Manhole Eunuchsbane

Weinstein/Hollywood Sex Scandal Continues To Produce Headlines

398 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Apparently this is a thing!  And I think when someone is talking about something traumatic or difficult, or otherwise expressing emotion, there isn't a better response.  And this thread has a lot of that, and it's actually good and positive and cathartic :)

Yeah, it's taking quite a bit of time and training to properly recognize this. I suppose I could try and apply that same rule to this board in some small measure. ;)

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34 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Maybe this is better suited to the Politics thread, but I think it's related...

Fundamentalist Home-Schoolers Believe Grown Men Courting Teen Girls is Natural

 http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/11/14/fundamentalist_homeschoolers_are_one_group_of_roy_moore_allies_who_think.html?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

/I think this speaks to the point that kairparavel was making upthread about Jerry Lee Lewis and Elvis, and the like. This seems to be mostly a Southern thing.

As the article states, this is a fundamentalist home schooler thing. That subculture may be stronger in the South but it certainly exists all over the United States.

And it wasn't very far back in history when a teenaged girl marrying an older man was considered a positive thing in many parts of the English speaking world. The article mentions the "Elsie Dinsmore" series, which was written in the USA in the 1870s. But 1887 also saw the publication of Thelma by British author Marie Corelli. Corelli is one of those authors forgotten today whose books were huge bestsellers while she was alive. Thelma features a title character who is loved by two different men. She marries the one she loves, but the other stays a close friend. In the last chapter, Thelma gives birth to a daughter named Thelma, who from an early age says she loves her mother's rejected suitor, and she marries him when she's 16, so that he can marry "Thelma" after all. When I first read the end of that book I was appalled -- but obviously it fit the taste of many readers in Britain and the USA back in 1887.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3823

 

 

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1 minute ago, Ormond said:

 But 1887 also saw the publication of Thelma by British author Marie Corelli. Corelli is one of those authors forgotten today whose books were huge bestsellers while she was alive. Thelma features a title character who is loved by two different men. She marries the one she loves, but the other stays a close friend. In the last chapter, Thelma gives birth to a daughter named Thelma, who from an early age says she loves her mother's rejected suitor, and she marries him when she's 16, so that he can marry "Thelma" after all. When I first read the end of that book I was appalled -- but obviously it fit the taste of many readers in Britain and the USA back in 1887.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3823

That is pretty fucking creepy. Made somehow creepier by the fact that the author is a woman for some strange reason.

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26 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

That is pretty fucking creepy. Made somehow creepier by the fact that the author is a woman for some strange reason.

Which should respond to the poster who thinks that societies cannot be misogynist or devalue women just because everybody has a mom. Women can internalize and pass on misogynistic values too, often without realizing. Just examine the career of Phyllis Schlafly.

Or my mother. She was strong and bad-ass. She stood up to generals in a Third World dictatorship. She raised two sons as an immigrant widow and sent them both to Ivy League schools. She battled thirty years of ingrained doctor sexism running a medical education program. And she was sexist. When I was in academic competitions in my school years, she used to talk about how bad girls were under pressure.

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Oh pfft, you want to see a recent example of a female authors writing bad shit about females I could go on for pages, but this is super not the place, I think.

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It will be interesting if we find out who the two Congressmen are:

Quote

WASHINGTON — Rep. Jackie Speier told a House panel on Tuesday that she knows of two current members of Congress — a Democrat and a Republican — who have engaged in sexual harassment, further exposing an institution that has been accused of looking away from sexual misconduct.

Speier, a California Democrat, said the harassment ranged from "propositions such as, ‘Are you going to be a good girl?’ to perpetrators exposing their genitals, to victims having their private parts grabbed on the House floor."

Speier did not name the two representatives as part of her testimony at a high-profile hearing on workplace sexual harassment in Congress.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/congresswomen-say-2-sexual-harassers-are-still-congress-n820751

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4 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Which should respond to the poster who thinks that societies cannot be misogynist or devalue women just because everybody has a mom. Women can internalize and pass on misogynistic values too, often without realizing. Just examine the career of Phyllis Schlafly.

Or my mother. She was strong and bad-ass. She stood up to generals in a Third World dictatorship. She raised two sons as an immigrant widow and sent them both to Ivy League schools. She battled thirty years of ingrained doctor sexism running a medical education program. And she was sexist. When I was in academic competitions in my school years, she used to talk about how bad girls were under pressure.

Yeah, I had similar experience with women who were integral to my upbringing. My maternal grandmother (Nonie) primarily. She was a tough as nails, super capable, very intelligent woman who I think was really ahead of her time in terms of her attitude and forthrightness. I'm not sure I'd go so far to call her sexist exactly, but she had disdain for any sort of emotionally "weak" reactions (such as crying) from women, particularly where my mother was concerned. She was constantly hammering my mom for one perceived emotional weakness or another. And my mom is not a weak woman.

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5 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I'm one. So yeah, getting told to fucking shut up and listen? Not terribly appreciated.

I'm sorry that happened to you.  It's a terrible thing that can leave deep wounds that last a lifetime.

This part isn't necessarily directed at you, but I lost my spot in the thread and can't find a different one to quote.

Here's a hypothetical that explains why it's so frustrating and upsetting when men insert themselves into the conversation.  Not merely participate, but the equivalent of stomping and screaming with their mentoo/notonlywomen hashtags.  Imagine you're in a forum where children are talking about the horrors of being molested by someone they know.  Other children share their stories and maybe an adult comes in to participate in the conversation and offers their own story if relevant.  Then someone comes in and is all "#ADULTSTOO  #NOTONLYCHILDREN we mustn't be ageist with this conversation!!!!!!"

In a prior version of this thread there was a poster who shared a story of how he was physically harassed in his childhood.  He didn't #mentoo his way into the conversation, but instead participated and shared in a space that was safe.  There's a reason he was treated with (I hope!) kindness and empathy while the #mentoo posters weren't.  #mentoo posters are the #ADULTSTOO people.  Is there a single person on this forum who thinks the #adultstoo posters aren't at least highly inappropriate and upsetting?  (ok, I know there are at least three who probably say #adultstoo people are perfectly fine, but I'm speaking to those who don't quite understand why it can be so infuriating to have men stomp their way around these discussion).  

So share away, listen, participate.  Start the stomping and you'll get the evil eye and a fierce word from Kelli or some other awesome woman here.  

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1 hour ago, Ormond said:

As the article states, this is a fundamentalist home schooler thing. That subculture may be stronger in the South but it certainly exists all over the United States.

And it wasn't very far back in history when a teenaged girl marrying an older man was considered a positive thing in many parts of the English speaking world. The article mentions the "Elsie Dinsmore" series, which was written in the USA in the 1870s. But 1887 also saw the publication of Thelma by British author Marie Corelli. Corelli is one of those authors forgotten today whose books were huge bestsellers while she was alive. Thelma features a title character who is loved by two different men. She marries the one she loves, but the other stays a close friend. In the last chapter, Thelma gives birth to a daughter named Thelma, who from an early age says she loves her mother's rejected suitor, and she marries him when she's 16, so that he can marry "Thelma" after all. When I first read the end of that book I was appalled -- but obviously it fit the taste of many readers in Britain and the USA back in 1887.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3823

 

 

Don't forget Daddy Long Legs (very popular novel published 1912) -- and particularly that excruciating  1955 film made of it (departing rather far from the novel) with baby Leslie Caron and quite long in the tooth Fred Astaire. At least four popular films were made of this novel, with this one the final, as far as I know.

Yes, it has been mentioned here, that long tradition of very young girls getting courted (or abused) and made pregnant by / married to much older men, that still prevails strongly in the attitudes of segments of the USian populace.  It's god's will, doncha know, that she be taken over and guided by an older man, and, preferably pregnant by him, to raise more right types for the Jesus Warrior Corps for the civilization of the world.

 

Edited by Zorral

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1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

That is pretty fucking creepy. Made somehow creepier by the fact that the author is a woman for some strange reason.

  Internalized sexism is real.  Women being the first line of defense for reporters and being dismissive is real.

My mother preferred to keep her symphony pal rather than report to the mother of ONE of my abusers.  After all, "they'd had the same seats at the orchestra for AGES." 

"YAH, Mum, I know.  He was my babysitter." 

The pure rage I have been spewing in here in no way meant to belittle male survivors.  We are GLAD that men are also coming forth with their stories, but we are TIRED of men talking ABOUT women's issues.  

Abuse and assault can happen to ANYONE.

The daily  hammer of keeping oneself safe and STILL constantly having ones boundaries crossed in a particular and viciously sexist way is a women's issue.

EVERY TIME I walk into (even an internet space) I count the number of women like Jason Bourne counting exits.  

If I see ONE WOMAN and not MANY in conversation that should be dominated by women, I AM GOING TO FREAK THE FUCK OUT.  I KNOW THEY ARE COUNTING, TOO.  So are all of the ones that stop by and don't post.  If you drown us out, you are disappearing us all over again and we are TIRED of being disappeared.

With all that off my chest, I am so sorry.  All my hugs and support from New Orleans.  

@Dr. Pepper way better analogy than what I had. 

Thank you for your service. 

I just can't right now.  I can't I'm too angry and it's finals and I'm so sick and tired of all of it.  It's all over again; it's just every fucking day all of it all over again.

1 hour ago, Darth Richard II said:

Oh pfft, you want to see a recent example of a female authors writing bad shit about females I could go on for pages, but this is super not the place, I think.

Take it to Lit, but expect it to become a cesspool in 5 minutes.

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32 minutes ago, Lily Valley said:

The daily  hammer of keeping oneself safe and STILL constantly having ones boundaries crossed in a particular and viciously sexist way is a women's issue.

Yes.

Here was my routine for when I used to go out in my early adulthood. Consider how many of these things I should never have had to do.

I think twelve of us are going all up... but only Ben and Greg are coming from our guy friends. Hmm... Ben usually leaves early and Greg has an exam tomorrow. So if they come, they might both leave early. I think I'll quickly call Ben first and find out if he is leaving early, otherwise there won't be anybody to walk me to my bike.
Actually, will I ride today? Last time I was wearing my riding stuff I didn't have to line up at all, they just waved us all through. But I really can't be bothered listening to another guy ask me what else I can ride between my legs. You know what? Time for fun, I'm going to just dress up...

(First outfit) This is my favourite, look how I look! Oh wow, girl, you're looking amazing! Although... yeah... should I be wearing red? I mean, I like how my boobs look... you can see I've got them, for one thing... but... hmm... we're starting at Euro Bier tonight, and people like to "press up" there. Don't want another one of those nights, I'll try something else...

(Second outfit) Urgh, no. What are you, a nun?

(Third outfit) Okay, but if I go with this, I'll have to wear heels, because I don't have anything else that matches. Maybe I can put some flats in my purse? Then, if I need to walk a bit faster or jog, I won't trip over.

(Fourth outfit) I can wear this with flats... I think I'll have to wear a top underneath this because it does show a bit too much.

(Fifth outfit) Too cold.

(Back to first) I have to leave in ten minutes or I'll miss the train. I'm not going in by myself and Clare and Hannah are already waiting for me.

(Third outfit, again) Ben just texted, he isn't coming... hmm... should I still go? Clare and Hannah are going to want to stay all night, so who is going to walk out with me when I need to leave?

...

And so on it would go... :( 

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2 hours ago, Lily Valley said:

@Dr. Pepper

 

Take it to Lit, but expect it to become a cesspool in 5 minutes.

Oh, you don't have to tell me. :(

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1 hour ago, Kelli Fury said:

Didn’t you goodby cruel thread us like six times already? You can go, don’t let us keep you from that leaving you were so set on doing

Maybe he'll put us all on ignore.

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16 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I'm sorry that happened to you.  It's a terrible thing that can leave deep wounds that last a lifetime.

This part isn't necessarily directed at you, but I lost my spot in the thread and can't find a different one to quote.

Here's a hypothetical that explains why it's so frustrating and upsetting when men insert themselves into the conversation.  Not merely participate, but the equivalent of stomping and screaming with their mentoo/notonlywomen hashtags.  Imagine you're in a forum where children are talking about the horrors of being molested by someone they know.  Other children share their stories and maybe an adult comes in to participate in the conversation and offers their own story if relevant.  Then someone comes in and is all "#ADULTSTOO  #NOTONLYCHILDREN we mustn't be ageist with this conversation!!!!!!"

In a prior version of this thread there was a poster who shared a story of how he was physically harassed in his childhood.  He didn't #mentoo his way into the conversation, but instead participated and shared in a space that was safe.  There's a reason he was treated with (I hope!) kindness and empathy while the #mentoo posters weren't.  #mentoo posters are the #ADULTSTOO people.  Is there a single person on this forum who thinks the #adultstoo posters aren't at least highly inappropriate and upsetting?  (ok, I know there are at least three who probably say #adultstoo people are perfectly fine, but I'm speaking to those who don't quite understand why it can be so infuriating to have men stomp their way around these discussion).  

So share away, listen, participate.  Start the stomping and you'll get the evil eye and a fierce word from Kelli or some other awesome woman here.  

Well said, thank you.  I wanted to say something like this for a while after reading some of the discussion.  I couldn't quite figure out how to phrase it.  This hits the nail right on the head.

Edited by Guy Kilmore

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1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Old favorite Drew Magary (of Kissing Suzy Kolber and Deadspin fame) wrote a really good piece for GQ regarding Louis CK and the sometimes toxic masculinity that pervades the world of stand-up comedy.

https://www.gq.com/story/all-the-bad-comedy-men?mbid=social_twitter

I don’t imagine there are a lot of comedians out there who are totally healthy mentally, I think it requires a certain mindset and character to do something like that ( I tried it once and it was intense and I’d rather never do it again)

Having said that I don’t like the way everyone is going back and retrofitting old clips of his work ( or anyone’s work ) and examining them for clues or putting new meaning on them. I think it’s possoble to separate him from his comedy. 

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