonists". I for one liked Jon quite a lot, for instance.

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5 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

This.  Again, I think the show was sort of screwed just because Lena Headey is such a great actor and Cersei became such an important character.  They needed to keep her alive and therefore they needed her to somehow be a threat to Dany.  It's diverged a lot from the books where it seems like GRRM is telling a story based on Cersei's madness and incompetence and watching everything crumble around her, but the show needed to keep her around so instead they made Dany/Tyrion incompetent and Cersei suddenly seem smart.

The show - and books to be fair - lean too heavily at times on Good is Dumb tropes. Leads to the grimdark overly cynical angle. 

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IMO the show killed Myrcella and Tommen too soon. They should have kept at least one, to give legitimacy to Cersei.

I'm OK with removing fAegon and Cersei facing Daenerys. I don't know how GRRM will manage both fAegon and Cersei against Daenerys. I suppose Varys will marry him to Myrcella. After failing an alliance with Daenerys. The guys always have his plans thwarted by his paws.

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4 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

IMO the show killed Myrcella and Tommen too soon. They should have kept at least one, to give legitimacy to Cersei.

I'm OK with removing fAegon and Cersei facing Daenerys. I don't know how GRRM will manage both fAegon and Cersei against Daenerys. I suppose Varys will marry him to Myrcella. After failing an alliance with Daenerys. The guys always have his plans thwarted by his paws.

So Trystane would still be chopped liver?

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20 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

So Trystane would still be chopped liver?

Whole Dorne was a catastrophe after the so good first season with Oberyn. Trystane death by the SS was the summit of it.

IF we had fAegon, he would have to choose between Dorne (Arianne) and the Lannisters (Myrcella). Could he have both against Daenerys? Maybe. After Quentyn, I don't see Dorne going to Daenerys. If fAegon had to marry Myrcella, someone could have found Trystane "unnecessary". Unlucky Dorne's boys. But too many IF and speculations, I'm lost.

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Another thing: I'd have Sansa trained in arms. The White Walkers will come for everyone, so everyone will have to fight, even if only to protect others. Everyone minus Gilly and Little Sam took part in the Battle of Castle Black. Plus, Sansa's the head of House Stark, might come in handy if executions need to be made (Ex: Littlefinger).

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4 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Another thing: I'd have Sansa trained in arms. The White Walkers will come for everyone, so everyone will have to fight, even if only to protect others. Everyone minus Gilly and Little Sam took part in the Battle of Castle Black. Plus, Sansa's the head of House Stark, might come in handy if executions need to be made (Ex: Littlefinger).

Is she the head of House Stark? On the show that is not really clear right now. Other than his last name being Snow, Jon effectively acts as the head of House Stark. 

Although he won’t be head of House Stark for long would be my guess.

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7 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Is she the head of House Stark? On the show that is not really clear right now. Other than his last name being Snow, Jon effectively acts as the head of House Stark. 

Although he won’t be head of House Stark for long would be my guess.

Well, since Jon is mining dragon glass, chasing wights, and screwing his aunt, Bran is three-eyed crowing, being a jerk to Meera, being unsympathetic about Sansa's wedding night, and saying "Robert's Rebellion was based on a lie", while Arya is threatening to kill and replace Sansa ("You doodle! Me Spongebob!" I keep thinking of that when I see that scene with Arya's bag of faces). For most of Season 7, she's the Stark in Winterfell.

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4 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Well, since Jon is mining dragon glass, chasing wights, and screwing his aunt, Bran is three-eyed crowing, being a jerk to Meera, being unsympathetic about Sansa's wedding night, and saying "Robert's Rebellion was based on a lie", while Arya is threatening to kill and replace Sansa ("You doodle! Me Spongebob!" I keep thinking of that when I see that scene with Arya's bag of faces).

Not sure what that means. 

My only point is Jon is currently the head of house stark. He makes the decision to forgive the karstarks and umbers and has them pledge fealty to house stark again. He is the one that decides to pledge House stark again to house targaryen. So he is the one making the big decisions at least as of 7x07. 

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18 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Is she the head of House Stark? On the show that is not really clear right now. Other than his last name being Snow, Jon effectively acts as the head of House Stark. 

 

I think it is a question of hats. Sansa is Lady of Winterfell as the eldest living Stark, a title she seemed relatively happy to pass over to Bran once he turned up because he is both ahead of her in the line of succession (being a boy). Jon is the King in the North, a title that he was effectively elected to by the Northern Lords and is separate from Lordship of Winterfell. Though Sansa is in a position of privilege being Jon's sister, she is essentially one of Jon's lords.

29 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Another thing: I'd have Sansa trained in arms. The White Walkers will come for everyone, so everyone will have to fight, even if only to protect others. Everyone minus Gilly and Little Sam took part in the Battle of Castle Black. Plus, Sansa's the head of House Stark, might come in handy if executions need to be made (Ex: Littlefinger).

 

I agree. Even though it wasn't in the show, the Battle at Castle Black in the books had prostitutes from Mole's Town taking part.

Jon's decree was that everyone - male and female - of age to fight must begin training. I don't see why Sansa would be exempt from this. What would have been brilliant would be if Sansa, knowing that she will need to defend herself, after seeing Arya training with Brienne she then asked them both to help her in preparing for this. It would have been a nice.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Faera said:

I think it is a question of hats. Sansa is Lady of Winterfell as the eldest living Stark, a title she seemed relatively happy to pass over to Bran once he turned up because he is both ahead of her in the line of succession (being a boy). Jon is the King in the North, a title that he was effectively elected to by the Northern Lords and is separate from Lordship of Winterfell. Though Sansa is in a position of privilege being Jon's sister, she is essentially one of Jon's lords.

That is certainly one interpretation since they have not been clear on that. Although I am not sure that necessarily squares since Jon makes decisions in the name of House Stark explicitly multiple times, recieves oaths of fealty not to him or to an office called the King in the North but to House Stark so do we have a situation where the head of House Stark is not the Lord of Winterfell? What happens if Jon has kids? Etc. its a litle ambiguous. 

Although I don’t think they bothered fleshing out the details on the show because Jon won’t be KITN/ Head of House Stark for very long. 

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@jcmontea, you are right, of course. I am ultimately trying to apply logic to a situation that has none and the TV show has never and will never bother to explain. If this were the book, GRRM would have probably have had Jon found his own cadet branch "House Whitestark" or something, to explain a difference.

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1 hour ago, Faera said:

@jcmontea, you are right, of course. I am ultimately trying to apply logic to a situation that has none and the TV show has never and will never bother to explain. If this were the book, GRRM would have probably have had Jon found his own cadet branch "House Whitestark" or something, to explain a difference.

Or Jonstark? Keeping with the Karlon Starks becoming the Karstarks...

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28 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Or Jonstark? Keeping with the Karlon Starks becoming the Karstarks...

Maybe "Snowstark" or just "Whitewolf" after his kingly moniker. Point being, GRRM probably would have Jon found a new cadet family.

(I doubt the book will go down this exact route though because they have Robb's will floating around. If Rickon is dead and Bran remains MIA, its contents still stand. So, Jon really would just be "Jon Stark".)

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