Annalee

All the main characters will die.

53 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Knekse said:

...SNIP...

Stop that.  Please just post using normal sized fonts.  It's much easier to read that way.

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9 hours ago, White Ravens said:

Stop that.  Please just post using normal sized fonts.  It's much easier to read that way.

St0P tHaT. PlEaSe JuSt pOsT UsInG NoRmAL sIzEd fOnTs. iT's mUcH eAsIeR To ReAd ThAt WaY

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16 hours ago, LynnS said:

I'm not so sure about Sam. Whatever he learns about the Watch, the Wall, the Others or the prophecy and his physical description as moon-faced like Othor;  his own dream of feasting with his dead brothers from the Watch; I think foretells a different ending. 

For precision, the moon-faced Sam occurs only in a special context = when his character is "described" as a woman and Jon's partner, the "miss piggy". The chapter of his first arrival (Jon IV AGOT) is very explicit about the symbolism; there is also the chapter of Jon's desertion where Sam appears like a she-bear sister (the moon face symbolizes here the feminine part). After the killing of the Other, he is the "Slayer" and no more Piggy, he is no more described as moon-faced. Also "moon-faced" comes from Jon's point of view, so I tend to think that the "moon" is essentially reliated to him - the "bastard prince" - and tells us more about Jon than about Sam ^^

For the feast, I don't know what to think : it's the only feast's dream with a happy feeling (all the others are horrific) and all the brothers aren't yet dead : it is a mix of both, living and dead. So it could foreshadow their death including Sam's; or Sam honoring (he presides the feast) the memories of his dead brothers whom soul rest in peace (in contrast with the angry and suffering ghosts in Winterfell); or something else ?

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19 hours ago, Knekse said:

[whole lotta huge stuff]

That's 'arc', not 'arch.'

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19 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

If they all die ... what’s the point of emotionally attaching yourself to the story? 

Because of what they did and who they were when they "lived"? (recalling these are, in fact, fictional characters.) Valar morghulis - intellectually, we all know that even if a character makes it to the final page of the books intact, the normal human mortality rate is still 100%.

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On 11/12/2017 at 7:37 PM, Lord Varys said:

You don't really have to read all the short stories to reach the conclusion that a lot of main characters should - and will - die. The stakes get higher and higher as the series progresses. The Red Wedding should be a minor affair compared to the Second Dance and the bloodletting and betrayals throughout that conflict, and in light of the grand finale - the War for Dawn - everything in known Westerosi history should pale.

Some (POV) characters might survive, but expect such survivors to be characters like Davos, Brienne, Asha, Samwell - the actual good guys.

The core group - Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Bran, Arya, Sansa - could all die. Not necessarily all of them, but certainly the majority. And one also expects those (POV) characters with a checkered past - Jaime, Theon, Sandor, Catelyn, Melisandre, Stannis, Jon Connington, etc. to close their eyes for good and all. Not to mention all the 'clear villains', whoever one might count among them (Qyburn, Ser Robert Strong, Ramsay, Roose, at least Walder and Lothar Frey, Littlefinger, Cersei, etc.

This isn't a fairy-tale, nor a story where the survivors are going to live happily ever after. Spring will return in the end, but spring isn't paradise. Spring is just normality. And life sucks in that world under normal circumstances. It is just somewhat better than when ice demons are creating an unnatural winter to destroy all life.

Perhaps we'll get a vision (or a dream) of a better life at the end. Perhaps not. But that's all we can hope for. But most/all of the heroes will pay with their lives for that hope. That's what they are there for. They are not there to triumph and defeat evil and live a happy life. Again, that's not a fairy-tale. And it is definitely not 'The Lord of the Rings'.

This is also not a feel-good story where the bad gets their just desserts.  Being good or being bad has no effect on the person's survival percentages.  GM can take his characters in any direction he chooses.  That said, the story will have to make sense and the conclusion will have logic to it.  To use an example, Samwell is not going to sit on the iron throne and rule because it's not in him.  He doesn't have the strength and he would make a big mess of things. 

The historical long night lasted for decades.  Should this one follow the pattern there will be no kingdom as we know it.  The survivors will be few and the ones who do survive are the ones smart enough to migrate to the warmer climates early.  I'm not doubting that the main characters will die.  It will make me very sad and keep me from buying the last book and any further SOIAF novels or novellas that come after.  I don't think it's good plot to kill off all the main characters. 

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23 hours ago, LynnS said:

Yes, it's difficult to hang on for so long.  I still think WoW stands a chance of completion some time next year.  I'm not quite ready to give up on Martin yet.    

I'm without but I have gone from

Carefully Optimistic for WOW and Holding out hope for ADOS to Holding out hope for WOW and very skeptical about TWOW

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9 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

I'm without but I have gone from

Carefully Optimistic for WOW and Holding out hope for ADOS to Holding out hope for WOW and very skeptical about TWOW

LOL.  I've gone from believing whatever was promised with high anticipation and deep disappointment to wishful thinking that I will get WoW before I get too old to care anymore.  

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On 11/12/2017 at 2:14 PM, Annalee said:

This is a shocking revelation to most of you and many will doubt this.

This hardly rises to the level of "revelation". If you had described it as "shocking my-own-personal-opinion", then that would be much more accurate. Even if not all that shocking.

More seriously, even if your foreboding comes true and all the main characters are killed by the end of the saga, that would be pretty frickin' awesome. I'm sure GRRM will do it justice. Bring it on, George!

 

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4 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

This is also not a feel-good story where the bad gets their just desserts.  Being good or being bad has no effect on the person's survival percentages.  GM can take his characters in any direction he chooses. 

He can, but it is pretty clear that he is going to allow the heroes to get their revenge and kill their enemies in the process of the story. There is a reason why we see characters like Lord Wyman, Catelyn, and others kill their decent shares of Freys. And the chances are astronomically high that characters like Ser Robert Strong, Ramsay, Roose, Walder, Littlefinger, Euron, etc. will get what they deserve in the end.

Still, that doesn't mean that all the heroes - especially not the heroic heroes who are likely going to rush into battle - will survive the series.

4 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

The historical long night lasted for decades.  Should this one follow the pattern there will be no kingdom as we know it.  The survivors will be few and the ones who do survive are the ones smart enough to migrate to the warmer climates early.  I'm not doubting that the main characters will die.  It will make me very sad and keep me from buying the last book and any further SOIAF novels or novellas that come after.  I don't think it's good plot to kill off all the main characters. 

He isn't going to kill all the main characters. But he'll kill a decent share of them. And it is not necessarily a sad ending if all the core characters died at different points in the story. They could leave children, for instance. Or they could die for a good cause. They could even save the entire world.

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On 11/13/2017 at 2:43 AM, Ser Maverick said:

I'm not much of a regular on these forums, so I can't speak for this community, but in my experience most people seem to expect a generic fantasy ending (r+l=j, targaryen restoration, good guys beat white walkers, the whole deal) albeit with a lot of character deaths/destruction, so nothing you've said is really groundbreaking honestly. I think that whatever the ending is that George is planning, it will be very dark but in more of a cerebral way than a bloodbath way. Major character deaths aren't even something to hype up at this point in the series and I think what he's planning will be philosophical or have some type of commentary to read into.

In terms of character deaths though, I basically agree with your prediction, although I guarantee some POVs are going to make it (Sansa is definitely going to survive lol), or how else will we know what happened? I don't think the logic of who survives will have anything to do with morality like a lot of people might expect, such as Cersei or Littlefinger dying because they're bad and they just have to. I could easily see them making it along with some of the more heroic characters.

Yes. :)

Also, consider, the Stark children are introduced immediately in the books, with plenty of symbolism and such. They are the only important characters in the books. They might not all survive (considering that Ned and Robb and Catylen haven't... and Jon is dead at the moment)... The Lannisters are antagonists, so no need for them to survive (RIP Tyrion and Jamie if needed - I presume Cercei will die in some dramatic way). Dany... She must die, imo, because her dragons tend to predate on her subjects and on their herds - not a good ruling model for her messianic role of supporting the little folk and all - as she and the dragons are "one".

Blah, blah, blah...

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19 hours ago, zandru said:

That's 'arc', not 'arch.'

Are you seriously going to correct people's grammar on this site? Don't you have anything better to do?

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