Renly's 100 Swords

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

I know this has probably been discussed before. I know it is probably to most of us fans, but I honestly just want to complain, and hear your frustrations as well. I am rereading AGoT for the fourth time. Each time I have read this book, Eddard Stark's actions make me more and more disappointed. To me though, the most infuriating and confusing choice he made, was not taking Renly's offer of 100 swords. At this point, he already knew he might need support. Yet, he does nothing. He even painfully regrets the decision a few minutes later, but does nothing about it. Renly was literally returning to sit by Robert. GO BACK TO HIM! I admit, as I know what will happen, it angers me more, but even on my first read I didn't understand it. Renly gave sound advice. He basically offered Eddard his support. Something Eddard had practically none of.

Actually, to go back farther, let's talk about Eddard's lack of any attempt to befriend ANYONE in King's Landing. He should have been attempting to befriend Renly Baratheon since the moment he entered the city. It even seems that Yohn Royce has stayed in Winterfell before, yet he makes no attempt to speak to him or spend time with him. Eddard Stark is rightly praised in the book for being a lord who cares for his men. He invites them to eat with them, listens to them, and frankly, cares for them. He cries over Jory's body in a way I doubt any if the Lannisters or Baratheons would over their underlings. Yet, all this clearly good planning disappears in King's Landing. He makes no attempt to befriend or care for anyone. He invites no one to dinner. He seems to forget all the good lessons he passed on to Jon and Robb as soon as he arrives. 

And this brings me back to Renly. Despite Eddard's lack of effort to befriend him or treat him as a younger brother or anything, Renly still offers him 100 swords. He even realizes he needs them. He should have taken those swords, and he should have found Balon Swann, Yohn Royce, any of the other lords not loyal to Cersei. He could have had 200 men supporting his move. Poor, poor Eddard just never realized the opportunity he had. 

So what do you think is the most infurating move by Eddard Stark?

[Adam Yozza]

I believe, and it's been a while since my last reread, that he didn't accept Renly's offer when it was made because he didn't want to dishonour Robert's final moments with bloodshed or something like that. He does ask after Renly and his men after Robert's death only to discover that he's fled from the city. I suppose I can understand it; being among the nicest guys in the world is why we love Ned after all; even if it does frustrate me knowing what's coming.

 

[Tygett Lannister]

25 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I know this has probably been discussed before. I know it is probably to most of us fans, but I honestly just want to complain, and hear your frustrations as well. I am rereading AGoT for the fourth time. Each time I have read this book, Eddard Stark's actions make me more and more disappointed. To me though, the most infuriating and confusing choice he made, was not taking Renly's offer of 100 swords. At this point, he already knew he might need support. Yet, he does nothing. He even painfully regrets the decision a few minutes later, but does nothing about it. Renly was literally returning to sit by Robert. GO BACK TO HIM! I admit, as I know what will happen, it angers me more, but even on my first read I didn't understand it. Renly gave sound advice. He basically offered Eddard his support. Something Eddard had practically none of.

Actually, to go back farther, let's talk about Eddard's lack of any attempt to befriend ANYONE in King's Landing. He should have been attempting to befriend Renly Baratheon since the moment he entered the city. It even seems that Yohn Royce has stayed in Winterfell before, yet he makes no attempt to speak to him or spend time with him. Eddard Stark is rightly praised in the book for being a lord who cares for his men. He invites them to eat with them, listens to them, and frankly, cares for them. He cries over Jory's body in a way I doubt any if the Lannisters or Baratheons would over their underlings. Yet, all this clearly good planning disappears in King's Landing. He makes no attempt to befriend or care for anyone. He invites no one to dinner. He seems to forget all the good lessons he passed on to Jon and Robb as soon as he arrives. 

And this brings me back to Renly. Despite Eddard's lack of effort to befriend him or treat him as a younger brother or anything, Renly still offers him 100 swords. He even realizes he needs them. He should have taken those swords, and he should have found Balon Swann, Yohn Royce, any of the other lords not loyal to Cersei. He could have had 200 men supporting his move. Poor, poor Eddard just never realized the opportunity he had. 

So what do you think is the most infurating move by Eddard Stark?

Renly would turn his swords against Ned when Ned would tell him he plans on crowning Stannis and proclaim himself a King.

I feel like when he is in KL he plans on finding out about Jon Arryn's murder and expose Lannisters and once justice is done resign and leave for Winterfell, so he doesn't befriends any lords at KL, of course he should do that even if it is for short time. You have to remember Ned thinks he befriended his men but he is described as really cold person so I don't know if his men felt he is their friend.

The most infuriating this he did was tell Cersei he knows about incest and that he will place Stannis on the Throne. What he should have done was accept Baelish's plan and take regency and wait for Stannis to arrive with armies of Dragonstone and let him take the Throne (he would of course inform Stannis he is holding regency and only pretending to support Joffrey as King and that he knows Joffrey is a bastard).

[Ser Uncle P]

36 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Eddard Stark is rightly praised in the book for being a lord who cares for his men. He invites them to eat with them, listens to them, and frankly, cares for them. He cries over Jory's body in a way I doubt any if the Lannisters or Baratheons would over their underlings. Yet, all this clearly good planning disappears in King's Landing. He makes no attempt to befriend or care for anyone. He invites no one to dinner.

Basically the Ned out of the North is a fish out of water, out of his comfort zone. 

[Tygett Lannister]

7 minutes ago, Ser Uncle P said:

Basically the Ned out of the North is a fish out of water, out of his comfort zone. 

Also that yes.

[Adam Yozza]

28 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

You have to remember Ned thinks he befriended his men but he is described as really cold person so I don't know if his men felt he is their friend.

He's described as a cold man in the south. In the North, his people love him.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

On 11/10/2017 at 8:32 PM, Adam Yozza said:

I believe, and it's been a while since my last reread, that he didn't accept Renly's offer when it was made because he didn't want to dishonour Robert's final moments with bloodshed or something like that. He does ask after Renly and his men after Robert's death only to discover that he's fled from the city. I suppose I can understand it; being among the nicest guys in the world is why we love Ned after all; even if it does frustrate me knowing what's coming.

 

Quote of the next paragraph after refusing Renly, "He found himself wondering if he had done the right thing by refusing Lord Renly's offer." He goes on to say he will need his swords, then he sends for LITTLEFINGER! So he decides to trust Littlefinger, and doesn't even bother to send for Renly. He realized his mistake, and sent for Littlefinger, which was a bigger mistake.

On 11/10/2017 at 8:39 PM, Tygett Lannister said:

Renly would turn his swords against Ned when Ned would tell him he plans on crowning Stannis and proclaim himself a King.

I feel like when he is in KL he plans on finding out about Jon Arryn's murder and expose Lannisters and once justice is done resign and leave for Winterfell, so he doesn't befriends any lords at KL, of course he should do that even if it is for short time. You have to remember Ned thinks he befriended his men but he is described as really cold person so I don't know if his men felt he is their friend.

On Renly : I don't think so. I don't think Renly had decided to proclaim himself King at this point. I think Renly wanted rid of the Lannisters as much as Ned. He had an ally sitting in the same city as him and never did anything about it. Loras Tyrell was also a potential ally who he shamed publicly. Anyways, I think Renly would have supported Eddard at least for a time. 

On coldness : Eddard is described as being close with his men. I absolutely think his men felt this. As Addam Yoza said, I think he is considered a good lord who cares deeply for his people in the North.

[Tygett Lannister]

5 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

On Renly : I don't think so. I don't think Renly had decided to proclaim himself King at this point. I think Renly wanted rid of the Lannisters as much as Ned. He had an ally sitting in the same city as him and never did anything about it. Loras Tyrell was also a potential ally who he shamed publicly. Anyways, I think Renly would have supported Eddard at least for a time. 

On coldness : Eddard is described as being close with his men. I absolutely think his men felt this. As Addam Yoza said, I think he is considered a good lord who cares deeply for his people in the North.

Hmm yeah what you are saying about Renly is probably right. While Eddard might be close to some of his men as his household and smallfolk liked him, for vassals most liked him, some didn't. Probably still the most loved Lord Paramount by his vassals. 

[Seams]

In addition to the reason @Adam Yozza cited (Robert is not dead yet and might live) Ned gives two reasons for rejecting Renly's offer. Here is the context, including Ned's first response:

"And what should I do with a hundred swords, my lord?"

"Strike! Now, while the castle sleeps." Renly looked back at Ser Boros again and dropped his voice to an urgent whisper. "We must get Joffrey away from his mother and take him in hand. Protector or no, the man who holds the king holds the kingdom. We should seize Myrcella and Tommen as well. Once we have her children, Cersei will not dare oppose us. The council will confirm you as Lord Protector and make Joffrey your ward."

Ned regarded him coldly. "Robert is not dead yet. The gods may spare him. If not, I shall convene the council to hear his final words and consider the matter of the succession, but I will not dishonor his last hours on earth by shedding blood in his halls and dragging frightened children from their beds." (AGoT, Eddard XIII)

 

And here's his second rationale for rejecting Renly's offer:

 

By the time Ned returned to his chambers, he felt weary and heartsick, yet there was no question of his going back to sleep, not now. When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die, Cersei Lannister had told him in the godswood. He found himself wondering if he had done the right thing by refusing Lord Renly's offer. He had no taste for these intrigues, and there was no honor in threatening children, and yet … if Cersei elected to fight rather than flee, he might well have need of Renly's hundred swords, and more besides. (AGoT, Eddard XIII)

 

In a nutshell, Ned is opposed to frightening children and he believes (hopes, suspects) that Cersei will flee with her children. So it's his same old tragic flaws - he doesn't like to harm children and he trusts people to be honorable. Littlefinger told Ned that he was Ned's friend, and Ned decides to trust him. Varys promises that confession will save Sansa and get Ned sent to the Wall, and Ned trusts him.

 

Although trusting "people" to be honorable might be defining the problem too broadly. Later in the same chapter, Ned accurately predicts the reaction of the male Lannisters:

 

Lord Tywin and Ser Jaime were not men to suffer disgrace meekly; they would fight rather than flee. (AGoT, Eddard XIII)

 

So Ned's second tragic flaw, his expectation that Cersei would flee, may be a case of underestimating a woman's willingness to fight. Why did he expect that Cersei would be any more meek or less defensive than her father and brother would be, under the same circumstances? He knew she had manipulated Robert into ordering the death of Sansa's wolf, so he was aware that she was devious and vindictive.

 

Of course, Ned's demise is ordered by Joffrey, the very child that Ned sought to spare from being dragged out of bed and frightened. So all of his attempts to be generous come back to haunt him.

 

I agree that Eddard relied too much on his trusted inner circle from the North after arriving in King's Landing. Yet, when he did decide to trust Littlefinger, that small expansion of his trust led to his downfall. So I can't really fault him for not doing a lot to reach out to other people as soon as he got to King's Landing. He didn't know for sure who had killed John Arryn, in spite of Lysa's letter to Catelyn. He knew that the Lannisters had spies and allies throughout the Red Keep.

 

In hindsight, Renly probably would have been a good ally for Ned. Probably Ned saw him as Robert's baby brother, and not mature enough to offer a serious set of skills or strategic advice. We are told over and over that Renly resembled the young Robert, and Ned remembered Robert as a good friend, a fighter, and someone who liked to drink and have sex, but not as someone who was wise or canny.

 

Another approach that Ned could have taken to building alliances in King's Landing would have been to make better use of his loyal northern servants in obtaining intelligence and evaluating new acquaintances. If they had been able to gather information via back doors, servants and smallfolk in King's Landing, they could have helped Ned get a reading on the other "players" in the Game of Thrones before he decided who would be a good ally. The author gives us POV passages for both Arya and Bran in which they recount rumors they have heard around Harrenhal and Winterfell. Ned should have had a similar ear to the ground.

[Walda]

Yeah, for me the biggest mistake Ned makes is persuading Robert that Danarys is not a threat, but a child that should not be assassinated before she makes trouble for Westeros. Only, I can't be too angry at him for that.

The things that annoy me about Ned are his deadbeat dad moves: like

Quote

“Easy to say, and harder to do. I will not have you wasting the servants’ time with this. If you want these pups, you will feed them yourselves. Is that understood?”
Bran nodded eagerly. The pup squirmed in his grasp, licked at his face with a warm tongue.
“You must train them as well,” their father said. “You must train them. The kennelmaster will have nothing to do with these monsters, I promise you that. And the gods help you if you neglect them, or brutalize them, or train them badly. These are not dogs to beg for treats and slink off at a kick. A direwolf will rip a man’s arm off his shoulder as easily as a dog will kill a rat. Are you sure you want this?”
“Yes, Father,” Bran said.

and, on this basis, Ned insists on giving a direwolf pup to three year old Rickon, who wasn't there when the contract was agreed to.

Quote

"Rickon is not quite sure.”
“Is he afraid?” Ned asked.
“A little,” she admitted. “He is only three.”
Ned frowned. “He must learn to face his fears. He will not be three forever. And winter is coming.”

Or when Bran broke his promise to his mother:

Quote

His mother was terrified that one day Bran would slip off a wall and kill himself. He told her that he wouldn’t, but she never believed him. Once she made him promise that he would stay on the ground. He had managed to keep that promise for almost a fortnight, miserable every day, until one night he had gone out the window of his bedroom when his brothers were fast asleep.
He confessed his crime the next day in a fit of guilt. Lord Eddard ordered him to the godswood to cleanse himself. Guards were posted to see that Bran remained there alone all night to reflect on his disobedience. The next morning Bran was nowhere to be seen. They finally found him fast asleep in the upper branches of the tallest sentinel in the grove.
As angry as he was, his father could not help but laugh. “You’re not my son,” he told Bran when they fetched him down, “you’re a squirrel. So be it. If you must climb, then climb, but try not to let your mother see you.”

Because there is no dishonour in breaking the promises you make to women?  Or perhaps because, since Rickon was born, he would still have an heir and spare if Bran fell. He took the day Bran made the inevitable slip much more in his stride than Catelyn did. All she could do was hang over Bran, feeding him honeywater to keep him alive. He headed south with the king as soon as it was clear that Bran wasn't going to die immediately, and would probably just be an unconscious quadriplegic for life, no use as a companion for the royal children, and in no more need of a father's care or guidance than a squirrel.

In the Eddard chapters, we are shown more of Robert's intelligence, diplomacy, tact, and efforts to be a good king than anywhere else, but Ned doesn't see it. To him his formerly best friend as an inadequate lout, and he is particularly critical of some of Robert's most canny decisions - his decision to make common cause with Tywin Lannister, marry Cersei, keep Jaime in his Kingsguard, suffer Lancel and Tyrek as his squires, for example.

Eddard approaches everyone in Kings Landing with suspicion and easy contempt: "Robert and his council of cravens and flatterers would beggar the realm if left unchecked … or, worse, sell it to the Lannisters in payment of their loans"  - Renly was a craven flatterer in Eddard's opinion. Petyr Baelish had at least demonstrated a kind of loyalty to his wife, and had clued him in to the spies parked outside his tower. Petyr had cultivated his trust, was secretly helping him discover who murdered Jon Arryn.

Renly was clearly very eager to take part in the tourney Robert had foisted on Ned as an honour. Petyr Baelish probably gets more out of the tourney than Renly, and is probably conspiring with Renly, using the tourney as an excuse to canvas the views and loyalties of the many lords attending, forming a guard ostensibly in the name of the king, but under Renly's command. It seems to me it was Petyr that introduced Renly to Loras, under the guise of introducing him to Margery. That Renly and Eddard both made the mistake of trusting Petyr Baelish.  But Eddard  doesn't seem to hold Petyr responsible for beggaring the realm, or selling it out to the Lannisters. It is Renly he finds strange.

Eddard completely underestimates Cersei (and Danny). The idea that women can play the game of thrones doesn't seem to occur to him, even in prison. Also, Eddard did commit treason. He did pervert the meaning of Robert's last words to suit his own purpose. He did not protect Joffrey or attempt to offer him better guidance than Cersei, a fact that led directly to his own imprisonment, and Joffrey being the king on the Iron Throne, with his mother calling the shots in the exact nightmare scenario that King Robert had attempted to avoid by bringing Ned to King's Landing and in his attempt to bind Joffrey to the Starks via Sansa.

In the end, I suppose I am more angered by Eddard's failure to befriend the Lannisters, than his failure to countenance the slaughter of children, or to accept Renly's military support.