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Freys Injustice

Shouldn't there be a 2nd caretaker after Willem Darry for the exiled Targaryen children?

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If they could transport and plant a lemon tree in Braavos, surely "they" could find someone to groom the royal boy and girl into a King and Queen after Williem Darry's death. 

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You would think, though men to send may have been hard. Doran might not wanna be seen to aid them, but surely it could be done secretly. Provided you had some one good to send whom you could trust that would actually live out a life in exile. 

I wonder this often as i even suspect Eddard of having sent Stark men to Dragonstone and that Darry might have actually been William Dustin. Same problem arises though. The most trust worthy person Stark has is Manderly who is an ace in the pocket for sure, but who could he send? Would Lord William Dustin really wanna live out a life of exile? Maybe not. Though a bawdy man like him may have dreaded a marriage to Lady Barbarey and welcomed a life in the Free cities. For all we know, the Starks, the North and the Dustin's may all be Targaryen Loyalist.

Who could Doran send though? Oberyn? I dont think he would wanna sit in exile raising kids. Areo Hotah? One of the Sand Snakes? Who of worth and talent and loyalty could he send?

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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Set up the children in Norvos. With a rich noble who´s officially unaffiliated to Mellario and Dorne, and who officially is supporting Targaryens out of his personal beneficence.

 

Unofficially, some of the money Dorne openly and in large amount sends to Norvos to support Mellario in an appropriate state is used to recompense Targaryens´ host under the table. And the Dornish retinue moving back and forth to Mellario occasionally do drop in at Targaryens.

Varys can suspect, but the suspicions are obviously deniable.

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2 hours ago, Freys Injustice said:

If they could transport and plant a lemon tree in Braavos, surely "they" could find someone to groom the royal boy and girl into a King and Queen after Williem Darry's death. 

Daenerys and Viserys could not stop running because there were the hired knives chasing them. I don't know if anyone else cared about these children and would risk their life for them like Willam Darry did. 

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7 hours ago, Freys Injustice said:

If they could transport and plant a lemon tree in Braavos, surely "they" could find someone to groom the royal boy and girl into a King and Queen after Williem Darry's death. 

The lemon tree probably showed up after they got there as a gift from Dorne. And Willem spirited the kids away at night when most of the garrison on DS was willing to turn over the remaining royals to Bob. It was desperation. There was no time to plan, gather additional babysitters and men at arms. That is why it was an escape and not moving to a new city  

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5 hours ago, Sea Dragon said:

Daenerys and Viserys could not stop running because there were the hired knives chasing them. I don't know if anyone else cared about these children and would risk their life for them like Willam Darry did. 

There were no hired knives chasing them... we know the wine merchant was the first assassin sent by Robert.

Illyrio didn't know about the Viserys wedding pact with Dorne but spent years planning Dany's wedding to Drogo.

Illyrio was raising Young Griff to one day sit the iron throne.

Seems that maybe it was Illyrio who wanted them running...

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9 hours ago, Sea Dragon said:

Daenerys and Viserys could not stop running because there were the hired knives chasing them.

Hired knives that Robert never hired, and Dany never saw, and most probably are imagined by Viserys himself.

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11 hours ago, Freys Injustice said:

If they could transport and plant a lemon tree in Braavos, surely "they" could find someone to groom the royal boy and girl into a King and Queen after Williem Darry's death. 

It's not certain whether the lemon tree was a gift related to the Targaryen children. The sealord's office-palace-and-garden might have had a lemon tree for ages for all we know.

Darry fled with the children, while pretty much the rest of the household wanted to turn Dany and Viserys over to Stannis.

Doran and Oberyn had no control over who is Sealord in Braavos and who was willing to extend protection to the children, even after Darry's death. Syrio once was the first sword of Braavos, meaning he worked for a Sealord once who is no sealord anymore.

They did manage however to travel to Tyrosh and lived in the archon's palace there, since Doran mentions Arianne was meant to journey to Tyrosh and be the archon's cupbearer to meet her fiance Viserys, and the archon's daughter spent a period in Dorne. But Doran dared not stick his neck out, and Viserys grew up entitled and aggressive. If you were an archon, how long would you tolerate a guy like Viserys around your daughters or your son? Add Viserys' paranoia and impuslive rash decisions, and it is just very likely that an impatient and impulsive Viserys decided to find 'an army' somewhere else instead of waiting in Tyrosh.

Edited by sweetsunray

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17 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

There were no hired knives chasing them... we know the wine merchant was the first assassin sent by Robert.

How do we know the wine merchant was "the first"? (Seriously - I don't remember it myself, but there's a lot of detail that I don't remember.) On the other hand, a person will run from imagined pursuers just as hard as from the real thing.

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13 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Hired knives that Robert never hired, and Dany never saw, and most probably are imagined by Viserys himself.

That's how we know that Viserys was a paranoiac, just like Aerys.

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14 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Hired knives that Robert never hired, and Dany never saw, and most probably are imagined by Viserys himself.

What if, now this is a bit of a stretch, but it would be an ironic circumstance, the "hired knives" Viserys thought were coming to kill them, where men sent by loyalists to look after them and the fulfill the very question this post is asking?  But Viserys in his paranoia thought they were assassins coming to kill them, and thus ran from the very people coming to help and protect them?

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8 hours ago, zandru said:

How do we know the wine merchant was "the first"? (Seriously - I don't remember it myself, but there's a lot of detail that I don't remember.) On the other hand, a person will run from imagined pursuers just as hard as from the real thing.

Doesn't Robert say in AGOT that Jon Arryn talked him out of doing it when he was his hand? 

I always thought the hired knives were sent by Ilyrio to herd them into his protection so he could use them in his scheming to putt Aegon on the throne. Obviously they wouldn't be out to kill them but just keep them on the move and make sure they end up with Ilyrio.

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On November 10, 2017 at 6:33 AM, Freys Injustice said:

If they could transport and plant a lemon tree in Braavos, surely "they" could find someone to groom the royal boy and girl into a King and Queen after Williem Darry's death. 

There is, Ashara Dayne for Dany and Leyton and Melora Hightower for Aegon

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On ‎10‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 3:33 PM, Freys Injustice said:

If they could transport and plant a lemon tree in Braavos, surely "they" could find someone to groom the royal boy and girl into a King and Queen after Williem Darry's death. 

Maybe the lemon tree was an apology, and nothing more.

Was there anyone really that interested in their well-being after Willem Darry died?

Not Illyrio, or Varys. I think those two only developed an interest in them when Daenerys got old enough to have children. They intervened to make sure that Viserys didn't marry his sister - the only high-ranking female down-on-his-luck Viserys Targaryen could hope to marry. Dany's children by Viserys might've posed a danger to Aegon, so Illyrio devised a plan to prevent this.

Doran Martell had developed second thoughts regarding the deal he'd struck with Willem Darry. He wanted his daughter to become queen, but not risk Dorne becoming Viserys first, and possibly only, supporter. He never abandoned the plan entirely, as is evidenced by the fact that he never contracted another marriage for Arianne. But neither did he move the plan forward by letting Arianne know of the betrothal.

When Viserys died, Doran still didn't arrange a marriage for her. He seems out of touch with the flow of time - so possibly he pondered helping Viserys and Daenerys after Ser Willem's death, and just didn't get around to it before Viserys died.

The rest of Westeros had mostly forgotten them. As long as they remained in Essos, without any (Westerosi) political backers, they weren't of interest.

So, who are "they"?

2 hours ago, Nezza86 said:

Doesn't Robert say in AGOT that Jon Arryn talked him out of doing it when he was his hand? 

I always thought the hired knives were sent by Ilyrio to herd them into his protection so he could use them in his scheming to putt Aegon on the throne. Obviously they wouldn't be out to kill them but just keep them on the move and make sure they end up with Ilyrio.

Robert could be talked out of hiring knives. Cersei or Tywin, however, might not have been so easy to dissuade.

It didn't require hired knives to make Viserys seek Illyrio's protection. That just required Illyrio's vast wealth, and a promise to support Viserys' cause. And a certain willingness to put up with Viserys' temper.  

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20 hours ago, Tini said:

Robert could be talked out of hiring knives. Cersei or Tywin, however, might not have been so easy to dissuade.

If Tywin had hired assassins to kill the children, they would be dead.

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On 11/11/2017 at 10:55 AM, zandru said:

How do we know the wine merchant was "the first"? (Seriously - I don't remember it myself, but there's a lot of detail that I don't remember.) On the other hand, a person will run from imagined pursuers just as hard as from the real thing.

Quote

 "No, gods be cursed. Some pox-ridden Pentoshi cheesemonger had her brother and her walled up on his estate with pointy-hatted eunuchs all around them, and now he's handed them over to the Dothraki. I should have had them both killed years ago, when it was easy to get at them, but Jon was as bad as you. More fool I, I listened to him."

Eddard II, Game of Thrones

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On 11/10/2017 at 7:59 PM, sweetsunray said:

Hired knives that Robert never hired, and Dany never saw, and most probably are imagined by Viserys himself.

Rumors fed to them by Varys, more like. Keeping them desperate and in need of help.

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They escaped with a handful of people from Dragonstone, I am quite sure it was Ser Willem Darry and like four men-at-arms. They also kidnapped the wet nurse in the proccess to tend to Daenerys. As for the lemon tree, if they were truly living in Braavos, as there are theories they were not really there, it can be a tree from the gardens of the Sealord's Palace.

The only thing I don't get is why Ser Willem Darry could have brokered a betrothal between Viserys and Arianne, since he was only a knight, he had no authority to do such thing, I believe.

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20 minutes ago, Shadow of Asshai said:

They escaped with a handful of people from Dragonstone, I am quite sure it was Ser Willem Darry and like four men-at-arms.

That's the story... and not just "like" four, four "loyal" men no less... oddly specific to just apperantly later betray the kids they risked their lives to rescue... and I still don't understand how the servants missed Rhaella's Crown in their looting spree.

20 minutes ago, Shadow of Asshai said:

They also kidnapped the wet nurse in the proccess to tend to Daenerys. As for the lemon tree, if they were truly living in Braavos, as there are theories they were not really there, it can be a tree from the gardens of the Sealord's Palace.

If it was just a lemon tree then maybe the odd excuse of some citrus garden never mentioned in the series was coincidentally positioned next to the red doored guest house... but it doesn't explain the house with the red door having carved wooden beams and the grass outside Dany remembers running through barefoot.

20 minutes ago, Shadow of Asshai said:

The only thing I don't get is why Ser Willem Darry could have brokered a betrothal between Viserys and Arianne, since he was only a knight, he had no authority to do such thing, I believe.

Ser Willem Darry was acting as guardian for Viserys before he came of age? 

Darry supposedly never left his bed either, which would make it tough in itself... but certainly not impossible. Of course the pact with Dorne, as Dany points out, never mentions her. 

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