Davos the Dragonslayer

Targaryen Line of succession

61 posts in this topic

 

I tried to create Targaryen Line of succession. Is this true?

  • Aegon (if he is real)
  • Jon Snow (maybe legitimized bastard)
  • Daenerys (female line)
  • Tyrion (bastard)
  • Robert's 16 bastards
  • Shrieen Baratheon (female line)
  • Unknown Brightflame (male line)
  • Unknown Blackfyre (female line and legitimized bastard)
  • Ben Plumm (female line)
  • Arianne/Trystane of House Martell (female line)
  • Sand Snakes (bastards and female line)
  • Rennifer Longwaters (bastard and female line)
  • Brienne of Tarth (female line)
Edited by Davos the Dragonslayer

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13 minutes ago, Davos the Dragonslayer said:
  • Tyrion (bastard)

If he is a Targaryen bastard,

The situation with Aegon, Jon and Daenerys is very ambiguous, since we do not know all of the details (whether Aeris was purposefully passing over Rhaegar's line in favour of his second son, whether that would still be relevant, what Jon's status is, whether the fact that Daenerys has bonded Dragons will have any influence on the decision, what influence Daenery's status as a woman has etc.)

In any case, however, the Targaryen line of succession doesn't really matter anymore. Their title was stripped off of them and now it's a free for all for the three surviving ones to see how manages to grab hold of it. The Throne will be taken by Right of Conquest and the de jure justifications will be decided on/made up/worded nicely by advisors and ministers.

All three gonna have a claim and it depends on who gets to push theirs successfully.

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Tyrion isn't a Targaryen sorry, as for Robert's bastards Edric Storm is the only one he acknowledged so they're out of the picture as well. Also seeing as there's been no precedent for a female ruler I doubt Dany and Rhaenys even have a claim, so I'm excluding Shireen and Arianne as well. As for the Blackfyres I doubt they'd be given the throne especially since the War of the Ninepenny Kings is still fresh in everyone's mind. I don't know why Ben Plumm is there, his Targ lineage is shaky at best and was never acknowledged.  

Targ line of succession excluding bastards and theorised secret Targs:

  1. Rhaegar: eldest son of Aerys 
  2. Aegon: son of Rhaegar
  3. Viserys: second son of Aerys
  4. Robert: eldest grandson of Rhaelle Targaryen
  5. Stannis: second grandon of Rhaelle Targaryen
  6. Renly: third grandson of Rhaelle
  7. Doran Martell: descendent of Daenerys Targaryen
  8. Quentyn Martell: Doran's eldest son
  9. Trystane Martell: Doran's youngest son
  10. Oberyn Martell: Doran's younger brother

I didn't add Jon because we don't know if he's legitimate but if he was then he'd be after Aegon. 

Edited by Pikachu101

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38 minutes ago, Pikachu101 said:

I don't know why Ben Plumm is there, his Targ lineage is shaky at best and was never acknowledged.  

I read from wiki that his predecessor married to dragon gueen.

41 minutes ago, Pikachu101 said:
  • Rhaegar: eldest son of Aerys 
  • Aegon: son of Rhaegar
  • Viserys: second son of Aerys
  • Robert: eldest grandson of Rhaelle Targaryen
  • Stannis: second grandon of Rhaelle Targaryen
  • Renly: third grandson of Rhaelle
  • Doran Martell: descendent of Daenerys Targaryen
  • Quentyn Martell: Doran's eldest son
  • Trystane Martell: Doran's youngest son
  • Oberyn Martell: Doran's younger brother

What about Brienne of Tarth?

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1 hour ago, Pikachu101 said:

Tyrion isn't a Targaryen sorry, as for Robert's bastards Edric Storm is the only one he acknowledged so they're out of the picture as well. Also seeing as there's been no precedent for a female ruler I doubt Dany and Rhaenys even have a claim, so I'm excluding Shireen and Arianne as well. As for the Blackfyres I doubt they'd be given the throne especially since the War of the Ninepenny Kings is still fresh in everyone's mind. I don't know why Ben Plumm is there, his Targ lineage is shaky at best and was never acknowledged.  

Targ line of succession excluding bastards and theorised secret Targs:

  1. Rhaegar: eldest son of Aerys 
  2. Aegon: son of Rhaegar
  3. Viserys: second son of Aerys
  4. Robert: eldest grandson of Rhaelle Targaryen
  5. Stannis: second grandon of Rhaelle Targaryen
  6. Renly: third grandson of Rhaelle
  7. Doran Martell: descendent of Daenerys Targaryen
  8. Quentyn Martell: Doran's eldest son
  9. Trystane Martell: Doran's youngest son
  10. Oberyn Martell: Doran's younger brother

I didn't add Jon because we don't know if he's legitimate but if he was then he'd be after Aegon. 

Even if there have never been ruling queens, once the male line dies out and you go trough the female line that no longer matters. So Dany does come before any Baratheon or Martell, or for that matter any other claim trough the female line.

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Assuming that one is a Targaryen loyalist, then I think Daenerys comes before Aegon, even if the latter is genuine.  After the death of Rhaegar, Aerys made Viserys his heir, and Viserys made Daenerys his heir.

In practice, either Daenerys or a legitimate Aegon have a strong claim.  Jon's position is ambiguous, but even if he was legitimised, I'd place him below the other two in the pecking order.

So, I'd give the order as follows:-

1. Daenerys, daughter of Aerys II, and sister and heir of Viserys III, who died without issue.

2. Aegon (if genuine, he has no claim otherwise), grandson of Aerys II.

3. Jon (if legitimised, he has no claim if he is not), grandson of Aerys II.

4. Stannis, great-grandson of Aegon V

5. Shireen, great-great grand-daughter of Aegon V

6. Lord Selwyn of Tarth, great-grandson (probably) of Maekar

7. Brienne of Tarth, great-great granddaughter (probably) of Maekar

8.  Doran Martell, descendant of Daeron II

9. Trystane Martell, descendant of Daeron II

10.  Arianne Martell, descendant of Daeron II.

 

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2 hours ago, Davos the Dragonslayer said:

I read from wiki that his predecessor married to dragon gueen.

He's most likely the descendent of one of Viserys Plumm's bastards so he doesn't have a claim regardless. Also the council made it clear that Elaena, her sisters, and their decedents aren't in line for the throne when they crowned Viserys II. 

2 hours ago, Davos the Dragonslayer said:

What about Brienne of Tarth?

Her Targaryen lineage isn't strong, no one would see her as a candidate for the throne. She's also a woman so that would remove her from the inheritance ladder anyway.

1 hour ago, direpupy said:

Even if there have never been ruling queens, once the male line dies out and you go trough the female line that no longer matters. 

That's if the male line dies out and that's a big if, even then it's clear that the kingdom would prefer a male relative of the king rather than his sister or daughter.

1 hour ago, direpupy said:

So Dany does come before any Baratheon or Martell, or for that matter any other claim trough the female line.

Even if anything did happen to Aegon or Viserys the throne would go to Rhaenys not Dany

59 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Assuming that one is a Targaryen loyalist, then I think Daenerys comes before Aegon, even if the latter is genuine.  After the death of Rhaegar, Aerys made Viserys his heir, and Viserys made Daenerys his heir.

I doubt anyone would choose a woman over a man even Dorne would give precedent to Aegon because he's Rhaegar's son. Also Aerys making Viserys his heir doesn't matter, both of them are dead and the laws of inheritance is on Aegon's side. If Dany takes the throne it will be because she has evidence Aegon's a Blackfyre.

59 minutes ago, SeanF said:

6. Lord Selwyn of Tarth, great-grandson (probably) of Maekar

There's no evidence that Selwyn is the great grandson of Maekar. 

59 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Jon's position is ambiguous

This I agree with, there's no proof Jon's a Targ let alone whether or not Rhaegar even married Lyanna

Edited by Pikachu101

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18 minutes ago, Pikachu101 said:

That's if the male line dies out and that's a big if, even then it's clear that the kingdom would prefer a male relative of the king rather than his sister or daughter.

Even if anything did happen to Aegon or Viserys the throne would go to Rhaenys not Dany

What the realm prefers was not the OP's question he asked about the current line of succession and Dany comes before any other relative that is not from the male line.

By the way you do know that Visery's and Rhaenys are dead don't you, so as such they are not part of the line of succession any more. So only Aegon if real and Jon if legitimate come before Dany if the are not real/legitimate respectively then as of right now in the books nobody comes before Dany.

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The current succession of House Targaryen includes only one person - Daenerys Targaryen, the sole surviving descendant of King Aerys II Targaryen.

Any other scions of House Targaryen would first have to prove they actually are Targaryen descendants - Aegon, Jon, Tyrion, etc.

The Blackfyres (which are only around through the female line, anyway) have been attainted, just as the Targaryen-Baratheons (Ormund & Rhaelle's descendants) are, from the Targaryen point of view.

Without a Targaryen monarch in charge the succession of distant Targaryen cousins - Tarths, Martells, Penroses, Plumms, Hightowers, possibly Dondarrions, etc. - is a pretty moot question. There are no laws/customs regulating such successions. Technically the Martells are likely to have the best shot of those considering their high birth - but then, they are Dornishmen, and Westeros is not likely looking forward to a Dornish monarch.

@SeanF:

The Targaryen-Martells are not descendants of Daeron II. They would be descendants of Aegon IV.

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What about Brown Ben Plumm? Danaerys must surely name him heir until  a son is born to her. He is also higher in the list then most as his ancestor, Elaena Targaryen is the daughter of Aegon III, uncle of Aegon IV who is the ancestor of the other Targaryen descendants we see.

If anything other Targaryens are usurpers of the Throne as a sister should come before a cousin.

Edited by Corvo the Crow

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7 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

What about Brown Ben Plumm? Danaerys must surely name him heir until  a son is born to him. He is also higher in the list then most as his ancestor, Elaena Targaryen is the daughter of Aegon III, uncle of Aegon IV who is the ancestor of the other Targaryen descendants we see.

If anything other Targaryens are usurpers of the Throne as a sister should come before a cousin.

First Brown Ben is of a side-branch of house Plumm, so the main branch comes before him. Secondly he betrayed dany, so i doubt he is going to get anything from her. And thirdly in the Targaryen line of succession all male Targaryens come before the female Targaryens, thats why Aegon IV came before his female cousins, but Brown Ben and any other who have a claim trough the female line i.e. not Targaryens themselves but only Targaryen ancestry do not come before Dany.

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Brown Ben is (as far as Dany is concerned) a traitor, so that would rule him out.  We don't know if he'll get back into her good books in TWOW.

And, while he is very distantly related to Daenerys, he is far too low born to be a candidate for the Iron Throne.

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Dany is the only one whose blood no one can question (other than the fandom apparently). And she's got dragons.

I don't think it would be shocking to find out that Aerys may have skipped over Aegon because of his Dornish blood, especially after the accusations he leveled at Lewyn Martell's doorstep. 

Aegon may be who they say he is. But all signs seem to point to no. 

Jon's situation is extremely ambiguous, we can have a million theories and speculations about it, it doesn't change the fact that we know about as much as he does. And we don't even know if we're going to find out anything at all about his parentage in TWOW, which is a pretty bleak thought.

The Martells are probably going to get obliterated and/or lose control over Dorne altogether. Them having a smidgen of Targaryen blood will not matter, and not everyone is a fan of the Dornish.

I'll be sad if Tommen dies before he's had the chance to outlaw beets. I hate those suckers too.

Edited by Widow's Watch

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Targaryen line has Daenarys that is known and acknowledged to be the last legit decendent of Aerys II,

Question, did Aerys disinherit Rheagar and his children by Elia of Dorne before he met his end at the hands of Jaime? Aegon/FAegon is claiming to be Rheagar and Elia's son, if not disinherited and legit, has the superior claim of all Targs.

The Baratheon line ends with Stannis and then Shireen, Then it goes back to the Targayen tree to the point of where the Baratheon line sprouted from it and moves backward. Robert's children were all bastards and cannot legitimize themselves.

Aerion Brightflame's legit children and heirs were chosen over by a great council for Egg (Aegon V) as an act of Lords of the Land if you will and another could reinstate them or declare another person the ruler. However, with all of the Wars ongoing, it will most likely take a Conquest and bringing the Other rulers to submission or a deal in exchange for power, marriage or land to bring consensus.

The Blackfyre contingent (The Golden Company is and always has been their Standard Barer) claims to be the True Royal Line all the way back to Aegon IV - The Unworthy.

Edited by A Ghost of Someone

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4 hours ago, Pikachu101 said:

Tyrion isn't a Targaryen sorry, as for Robert's bastards Edric Storm is the only one he acknowledged so they're out of the picture as well. Also seeing as there's been no precedent for a female ruler I doubt Dany and Rhaenys even have a claim, so I'm excluding Shireen and Arianne as well. As for the Blackfyres I doubt they'd be given the throne especially since the War of the Ninepenny Kings is still fresh in everyone's mind. I don't know why Ben Plumm is there, his Targ lineage is shaky at best and was never acknowledged.  

Targ line of succession excluding bastards and theorised secret Targs:

  1. Rhaegar: eldest son of Aerys 
  2. Aegon: son of Rhaegar
  3. Viserys: second son of Aerys
  4. Robert: eldest grandson of Rhaelle Targaryen
  5. Stannis: second grandon of Rhaelle Targaryen
  6. Renly: third grandson of Rhaelle
  7. Doran Martell: descendent of Daenerys Targaryen
  8. Quentyn Martell: Doran's eldest son
  9. Trystane Martell: Doran's youngest son
  10. Oberyn Martell: Doran's younger brother

I didn't add Jon because we don't know if he's legitimate but if he was then he'd be after Aegon. 

This is exactly correct. Nice run down.

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2 minutes ago, direpupy said:

First Brown Ben is of a side-branch of house Plumm, so the main branch comes before him. Secondly he betrayed dany, so i doubt he is going to get anything from her. And thirdly in the Targaryen line of succession all male Targaryens come before the female Targaryens, thats why Aegon IV came before his female cousins, but Brown Ben and any other who have a claim trough the female line i.e. not Targaryens themselves but only Targaryen ancestry do not come before Dany.

Someone should tell Dany she would rejoice over this news! Only if the great lords also agree that Robert and his kin shouldn't sit their arses on the throne as they also come from a female branch. And if all male Targaryens come before the females, Dany herself has a weaker claim to the throne because of Jon, even if we disregard that he comes from a male line. Jon may or may not be a bastard, it doesn't matter. Robb and Stannis, two kings, intended to legitimize him, Robb may have already done so. If all else fails, it is quite possible Northerners will put Jon on the Northern throne so he can legitimize himself as a king.

 

Finally, succesion is ambigous at best; . In the North a sister comes before an uncle. In Dorne (at least parts of it) males and females have equal succession rights. This is what Arianne uses to declare Myrcella queen.  Who is to say that in Westerlands a sister not comes before a cousin? And Ben Plumm may not be a Plumm at all, if the tales of his ancestor's conception is true. This would make his line a Targaryen bastard line, again able to be legitimized just like Jon.

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2 hours ago, direpupy said:

Even if there have never been ruling queens, once the male line dies out and you go trough the female line that no longer matters. So Dany does come before any Baratheon or Martell, or for that matter any other claim trough the female line.

Going by Westerosi law, the male line always comes before the female line. And Tyrion is not a Targaryen.

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Bryndon Targaryen, Bloodraven, rightful legitimized heir of Aegon the Unworthy after the deaths of Blackfyre (extinguished in the male line) and Bittersteel (no known children).

Edited by LiveFirstDieLater

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14 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

If all else fails, it is quite possible Northerners will put Jon on the Northern throne so he can legitimize himself as a king.

Will he declare that I am not bastard anymore? 

8 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Bryndon Targaryen, Bloodraven, rightful legitimized heir of Aegon the Unworthy.

When he joined Night's Watch he lost nobility.

When he run from Night's Watch he lost his head.

When he became three-eyed raven he lost humanity. 

Edited by Davos the Dragonslayer

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Presuming everyone is who they say they are, RLJ is true and Jon was born within wedlock, the Targaryen succession would be:

1.) Aegon (Aerys's first grandson)
2.) Jon (Aerys's second grandson)
3.) Daenerys (Aerys's daughter). 

If all three of them die, the closest living relatives of the Targaryen line (I believe) are still the Baratheons. So, after Daenerys would be Tommen Baratheon and then Myrcella Baratheon. Unless you can prove them bastards, they are still legally Robert's. If they are removed them from the line of succession (or they simply both die), then Stannis Baratheon is the rightful heir, followed by his daughter Shireen Baratheon.

If all the above died, you'd probably need to track down the children descended from Aegon "Egg" V's sisters.

Edited by Faera

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