A Ghost of Someone

No mention this season regarding "who should get the Dreadfort"

44 posts in this topic

Pretty sure that Sansa is keeping it to give to either her second son (first son gets Winterfell). She might even give it to Sandor Clegane if she needs to Lord him up before she puts a handfast ribbon on it.

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Firstly, it’s a house of horrors, so a lot of people might refuse to live there if they consider it (and the Boltons) cursed. Best thing to do would be to raze it to the ground, or at best use it for storage.

Also, unlike the Umbers and Karstarks, there are no Bolton heirs, so there would be no need to discuss loyalty and sins of the fathers etc when deciding who should become lord of the Dreadfort. They might have even given it to someone already. Do we really need to see Jon stamping property deeds?

And of course technically it belongs to Sansa anyway, and she likely wouldn’t want to go near the place, at least not until they’d cleaned it up and removed all the human skin and body parts.

Edited by maudisdottir

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4 hours ago, maudisdottir said:

Firstly, it’s a house of horrors, so a lot of people might refuse to live there if they consider it (and the Boltons) cursed. Best thing to do would be to raze it to the ground, or at best use it for storage.

In the same scene, the thought of doing the same to Karhold and Last Hearth (ie: Destroying a perfectly good castle for hiding from the White Walkers) is considered fucking stupid even in-universe, so... I dunno, the explanation doesn't bear itself out.

Honestly, I just think D&D forgot the Dreadfort exists. They've forgotten Moat Cailin exists this season too (there's a wall between us and the White Walkers, there's nothing between us and Cersei!)

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14 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

In the same scene, the thought of doing the same to Karhold and Last Hearth (ie: Destroying a perfectly good castle for hiding from the White Walkers) is considered fucking stupid even in-universe, so... I dunno, the explanation doesn't bear itself out.

Honestly, I just think D&D forgot the Dreadfort exists. They've forgotten Moat Cailin exists this season too (there's a wall between us and the White Walkers, there's nothing between us and Cersei!)

Thanks a lot, I wished to forget about that stupid  line. It was bad enough when Roose complained about a well-equipped Lannister army marching North.

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2 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

Thanks a lot, I wished to forget about that stupid  line. It was bad enough when Roose complained about a well-equipped Lannister army marching North.

Did he? I thought he said the lannisters would never send their forces north for them

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20 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Did he? I thought he said the lannisters would never send their forces north for them

He's said both. He said that the North is theirs in Season 4 and was mighty proud, then come Season 5 was like 'the Lannisters won't help us keep the north, guess we've gotta marry Sansa', then come Season 6 was like 'shit Ramsay, you really fucked up marrying a wanted fugitive what genius gave you that idea, now the Lannisters will be pissed and we should fear that for some reason' despite him totally coming up with the idea himself.

In hindsight, maybe Ramsay stabbing Roose didn't come out of nowhere, the bastard's been giving him mighty mixed messages.

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20 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

He's said both. He said that the North is theirs in Season 4 and was mighty proud, then come Season 5 was like 'the Lannisters won't help us keep the north, guess we've gotta marry Sansa', then come Season 6 was like 'shit Ramsay, you really fucked up marrying a wanted fugitive what genius gave you that idea, now the Lannisters will be pissed and we should fear that for some reason' despite him totally coming up with the idea himself.

In hindsight, maybe Ramsay stabbing Roose didn't come out of nowhere, the bastard's been giving him mighty mixed messages.

Thats right he did say that in 6x01. 

Although you don’t think its a reasonable thing to say? I rebelled against the crown and now we have nothing to show for it dipshit! 

Also, how impenetrable is Moat Cailin. It has never been taken from the south, but is that the only way to invade the North? Clearly the North is vulnerable to the sea based on what the iron born did.

Edited by jcmontea

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26 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Thats right he did say that in 6x01. 

Although you don’t think its a reasonable thing to say? I rebelled against the crown and now we have nothing to show for it dipshit! 

Also, how impenetrable is Moat Cailin. It has never been taken from the south, but is that the only way to invade the North? Clearly the North is vulnerable to the sea based on what the iron born did.

Good luck motivating the Southern lords to invest their ships into taking a barren land with little value.

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On 11/14/2017 at 7:11 PM, Nowy Tends said:

No kidding…

We all know where is the Dreadfort;  @The Fattest Leech was joking because this important castle has suddenly disappeared from the scene, just like Dorne's army and Houses…

To be fair, with Ellaria and the elder Sand Snakes captured/dead, the rest of Dorne might have lost their gumption.

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2 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

Good luck motivating the Southern lords to invest their ships into taking a barren land with little value.

The smart leader always plans around his potential enemies capabilities not what seems feasible in the moment since moments are fickle and can change with the wind

Poor Rob Stark didn’t know that leason

Edited by jcmontea

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11 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Also, how impenetrable is Moat Cailin. It has never been taken from the south, but is that the only way to invade the North? Clearly the North is vulnerable to the sea based on what the iron born did.

Well, even though the Ironborn holding MC were diseased and dying, the Boltons still needed Theon to parlay with them, so... it's pretty hard to take. Then randomly the Knights of the Vale can take it easily, but the Vale's forces, in fairness, have been untapped due to not participating in the War of the Five Kings, as opposed to the Lannisters, which...

...actually, after they somehow destroyed the largest army in Westeros when they were defending their castle (because flowers for sigils are weak and unmanly, no historical noble house with a flower on it has ever ruled England, cough, cough York cough Tudor), maybe the Lannister army is just invincible. Heck, even after getting rekt by dragons, Daenerys is like 'shit, we're on the ropes, let's parlay'.

Shit, maybe Sansa's right to be more afraid of Cersei than the Night's King, her army's got as much plot armour as Jon!

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2 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Well, even though the Ironborn holding MC were diseased and dying, the Boltons still needed Theon to parlay with them, so... it's pretty hard to take. Then randomly the Knights of the Vale can take it easily, but the Vale's forces, in fairness, have been untapped due to not participating in the War of the Five Kings, as opposed to the Lannisters, which...

...actually, after they somehow destroyed the largest army in Westeros when they were defending their castle (because flowers for sigils are weak and unmanly, no historical noble house with a flower on it has ever ruled England, cough, cough York cough Tudor), maybe the Lannister army is just invincible. Heck, even after getting rekt by dragons, Daenerys is like 'shit, we're on the ropes, let's parlay'.

Shit, maybe Sansa's right to be more afraid of Cersei than the Night's King, her army's got as much plot armour as Jon!

The main question is are there other ways the Lannisters in charge of the southern six kingdoms could invade? Setting aside is it likely in that moment since smart leaders plan for capabilities and not intentions. If the southern six kingdoms could swing it than its rational to fear it. If not, then she is being slighly irrational.  But the people that get in trouble in this show are the ones that don’t fear Cersei enough so Sansa even if slightly irrational is the smart one here. Sansa never would have supported the idea of trying to sign an armistace with her.

this just feels nitpicky. Sansa saying “there is nothing between us and Cersei but moat calin. I know moat calin has never been taken from the south, but i don’t care. That woman is vicious and has no humanity and will find a way to screw us” .... was a line that less than .1% of people cried out for and the more condescned version works for nearly everyone else

there were certainly areas where excessive narrative economy hurt the season. The build up to the wight hunt for example. We needed more thsn Cersei will take back half the kingdom to establish what was going on strategically with the war. Sansa’s line in7x01 was not one of those moments though in my opinion.

Edited by jcmontea

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On 25. 11. 2017 at 4:26 AM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

To be fair, with Ellaria and the elder Sand Snakes captured/dead, the rest of Dorne might have lost their gumption.

I know we are now possibly stuck in circle, but this is case where it might turn unintentionally funny. Becouse we are talking about region that was supposedly so bent on revenge for Elia, her children and Oberyn they killed the ruling prince, but when another part of the dynasty is killed, they are out of the war. Dorne was the biggest example of obvious "becouse the script demands it" ever.   

Edited by Rhodan

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8 hours ago, Rhodan said:

I know we are now possibly stuck in circle, but this is case where it might turn unintentionally funny. Becouse we are talking about region that was supposedly so bent on revenge for Elia, her children and Oberyn they killed the ruling prince, but when another part of the dynasty is killed, they are out of the war. Dorne was the biggest example of obvious "becouse the script demands it" ever.   

Now that you mention it, I think the part where Ellaria killed Doran was the death knell for the remains of this story's consistency.

There was so much wrong with that scene, I don't even know where to begin.

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3 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

Now that you mention it, I think the part where Ellaria killed Doran was the death knell for the remains of this story's consistency.

There was so much wrong with that scene, I don't even know where to begin.

I actually thought that was the scene that made sense. After 5x10 I thought Ellaria would have to kill Doran since no way she did what she did without recognizing she was putting herself in a kill or be killed scenario. So at the very least it flowed logically from what came before. Everything leading up to the scene was below average 

 

Edited by jcmontea

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3 hours ago, jcmontea said:

I actually thought that was the scene that made sense. After 5x10 I thought Ellaria would have to kill Doran since no way she did what she did without recognizing she was putting herself in a kill or be killed scenario. So at the very least it flowed logically from what came before. Everything leading up to the scene was below average 

 

No, just no. Dorne is cool with bastards and women ruling, but killing a ruling prince and then getting the Dornish houses to rally around a bastard's banner (that isn't even of Martell blood, has no trueborn kids and has no military experience) makes no sense whatsoever.

Edited by Red Tiger

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1 minute ago, Red Tiger said:

No, just no. Dorne is cool with bastards and women ruling, but killing a ruling prince and then getting the Dornish houses to rally around a bastard's banner (that isn't even of Martell blood, has no trueborn kids and has no military experience) makes no sense whatsoever.

Her killing doran and attempting a coup made all the sense in the world. Was her only play after killing Myrcela. 

The coup being successful... seems unlikely 

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9 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Her killing doran and attempting a coup made all the sense in the world. Was her only play after killing Myrcela. 

The coup being successful... seems unlikely 

The coup couldn't have been successful without some significant support. All of Dorne, however, seems unlikely. When you take out the leaders of a coup, it's to be expected that the opposition to the coup rears its head. Dorne is probably busy with itself right now.

The thing here isn't that it's illogical, the details are not included in the show. Like it or not, the show runners have decided that they don't want to delve into politics or strategy too deeply. It's probably the right decision too, they should leave this stuff to GRRM and the books.

 

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10 minutes ago, Zapho said:

The coup couldn't have been successful without some significant support. All of Dorne, however, seems unlikely. When you take out the leaders of a coup, it's to be expected that the opposition to the coup rears its head. Dorne is probably busy with itself right now.

The thing here isn't that it's illogical, the details are not included in the show. Like it or not, the show runners have decided that they don't want to delve into politics or strategy too deeply. It's probably the right decision too, they should leave this stuff to GRRM and the books.

 

The more and more prevailing sentiment I would say is that they simply shouldn´t use Dorne in the show, which was the original intention after all.  

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