Annalee

All the main characters will die.

53 posts in this topic

The more I read of George Martin's short stories the more depressed I get.  I am now convinced that all of the main characters will die and the only ones left alive at the end are the secondary characters.  This is a shocking revelation to most of you and many will doubt this.  I will advice you to read his short stories and pay particular attention to the fates of the protagonists.  I am also of the belief that some of the plot lines will end in a state of ambiguity.  By that I mean some of the plot lines will not have a resolution when the story reaches its end. 

George Martin is an elderly man and he may feel the need to have his main characters die with him.  At least he doesn't want them to live on past his own time.  This is sad to his readers and it does not make good reasoning to me but he is harsh and cynical.  Many of his characters possess those same traits but we need to remember that there are many things about Mr. Martin that we do not know about.  I think there is a little of him in the leading characters like Daenerys Targaryen and Havilland Tuf.  George Martin would love to prescribe solutions to world problems if he could.  Tyrion carries his cynicism and vulnerability in the pages. Jorah Mormont has his pragmatic and practical side that allows him to see through the fog of B.S. that otherwise blind the more idealistic characters.  Some of his fans believe him a hippie but this is one hippie who isn't just about spreading love.  He's not an advocate of peace at all costs.  There is love in his stories but it's rarely the ideal love like we think of.  It's rarely love between two unmarried people who deeply love one another, both virgins, get married, have sex, and raise a family.  A George Martin romance will always have a fly in the soup. 

George said in an interview that the end will not be an apocalypse but I am of the belief that it will not be an improvement over the current situation.  I know many readers and fans are expecting peace, prosperity, economic boom, democracy, and the continuation of the reigns of the Targaryens, Starks, Lannisters, and Tyrells over their lands.  I am sad to say this.  I no longer believe that will be the ending.  The land of Westeros will barely survive and expect the classic strongholds like the Red Keep, Casterly, Eyrie, Winterfell, and Highgarden to fall.  It may be as some fans on this forum are predicting, the humans will lose the war and the survivors will have to migrate east by boat or land bridge.  

The secondary and lower characters that I believe will survive are:  Samwell, Jorah, Marwyn, Little Finger, Craster's boy, Ned Dayne, Varys, Alliser Thorne, Tristane, Rickon, Greyworm, Robert Arryn, Meera.  A few other minor characters will survive.  Many Freys will survive and a few of the Tyrells just because of their numbers. 

The Hightowers have a knack for going with the flow.  They don't swim against the power current.  They have shown over many centuries that they know how to accept and adapt to change.  I think they will survive.  With the exception of the brief mental break downwhen Otto tried to steal the throne this family has shown wisdom and flexibility.  The Freys who inherit Walder's knack for survival and willingness to swim with the current will serve them well.  The Freys and the Hightowers are surviving but not because they're politically savvy.  They know who they can dump on and who they can't.  This is a skill that the Starks never figured out and never will.  Someone like Alliser Thorne is a survivor and I think he will live through the end.  Lastly, the screwups are not going to make it because our author is harsh to people who screw up (Catelyn, Robb, Jon, Oberyn, Robert).  When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die.  Cersei is mucking up royally and that's not increasing her chances of survival.  One more thing and this is piling on the bad news, I know.  Some will have fates worse than death.  The others make zombies so it is only safe to assume that some of our main characters will get caught and transformed to wights.

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It will be bittersweet with lots of tears.  I think Sansa and Aegon will survive along with Tyrion and Brienne.  Brienne will write Jaime's deeds in the White Book, Tyrion will see to it that the realm is put to rights with Aegon on the throne and Sansa will finally marry her prince of dragonflies.  Tyrion will write the song of ice and fire and record the history and the sacrifices of the last heroes.    

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3 minutes ago, LynnS said:

It will be bittersweet with lots of tears.  I think Sansa and Aegon will survive along with Tyrion and Brienne.  Brienne will write Jaime's deeds in the White Book, Tyrion will see to it that the realm is put to rights with Aegon on the throne and Sansa will finally marry her prince of dragonflies.  Tyrion will write the song of ice and fire and record the history and the sacrifices of the last heroes.    

It will make me sick to my stomach if Sansa survives.  Thankfullly, I don't think she will.  She is one of the main characters.  Brienne may. 

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20 minutes ago, Annalee said:

It will make me sick to my stomach if Sansa survives.  Thankfullly, I don't think she will.  She is one of the main characters.  Brienne may. 

LOL!  Sansa will survive.  Her character is changing dramatically and she will be a completely different character by the end.  The wolves will survive and perhaps Bran, Arya and Jon in a second life.  Dany will not, she is the last dragon.

Edited by LynnS

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38 minutes ago, Annalee said:

I will advice you to read his short stories and pay particular attention to the fates of the protagonists.

Which short stories specifically?

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35 minutes ago, Annalee said:

The more I read of George Martin's short stories the more depressed I get.  I am now convinced that all of the main characters will die and the only ones left alive at the end are the secondary characters.  This is a shocking revelation to most of you and many will doubt this.  I will advice you to read his short stories and pay particular attention to the fates of the protagonists.

On the other hand, I can't shake the impression that "A Song of Ice And Fire" is not a short story. I don't know why, but it looks to me like something different.

(BTW, last time I checked, Haviland Tuf was alive and well).

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25 minutes ago, Annalee said:

The more I read of George Martin's short stories the more depressed I get.  I am now convinced that all of the main characters will die and the only ones left alive at the end are the secondary characters.  This is a shocking revelation to most of you and many will doubt this.  I will advice you to read his short stories and pay particular attention to the fates of the protagonists.  I am also of the belief that some of the plot lines will end in a state of ambiguity.  By that I mean some of the plot lines will not have a resolution when the story reaches its end. 

George Martin is an elderly man and he may feel the need to have his main characters die with him.  At least he doesn't want them to live on past his own time.  This is sad to his readers and it does not make good reasoning to me but he is harsh and cynical.  Many of his characters possess those same traits but we need to remember that there are many things about Mr. Martin that we do not know about.  I think there is a little of him in the leading characters like Daenerys Targaryen and Havilland Tuf.  George Martin would love to prescribe solutions to world problems if he could.  Tyrion carries his cynicism and vulnerability in the pages. Jorah Mormont has his pragmatic and practical side that allows him to see through the fog of B.S. that otherwise blind the more idealistic characters.  Some of his fans believe him a hippie but this is one hippie who isn't just about spreading love.  He's not an advocate of peace at all costs.  There is love in his stories but it's rarely the ideal love like we think of.  It's rarely love between two unmarried people who deeply love one another, both virgins, get married, have sex, and raise a family.  A George Martin romance will always have a fly in the soup. 

George said in an interview that the end will not be an apocalypse but I am of the belief that it will not be an improvement over the current situation.  I know many readers and fans are expecting peace, prosperity, economic boom, democracy, and the continuation of the reigns of the Targaryens, Starks, Lannisters, and Tyrells over their lands.  I am sad to say this.  I no longer believe that will be the ending.  The land of Westeros will barely survive and expect the classic strongholds like the Red Keep, Casterly, Eyrie, Winterfell, and Highgarden to fall.  It may be as some fans on this forum are predicting, the humans will lose the war and the survivors will have to migrate east by boat or land bridge.  

The secondary and lower characters that I believe will survive are:  Samwell, Jorah, Marwyn, Little Finger, Craster's boy, Ned Dayne, Varys, Alliser Thorne, Tristane, Rickon, Greyworm, Robert Arryn, Meera.  A few other minor characters will survive.  Many Freys will survive and a few of the Tyrells just because of their numbers. 

The Hightowers have a knack for going with the flow.  They don't swim against the power current.  They have shown over many centuries that they know how to accept and adapt to change.  I think they will survive.  With the exception of the brief mental break downwhen Otto tried to steal the throne this family has shown wisdom and flexibility.  The Freys who inherit Walder's knack for survival and willingness to swim with the current will serve them well.  The Freys and the Hightowers are surviving but not because they're politically savvy.  They know who they can dump on and who they can't.  This is a skill that the Starks never figured out and never will.  Someone like Alliser Thorne is a survivor and I think he will live through the end.  Lastly, the screwups are not going to make it because our author is harsh to people who screw up (Catelyn, Robb, Jon, Oberyn, Robert).  When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die.  Cersei is mucking up royally and that's not increasing her chances of survival.  One more thing and this is piling on the bad news, I know.  Some will have fates worse than death.  The others make zombies so it is only safe to assume that some of our main characters will get caught and transformed to wights.

I think your view of the ending might be a little too bitter. While I doubt feudalism will survive to Spring, I definitely don't agree that all the principle characters will die. Kill too many of the principal characters and there is no catharsis - only carnage.
 

26 minutes ago, LynnS said:

It will be bittersweet with lots of tears.  I think Sansa and Aegon will survive along with Tyrion and Brienne.  Brienne will write Jaime's deeds in the White Book, Tyrion will see to it that the realm is put to rights with Aegon on the throne and Sansa will finally marry her prince of dragonflies.  Tyrion will write the song of ice and fire and record the history and the sacrifices of the last heroes.    

I don't see Aegon being anything other than a "distraction" character nor do I see Tyrion putting the world to rights either, personally.

 

23 minutes ago, Annalee said:

It will make me sick to my stomach if Sansa survives.  Thankfullly, I don't think she will.  She is one of the main characters.  Brienne may. 

Wow, what do you have against Sansa?

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1 hour ago, Annalee said:

The more I read of George Martin's short stories the more depressed I get.  I am now convinced that all of the main characters will die and the only ones left alive at the end are the secondary characters.  This is a shocking revelation to most of you and many will doubt this.  I will advice you to read his short stories and pay particular attention to the fates of the protagonists.  I am also of the belief that some of the plot lines will end in a state of ambiguity.  By that I mean some of the plot lines will not have a resolution when the story reaches its end. 

George Martin is an elderly man and he may feel the need to have his main characters die with him.  At least he doesn't want them to live on past his own time.  This is sad to his readers and it does not make good reasoning to me but he is harsh and cynical.  Many of his characters possess those same traits but we need to remember that there are many things about Mr. Martin that we do not know about.  I think there is a little of him in the leading characters like Daenerys Targaryen and Havilland Tuf.  George Martin would love to prescribe solutions to world problems if he could.  Tyrion carries his cynicism and vulnerability in the pages. Jorah Mormont has his pragmatic and practical side that allows him to see through the fog of B.S. that otherwise blind the more idealistic characters.  Some of his fans believe him a hippie but this is one hippie who isn't just about spreading love.  He's not an advocate of peace at all costs.  There is love in his stories but it's rarely the ideal love like we think of.  It's rarely love between two unmarried people who deeply love one another, both virgins, get married, have sex, and raise a family.  A George Martin romance will always have a fly in the soup. 

George said in an interview that the end will not be an apocalypse but I am of the belief that it will not be an improvement over the current situation.  I know many readers and fans are expecting peace, prosperity, economic boom, democracy, and the continuation of the reigns of the Targaryens, Starks, Lannisters, and Tyrells over their lands.  I am sad to say this.  I no longer believe that will be the ending. 

Take heart -- there will be no ending.  I agree that GRRM is 'harsh and cynical' -- but he's also a romantic and an egotist, and for these reasons he won't be able to bear ending anything.  We will be left with loose ends blowing in the wind.  Words are wind!  :cheers:

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1 hour ago, Annalee said:

The more I read of George Martin's short stories the more depressed I get.  I am now convinced that all of the main characters will die and the only ones left alive at the end are the secondary characters.  This is a shocking revelation to most of you and many will doubt this.  I will advice you to read his short stories and pay particular attention to the fates of the protagonists.  I am also of the belief that some of the plot lines will end in a state of ambiguity.  By that I mean some of the plot lines will not have a resolution when the story reaches its end. 

I would be really surprised if ALL the main characters died by the end. I see Bran, Sansa, Arya and Tyrion surviving. I can see some plot lines not explained explicitly, like maybe what happens in the free cities after Dany leaves, but not any major ones.

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1 hour ago, Annalee said:

The more I read of George Martin's short stories the more depressed I get. 

I am a huge fan of all of GRRM's work. I love talking about all of his old stuff. I re-read and re-listen to those stories daily. I wouldn't get depressed, but rather understand how he works. This is why I shake my head and chuckle when people think just because a character is their favorite, his favorite, his wife's favorite, that it means that character will not die... well, nope.

But to be fair, it is we readers that are so used to the main character making it all the way through. But this brings me to a point you made below. And I wonder about some of the readers who do not understand character development as well.

 

Quote

 

I am now convinced that all of the main characters will die and the only ones left alive at the end are the secondary characters. 

I have made this point time and time again when other posters make the claim that a character is not "main" enough, that they are just too secondary, and that means they are not important or will not make it. AHahhahahaaa! These posters clearly have not read any completed stories of GRRM to see how he works and to witness GRRM using his own themes over and over.

Secondary characters become "heroes" often.

Quote

This is a shocking revelation to most of you and many will doubt this. 

I trust you thoroughly on this ;)

Quote

By that I mean some of the plot lines will not have a resolution when the story reaches its end.

This is quite possible based on a few short story endings, and I do expect this to an extent, however, with the ASOAIF series, he has a ton-ton-ton more literary "room" to tell his stories so we may be in for a few surprises.

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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36 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Take heart -- there will be no ending.  I agree that GRRM is 'harsh and cynical' -- but he's also a romantic and an egotist, and for these reasons he won't be able to bear ending anything.  We will be left with loose ends blowing in the wind.  Words are wind!  :cheers:

Argh, I am hoping there will be an ending. Delayed as it may be.

Tune in next year to I am not the man you think I am and I am not the man I thought I was.

Then tune in in 2019 to see the finale.

:cheers:

 

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Just now, Clegane'sPup said:

Argh, I am hoping there will be an ending. Delayed as it may be.

Tune in next year to I am not the man you think I am and I am not the man I thought I was.

Then tune in in 2019 to see the finale.

:cheers:

 

Ha ha -- hi Puppy!  It's called 'reverse psychology'...;)

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1 hour ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

On the other hand, I can't shake the impression that "A Song of Ice And Fire" is not a short story. I don't know why, but it looks to me like something different.

(BTW, last time I checked, Haviland Tuf was alive and well).

That series was never completed, though... :leaving:

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51 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Take heart -- there will be no ending.  I agree that GRRM is 'harsh and cynical' -- but he's also a romantic and an egotist, and for these reasons he won't be able to bear ending anything.  We will be left with loose ends blowing in the wind.  Words are wind!  :cheers:

LOL!  I'm only counting on one more sometime next year.... maybe.

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8 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

That series was never completed, though... :leaving:

I don't know what or who a Haviland Tuf is but I'm thinking :idea:the ASOIAF just may meet that criteria. :leaving:

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7 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I don't know what or who a Haviland Tuf is but I'm thinking :idea:the ASOIAF just may meet that criteria. :leaving:

I could give you some quotes that will make you so sad that you might turn to the bottle, or cheesecake, or special brownies, etc... but I won't :devil:

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You don't really have to read all the short stories to reach the conclusion that a lot of main characters should - and will - die. The stakes get higher and higher as the series progresses. The Red Wedding should be a minor affair compared to the Second Dance and the bloodletting and betrayals throughout that conflict, and in light of the grand finale - the War for Dawn - everything in known Westerosi history should pale.

Some (POV) characters might survive, but expect such survivors to be characters like Davos, Brienne, Asha, Samwell - the actual good guys.

The core group - Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Bran, Arya, Sansa - could all die. Not necessarily all of them, but certainly the majority. And one also expects those (POV) characters with a checkered past - Jaime, Theon, Sandor, Catelyn, Melisandre, Stannis, Jon Connington, etc. to close their eyes for good and all. Not to mention all the 'clear villains', whoever one might count among them (Qyburn, Ser Robert Strong, Ramsay, Roose, at least Walder and Lothar Frey, Littlefinger, Cersei, etc.

This isn't a fairy-tale, nor a story where the survivors are going to live happily ever after. Spring will return in the end, but spring isn't paradise. Spring is just normality. And life sucks in that world under normal circumstances. It is just somewhat better than when ice demons are creating an unnatural winter to destroy all life.

Perhaps we'll get a vision (or a dream) of a better life at the end. Perhaps not. But that's all we can hope for. But most/all of the heroes will pay with their lives for that hope. That's what they are there for. They are not there to triumph and defeat evil and live a happy life. Again, that's not a fairy-tale. And it is definitely not 'The Lord of the Rings'.

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9 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I could give you some quotes that will make you so sad that you might turn to the bottle, or cheesecake, or special brownies, etc... but I won't :devil:

Booze, cheese and chocolate OMG  please give me the excuse. :wub:

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9 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

You don't really have to read all the short stories to reach the conclusion that a lot of main characters should - and will - die.

Who dies and who lives is not my concern. I merely want an ending. Selfish as that may be. Whatever ending Martin comes to with his never-ending story is okay with me. :devil:

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1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Booze, cheese and chocolate OMG  please give me the excuse. :wub:

Check your inbox.

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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