Beardy the Wildling

[S7] What would you have done differently?

110 posts in this topic

On 11/13/2017 at 6:45 PM, Faera said:

Pre-S6ish: Totally.
Post-S6ish/S7: Wights can inexplicably be killed by dragonglass, so, there is that.

Though, it raises an interesting question. If Daenerys got "wighted" -- would she retain her fireproof skin and hair? :huh:

I set up a thread about that here. There seems to be some confusion.

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Mostly everything has been covered in this thread. But for me, the dialog is just so cringe worthy now. It started to drop off after the books, but now it's just on another level of awful.

Calling it now (and I know we have joked about this on other threads but) about 1/8th of all dialog next season is dick jokes. 

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1 hour ago, btfu806 said:

Calling it now (and I know we have joked about this on other threads but) about 1/8th of all dialog next season is dick jokes. 

Youtube Poop's weigh-in on the matter:

(time: 4:48)

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To go in a different direction, I wouldn’t have the part about Rhaegar marrying Lyanna and setting aside Rhaenys and Aegon son of Elia, which would make them bastards. 

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19 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

To go in a different direction, I wouldn’t have the part about Rhaegar marrying Lyanna and setting aside Rhaenys and Aegon son of Elia, which would make them bastards. 

A part of me wonders why they felt the need to include that plot point...

 

On 21/11/2017 at 4:15 PM, btfu806 said:

Mostly everything has been covered in this thread. But for me, the dialog is just so cringe worthy now. It started to drop off after the books, but now it's just on another level of awful.

Calling it now (and I know we have joked about this on other threads but) about 1/8th of all dialog next season is dick jokes. 
 

4

A huge problem with the show's scripts now is that you can't tell whether they are character-driven or plot driven anymore. Prior to them running out of books to adapt, I always saw the show as a very character driven show. Yes, there was obviously a plot going on but its progression is a lot more to do with the character's motivations as each one reacted differently to similar situations. Now, it doesn't matter who the characters are -- they just need to get to a certain point. As a result, there are many more cases of scenes where dialogue appears that could have been said by anyone.

Plus, for a series that was rushing towards the end game, they didn't half have a lot of filler scenes that didn't need to happen.

Oh yeah, and there will be dick jokes -- especially if Bronn gets into another scene with Pod again.

On 20/11/2017 at 8:23 PM, Angel Eyes said:

I set up a thread about that here. There seems to be some confusion.

Aha, I don't think it's that big of an issue. If Daenerys was wighted, I imagine she would have the same flammability as any other wight. Her fire-proofness in the show was always ridiculous anyway.

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20 hours ago, Faera said:

A part of me wonders why they felt the need to include that plot point...

The main ideas i have on this are:

- to make him King vs just Prince Consort when he marries Dany 

- to present an interesting conflict for Dany in having to deal with the fact that she is not the rightful heir as she has thought since Viserys died

- there will be some thematic significance to the fact that Jon was Rhaegar’s true heir the whole time, would have been Crown Prince without the rebellion and likely would have married Dany in that alternative life 

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1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

there will be some thematic significance to the fact that Jon was Rhaegar’s true heir the whole time, would have been Crown Prince without the rebellion and likely would have married Dany in that alternative life 

I'd love it if they challenged Dany's entitlement a little, but I don't trust D&D enough to think it'll happen.

I just think they wanted Jon to be officially King, in line with their 'GURL POWAAAA- butnotreallygurlsonlyhavepowaabypretendingtobemenhavingdragonsordatingawesomemen' mentality.

Bless D&D's cotton socks, they try so hard to appease the feminists but are adept at portraying anything but female empowerment.

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2 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

I'd love it if they challenged Dany's entitlement a little, but I don't trust D&D enough to think it'll happen.

I just think they wanted Jon to be officially King, in line with their 'GURL POWAAAA- butnotreallygurlsonlyhavepowaabypretendingtobemenhavingdragonsordatingawesomemen' mentality.

Bless D&D's cotton socks, they try so hard to appease the feminists but are adept at portraying anything but female empowerment.

This is interesting. 

My current thought on this is that she is going to offer to put aside her claim and accept Jon as the Targ heir and her King. Her coming to this point will be one of her main arcs next year. 

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This picture is interesting kind of shows how stupid Preston’s suggestion of a Dorne landing is

 

Edited by jcmontea

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4 hours ago, jcmontea said:

This picture is interesting kind of shows how stupid Preston’s suggestion of a Dorne landing is

Not quite sure how this inherently proves anything. If you don't know whose alliances are where beyond the allies with you right now, and you have an army of seasick Dothraki, provided Varys has been as useless as he was in Season 7, one could conclude that landing in the northern parts of the Salty Dornish 'boot' on the east may be for the best, or even a little southern if you have fears of a Westerosi navy being close by the Crownlands.

If you're sailing from Essos via the Jade Sea and whatnot, it is, at the very least, the shortest possible naval journey. Just a picture alone doesn't really prove how inherently stupid it is.

I do agree with you that a Reach Landing would, if you're sure of the naval situation being peachy (for example, at the equivalent point in the books, the Reach is getting rekt by Euron's gallivanting, which would make it difficult for Daenerys to land) would be better for a starting point of all-out war with the Lannisters, but otherwise, simply landing ASAP into a place you know is allied with you might work out a bit smoother than, you know...

  • Assuming there's no royal navy that's retaken Dragonstone.
  • Assuming there's no royal navy that'd stop you on the way to Dragonstone.
  • Assuming no-one will notice you've just sailed right up into Crownlands waters with a massive Tyrell-Martell-Greyjoy fleet.
  • Assuming there's enough food on a tiny island to support thousands of Dothraki screamers and Unsullied.
  • Assuming Stannis didn't leave behind a token force.

You see what I'm getting at here? Preston's suggestion of a Dorne landing may not be ideal 'Daenerys crushes the enemy' landing material, but it at least has the benefit of making some sense from a pragmatic 'I don't know what's happening yet, let's just, you know, land anywhere and start planning' perspective. Taking Dragonstone, an island that's for all intents and purposes next door to King's Landing, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Edited by Beardy the Wildling

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6 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Not quite sure how this inherently proves anything. If you don't know whose alliances are where beyond the allies with you right now, and you have an army of seasick Dothraki, provided Varys has been as useless as he was in Season 7, one could conclude that landing in the northern parts of the Salty Dornish 'boot' on the east may be for the best, or even a little southern if you have fears of a Westerosi navy being close by the Crownlands.

If you're sailing from Essos via the Jade Sea and whatnot, it is, at the very least, the shortest possible naval journey. Just a picture alone doesn't really prove how inherently stupid it is.

I do agree with you that a Reach Landing would, if you're sure of the naval situation being peachy (for example, at the equivalent point in the books, the Reach is getting rekt by Euron's gallivanting, which would make it difficult for Daenerys to land) would be better for a starting point of all-out war with the Lannisters, but otherwise, simply landing ASAP into a place you know is allied with you might work out a bit smoother than, you know...

  • Assuming there's no royal navy that's retaken Dragonstone.
  • Assuming there's no royal navy that'd stop you on the way to Dragonstone.
  • Assuming no-one will notice you've just sailed right up into Crownlands waters with a massive Tyrell-Martell-Greyjoy fleet.
  • Assuming there's enough food on a tiny island to support thousands of Dothraki screamers and Unsullied.
  • Assuming Stannis didn't leave behind a token force.

You see what I'm getting at here? Preston's suggestion of a Dorne landing may not be ideal 'Daenerys crushes the enemy' landing material, but it at least has the benefit of making some sense from a pragmatic 'I don't know what's happening yet, let's just, you know, land anywhere and start planning' perspective. Taking Dragonstone, an island that's for all intents and purposes next door to King's Landing, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I dunno, take a third option with splitting with half going right away to Sunspear and the dragons and Dothraki to Dragonstone? Dragonstone had symbolism behind it since the Targaryens ruled there before taking the continent and Daenerys was born there. Have the Dothraki go to Dragonstone since they don’t do so good on water.

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7 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Have the Dothraki go to Dragonstone since they don’t do so good on water.

Making it to Dragonstone in one piece is unlikely, and its success requires a lot of assumptions (what I put up there).

In the show, 9000 contrived coincidences (Cersei just happened to not retake it, Euron just happened to not spot them, King's Landing just happened to not have a navy (despite there being no Aurane Waters to make off with it in the show), Stannis just happened not to leave forces there, there just happened to be enough available food to feed an army there, the doors just happened to be unlocked, etc) allow it to be possible, but in a more logical world you'd have to play it safe regardless of the Targ sentimentality Dany has.

Edited by Beardy the Wildling

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Let me think:

Daenerys' forces are coming from the southeast, right? So they should make landfall at Sunspear, and then march to Highgarden, spreading the word of Daenerys' return as they go and preaching the evils of Cersei? By the way, who's holding the Stormlands?

Another thing I'd change: Have the Blackfish escape.

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2 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Another thing I'd change: Have the Blackfish escape.

His offscreen death felt like one massive middle finger.

Blackfish in the books: Badass old man who prioritises his pride over pragmatism and handily kicks Frey ass on several occasions, then escapes when he's finally overwhelmed via swimming. Before his escape his instils some serious self-doubt in Jaime, who is trying his damnedest to reform.

Blackfish in the show: Escaped the Red Wedding with the world's luckiest piss, disappears, then reappears to snark at a still Cersei-loving Jaime from Riverrun's battlements (somehow), then die offscreen.

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3 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

His offscreen death felt like one massive middle finger.

Blackfish in the books: Badass old man who prioritises his pride over pragmatism and handily kicks Frey ass on several occasions, then escapes when he's finally overwhelmed via swimming. Before his escape his instils some serious self-doubt in Jaime, who is trying his damnedest to reform.

Blackfish in the show: Escaped the Red Wedding with the world's luckiest piss, disappears, then reappears to snark at a still Cersei-loving Jaime from Riverrun's battlements (somehow), then die offscreen.

It seems that D&D dislikes the Tullys almost as much as they dislike Stannis.

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2 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

It seems that D&D dislikes the Tullys almost as much as they dislike Stannis.

They also seemed to despise Doran Martell.

Heck, in the show, the worst thing Doran does is offer people soup! Obviously he deserved to die for being a 'weak man'.

Though I can see why they were bored with Areo 'the Camera who Rides' Hotah. Gods is his narrative dull.

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11 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

They also seemed to despise Doran Martell.

Heck, in the show, the worst thing Doran does is offer people soup! Obviously he deserved to die for being a 'weak man'.

Though I can see why they were bored with Areo 'the Camera who Rides' Hotah. Gods is his narrative dull.

They pretty much swapped Ellaria and Doran's roles, though Doran being the vengeful one works better because it's not mindless (though there are a few stupid parts, like betrothing Arianne to Viserys and later Daenerys to Quentyn). For Ellaria, I was surprised anyone's following her since she and the Sand Snakes are kinslayers. Maybe that's why they can't go to Dorne?... 

Also, maybe have Quentyn show up in Meereen right when all hell breaks loose at the fighting pits?...

Edited by Angel Eyes

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17 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Maybe that's why they can't go to Dorne?... 

That'd be funny. In actuality, the Sand Snakes just made off with the Dornish navy before the other Dornish houses could realise they'd killed Doran Martell and his son. The resultant conversation:

Dany: Okay, let's land in Dorne, the Dothraki are getting sick of this sailing shit.

Ellaria: We, uh... can't.

Dany: Why not?

Ellaria: OH, HOW CONVENIENT I HAVE INFO THAT DRAGONSTONE IS UNOCCUPIED AND THERE'S NO NAVIES IN THE WAY.

Dany: Oh, good.

(sails to Dragonstone)

Ellaria (to self): Wait, it actually was unoccupied?

Edited by Beardy the Wildling

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7 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Not quite sure how this inherently proves anything. If you don't know whose alliances are where beyond the allies with you right now, and you have an army of seasick Dothraki, provided Varys has been as useless as he was in Season 7, one could conclude that landing in the northern parts of the Salty Dornish 'boot' on the east may be for the best, or even a little southern if you have fears of a Westerosi navy being close by the Crownlands.

If you're sailing from Essos via the Jade Sea and whatnot, it is, at the very least, the shortest possible naval journey. Just a picture alone doesn't really prove how inherently stupid it is.

I do agree with you that a Reach Landing would, if you're sure of the naval situation being peachy (for example, at the equivalent point in the books, the Reach is getting rekt by Euron's gallivanting, which would make it difficult for Daenerys to land) would be better for a starting point of all-out war with the Lannisters, but otherwise, simply landing ASAP into a place you know is allied with you might work out a bit smoother than, you know...

  • Assuming there's no royal navy that's retaken Dragonstone.
  • Assuming there's no royal navy that'd stop you on the way to Dragonstone.
  • Assuming no-one will notice you've just sailed right up into Crownlands waters with a massive Tyrell-Martell-Greyjoy fleet.
  • Assuming there's enough food on a tiny island to support thousands of Dothraki screamers and Unsullied.
  • Assuming Stannis didn't leave behind a token force.

You see what I'm getting at here? Preston's suggestion of a Dorne landing may not be ideal 'Daenerys crushes the enemy' landing material, but it at least has the benefit of making some sense from a pragmatic 'I don't know what's happening yet, let's just, you know, land anywhere and start planning' perspective. Taking Dragonstone, an island that's for all intents and purposes next door to King's Landing, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

It makes no sense. Its the type of landing some know nothing who makes you tube videos would write versus a military comander planning for a 120k force army to land in Westeros who has knowlege of the actual terrain. 

You basically have to invent some reason to make it happen and freaking sea sickness is a super stupid one since it doesn’t take that much longer to sail to the reach or to dragonstone and the more logical thing is just to have people who are sick fast untilt they reach land. 

The picture highlights why its dumb because it highlights the terrain separating Dorne from the Westerosi core territory. The same terrain that allowed Dorne to maintain its independence longer and leads to a unique culture makes it horrible to land a large military force there. 

Edited by jcmontea

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1 minute ago, jcmontea said:

It makes no sense. Its the type of landing some know nothing who makes you tube videos would write versus a military comander planning for a 120k force army to land in Westeros who has knowlege of the actual terrain. 

You basically have to invent some reason to make it happen and freaking sea sickness is a super stupid one since it doesn’t take that much longer to sail to the reach or to dragonstone and the more logical thing is just to have people who are sick fast untilt they reach land. 

The picture highlights why its dumb because it highlights the terrain separating Dorne from the Westerosi core territory. The same terrain that allowed Dorne to maintain its independence longer and leads to a unique culture makes it horrible to land a large military force there. 

Wasn't there something in the books about the Dothraki being seasick?

Possibility 2: Land in the Reach, pick up Jorah at Oldtown after Sam flays him, Olenna will raise her banners?

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