Are the Greyjoys the comic relief of the series?

[Jon Fossoway]

5 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

The Brave Companions would fit better for this role. But sure, GRRM has very creep clowns.

Yes. It's my POV also. After the 3^rd or 10^th major problem, they should have been wiped out completely. Like Skane or the cities of the Dothraki Sea. But the Seastone Chair seems evil, pushing anyone near it to evil deeds.

And also preventing any outsider from disrupting things? 

[LynnS]

Well Euron and Victarion are two of the most dangerous characters in the book.  The Kraken figures in Moqorro's visions:

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A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion VIII

"Only their shadows," Moqorro said. "One most of all. A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood."

I've always thought this vision was either Euron or Victarion. but now wonder if this has something to do with Lord Rodrik.  George Martin has alluded to a throne as a tall and twisted thing and this fits with his image of the Iron Throne.   Rodrik also sits on a rather imposing throne as well:

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A Feast for Crows - The Kraken's Daughter

Qarl the Maid had said as much, when the Black Wind was approaching from the sea. He had counted the longships moored beneath her uncle's castle, and his mouth had tightened. "They have not come," he observed, "or not enough of them." He was not wrong, but Asha could not agree with him, out where her crew might hear. She did not doubt their devotion, but even ironborn will hesitate to give their lives for a cause that's plainly lost.

Do I have so few friends as this? Amongst the banners, she saw the silver fish of Botley, the stone tree of the Stonetrees, the black leviathan of Volmark, the nooses of the Myres. The rest were Harlaw scythes. Boremund placed his upon a pale blue field, Hotho's was girdled within an embattled border, and the Knight had quartered his with the gaudy peacock of his mother's House. Even Sigfryd Silverhair showed two scythes counterchanged on a field divided bendwise. Only the Lord Harlaw displayed the silver scythe plain upon a night-black field, as it had flown in the dawn of days: Rodrik, called the Reader, Lord of the Ten Towers, Lord of Harlaw, Harlaw of Harlaw . . . her favorite uncle.

Lord Rodrik's high seat was vacant. Two scythes of beaten silver crossed above it, so huge that even a giant would have difficulty wielding them, but beneath were only empty cushions. Asha was not surprised. The feast was long concluded. Only bones and greasy platters remained upon the trestle tables. The rest was drinking, and her uncle Rodrik had never been partial to the company of quarrelsome drunks.

Perhaps Moqorro's vision of ten long arms is symbolic of the ten towers:

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A Feast for Crows - The Prophet

When he woke the day was bright and windy. Aeron broke his fast on a broth of clams and seaweed cooked above a driftwood fire. No sooner had he finished than the Merlyn descended from his towerhouse with half a dozen guards to seek him out. "The king is dead," the Damphair told him.

"Aye. I had a bird. And now another." The Merlyn was a bald round fleshy man who styled himself "Lord" in the manner of the green lands, and dressed in furs and velvets. "One raven summons me to Pyke, another to Ten Towers. You krakens have too many arms, you pull a man to pieces. What say you, priest? Where should I send my longships?"

Aeron scowled. "Ten Towers, do you say? What kraken calls you there?" Ten Towers was the seat of the Lord of Harlaw.

Lord Rodrik's eyes are fading and he has sent away for a Myrish lens to 'see' better. Is this the meaning of one dark eye?

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A Feast for Crows - The Kraken's Daughter

"Oh, don't look so aggrieved. I have never met a man I didn't provoke, you should know that well enough by now. But enough of me. You are well?"

He shrugged. "Well enough. My eyes grow weaker. I have sent to Myr for a lens to help me read."

 

Perhaps The Reader is the Kraken to keep an eye on as opposed to the more obvious villains.  Which leads to my next question:

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A Feast for Crows - The Reaver

In the yard Victarion came on Gorold Goodbrother and old Drumm, speaking quietly with Rodrik Harlaw. Nute the Barber gave a hoot at the sight of them. "Reader," he called out, "why is your face so long? Your misgivings were for nought. The day is ours, and ours the prize!"

Lord Rodrik's mouth puckered. "These rocks, you mean? All four together wouldn't make Harlaw. We have won some stones and trees and trinkets, and the enmity of House Tyrell."

"The roses?" Nute laughed. "What rose can harm the krakens of the deep? We have taken their shields from them, and smashed them all to pieces. Who will protect them now?"

Not the Tyrell Rose but the Rose of Winterfell perhaps?

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A Game of Thrones - Eddard I

"I was with her when she died," Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father." He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it. "I bring her flowers when I can," he said. "Lyanna was … fond of flowers."

 

[Serafina]

As a Greyjoy fan I feel attacked by this topic.

More seriously :

9 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

On the contrary, I've found that the Greyjoys are often a source of tragedy. In some respects, they're a much less pathetic, more entertaining version of the Freys -- highly dysfunctional, but they get things done. 

Even though the Iron Islands' refusal to reform has led to their destitution, the crown didn't do anything to help bring them into the realm over the course of three-hundred years. No marriages with Ironborn families, no Ironborn council members, essentially no interest in the well-being of the Ironborn to begin with. The Ironborn may be difficult to rein in, but the Targaryens and other paramount families wasted every opportunity they had to improve relations between them and the mainland. 

I agree the Greyjoys are no comic relief but I also think they have demonstrated they have little interest in integrating Westerosi high-born networks. They are pirates and they don't care about marital strategies.

[LynnS]

14 minutes ago, Serafina said:

As a Greyjoy fan I feel attacked by this topic.

More seriously :

I agree the Greyjoys are no comic relief but I also think they have demonstrated they have little interest in integrating Westerosi high-born networks. They are pirates and they don't care about marital strategies.

I think the image of Victarion's warhelm is hilarious.  The idea of wearing a squid on your head cracks me up.  Euron and Victarion are so damn dark; perhaps Martin is injecting a little humour.  Victarion is horrific and Euron is worse, far worse than Ramsey will ever be.   I didn't think that was possible. 

[Faera]

13 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

On the contrary, I've found that the Greyjoys are often a source of tragedy. In some respects, they're a much less pathetic, more entertaining version of the Freys -- highly dysfunctional, but they get things done. 

Even though the Iron Islands' refusal to reform has led to their destitution, the crown didn't do anything to help bring them into the realm over the course of three-hundred years. No marriages with Ironborn families, no Ironborn council members, essentially no interest in the well-being of the Ironborn to begin with. The Ironborn may be difficult to rein in, but the Targaryens and other paramount families wasted every opportunity they had to improve relations between them and the mainland. 

 

Like others have already said, this is an excellent point and post.

Just reading it makes me feel that the death of Balon, the following Kingsmoot with all the different families and the trials and tribulations of the Greyjoys could be the plot of some Shakespearian tragedy (or tragicomedy, if you want! ). With all your said in mind, why wouldn't the Ironborn want to be independent of the Seven Kingdoms?

[AlaskanSandman]

Based on my Garth thread and the Grey King and Durran being his children. I would place the Ironborn and Hightowers as Walrus men and of The Grey King's line. They were also both ancient seafarers. 

That being the case. 

Euron wants to raise the Great Other it sounds like while Lord Hightower is in his tower trying to summons the Deep Ones. 

I would venture Euron and the Ironborn are tied to the Others and not comic relief.

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Based on my Garth thread and the Grey King and Durran being his children. I would place the Ironborn and Hightowers as Walrus men and of The Grey King's line. They were also both ancient seafarers. 

That being the case. 

Euron wants to raise the Great Other it sounds like while Lord Hightower is in his tower trying to summons the Deep Ones. 

I would venture Euron and the Ironborn are tied to the Others and not comic relief.

Euron could certainly provide the ships for the dead to pass beyond the Wall if he was so inclined.  Comic relief might be too broad a term.  Victarion though is a caricature of some comic book villain.

[Annalee]

On 11/11/2017 at 8:12 AM, Orphalesion said:

Comic relief is supposed to be entertaining, not boring and a waste of space.

So; nope.

That's correct.  Walder Frey is the comic relief of the series.  The man is quite a character and always entertaining. 

[AlaskanSandman]

4 hours ago, LynnS said:

Euron could certainly provide the ships for the dead to pass beyond the Wall if he was so inclined.  Comic relief might be too broad a term.  Victarion though is a caricature of some comic book villain.

You could look it that way  I see Euron as the dark manifestation of Kthulu the Drowned God who has an Octopus Head, human scaled body and wings of a bat or dragon. Essentially a sea sphinx like our Harpy/Manitcore set and the Valyrian and Citidel Sphinxes. All showing our ancient skinchanging family. 

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

The Iron Born chapters are awesome, although I must admit Aeron Greyjoy's chapters were kind of boring, save for the Forsaken chapter, that was one of the best chapters I ever read.

[LynnS]

18 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

You could look it that way  I see Euron as the dark manifestation of Kthulu the Drowned God who has an Octopus Head, human scaled body and wings of a bat or dragon. Essentially a sea sphinx like our Harpy/Manitcore set and the Valyrian and Citidel Sphinxes. All showing our ancient skinchanging family. 

The sphinx with a lion's body, dragon wings and tail of a scorpion would fit Cersei's character.

As for Euron as a manifestation of Kthulu, I can go with it. 

Spoiler

 

Although Aeron's vision of him sitting the iron throne while tentacles writhe beneath his face in the Foresaken chapter; reminds me that Bran has a glimpse of weirwood roots writhing like giant grave worms.  This seems to be one of those time exposure visions, not unlike Jon's vision of weir-Bran growing from a sapling to a tree before his eyes.  I suspect the same time lapse with Aeron's vision of Euron except that the tentacles are weirwood roots and the tree has been a given Euron's face.

Dany has a similar vision with Pyat-Pree in the House of Undying when what appears to be Pryat shows up in an attempt to lure her from the path she is supposed to take.  Can this be Pyat who warned her never to take anything but the right-hand door or something that is wearing Pyat's face? 

There is another more subtle hint of this face-changing or borrowing when Arya is tested by the kindly old man who adopts a face that is very close to Bloodraven's as Bran sees him.

Ned dreams of Robert and underneath Robert's face is Littlefinger's face and I'm reminded of Jaqen changing his face before Ayra's eyes and of the knife that Jaqen produces as small as his little finger.

This kind of face-changing points to one entity, the one that the FM refer to as the many faced god. Is this the same as the god of many faces or a reverse mirror image?

How do we know the difference between one or the other? What of Tyrion's two-headed dream where one head slaughters and the other weeps?

 

       

[LynnS]

18 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

You could look it that way  I see Euron as the dark manifestation of Kthulu the Drowned God who has an Octopus Head, human scaled body and wings of a bat or dragon. Essentially a sea sphinx like our Harpy/Manitcore set and the Valyrian and Citidel Sphinxes. All showing our ancient skinchanging family. 

An additional comment on my post above.  Is there a difference between the many-faced god and the old gods:

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A Feast for Crows - Arya II

Needle was Robb and Bran and Rickon, her mother and her father, even Sansa. Needle was Winterfell's grey walls, and the laughter of its people. Needle was the summer snows, Old Nan's stories, the heart tree with its red leaves and scary face, the warm earthy smell of the glass gardens, the sound of the north wind rattling the shutters of her room. Needle was Jon Snow's smile. He used to mess my hair and call me "little sister," she remembered, and suddenly there were tears in her eyes.

Polliver had stolen the sword from her when the Mountain's men took her captive, but when she and the Hound walked into the inn at the crossroads, there it was. The gods wanted me to have it. Not the Seven, nor Him of Many Faces, but her father's gods, the old gods of the north. The Many-Faced God can have the rest, she thought, but he can't have this.

Arya seems to think that there is a difference between him of Many Faces or the Many-Faced God and her father's gods, the old gods of the north.  Arya's POV is the only POV that references the Many-Faced God.  There is no mention of him of Many-Faces in any other pov. 

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A Game of Thrones - Catelyn I

For her sake, Ned had built a small sept where she might sing to the seven faces of god, but the blood of the First Men still flowed in the veins of the Starks, and his own gods were the old ones, the nameless, faceless gods of the greenwood they shared with the vanished children of the forest.

What is the distinction between the god that uses many faces and the old gods of the cotf who are faceless?  The weirwood trees were given faces so they could witness and record the world around them.  Him of many-faces uses more than one face.  Do the origins of the Many-Faced God include a conflict with Him of Fire? 

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Arya IX

"Swear it," Arya said. "Swear it by the gods."

"By all the gods of sea and air, and even him of fire, I swear it." He placed a hand in the mouth of the weirwood. "By the seven new gods and the old gods beyond count, I swear it."

 

 

[The Fattest Leech]

On 11/11/2017 at 5:50 AM, Freys Injustice said:

Are the Greyjoys the closet we get to a comic relief of the series? We get it, Iron islanders, pirates, vikings, explorers, isolated, uninhabitable, inhospitable environment and hate the Westerosi main folk.

heh Balon's return to the 'Old Ways'

If the constant raping and pillaging done to another kingdom by a another kingdom, it would be a act of war.

How much longer would you tolerate it if the next door neighbor kept taking your delivery boxes?

You mean, are they the Squidbillies of Westeros? Probably, but there are some good peanuts in that hair-doo stand. Asha is poised to rise above the backwards IB traditions, as is Theon on his redemption arc (even though his final outcome is a little questionable), and there are others on the other islands that aren't so bad. Roderick the reader ain't so bad.

Euron has been set up as one of GRRM's *classic* bad guy types... and that is scary. Victarion, old volcano hand, he is already described by GRRM as "dumb as a stump". Vic has a limited time purpose and it is going to be awesome.

[LynnS]

21 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

You mean, are they the Squidbillies of Westeros? Probably, but there are some good peanuts in that hair-doo stand. Asha is poised to rise above the backwards IB traditions, as is Theon on his redemption arc (even though his final outcome is a little questionable), and there are others on the other islands that aren't so bad. Roderick the reader ain't so bad.

Euron has been set up as one of GRRM's *classic* bad guy types... and that is scary. Victarion, old volcano hand, he is already described by GRRM as "dumb as a stump". Vic has a limited time purpose and it is going to be awesome.

LOL!

[AlaskanSandman]

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

An additional comment on my post above.  Is there a difference between the many-faced god and the old gods:

Arya seems to think that there is a difference between him of Many Faces or the Many-Faced God and her father's gods, the old gods of the north.  Arya's POV is the only POV that references the Many-Faced God.  There is no mention of him of Many-Faces in any other pov. 

 

 

What is the distinction between the god that uses many faces and the old gods of the cotf who are faceless?  The weirwood trees were given faces so they could witness and record the world around them.  Him of many-faces uses more than one face.  Do the origins of the Many-Faced God include a conflict with Him of Fire? 

 

Agreed 

 

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

You mean, are they the Squidbillies of Westeros? Probably, but there are some good peanuts in that hair-doo stand. Asha is poised to rise above the backwards IB traditions, as is Theon on his redemption arc (even though his final outcome is a little questionable), and there are others on the other islands that aren't so bad. Roderick the reader ain't so bad.

Euron has been set up as one of GRRM's *classic* bad guy types... and that is scary. Victarion, old volcano hand, he is already described by GRRM as "dumb as a stump". Vic has a limited time purpose and it is going to be awesome.

Lol agreed, but as in all Martins works. No side is usually purely evil or good and have a lil of both on each side of the fence