US politics: Alabama Jones and the Temple of Moore

[DanteGabriel]

59 minutes ago, Fez said:

I knew there'd soon enough be stories coming out about alleged sexual harassment/assault by sitting members of Congress, and that some of those members would be Democrats.

 

Probably best that Ted Kennedy is gone.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

And this is how legislation dies. Good job Republicans:

Quote

The tax bill Senate Republicans are championing would give large tax cuts to millionaires while raising taxes on American families earning $10,000 to $75,000 over the next decade, according to an analysis released Thursday by the Joint Committee on Taxation, Congress' official nonpartisan analysts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/11/16/senate-tax-bill-cuts-taxes-of-wealthy-and-hikes-taxes-of-families-earning-under-75000-over-a-decade/?pushid=5a0db9beb0a05c1d00000015&tidr=notifi_push_breaking-news&utm_term=.c8b54cf81ed8

[Fragile Bird]

38 minutes ago, Eggegg said:

She's wearing a kevlar vest in that photo? Good luck touching anything there.

Now that I've seen the photo on my tv on CNN, I can clearly see the shadows under his hands, so he is not actually touching her at all.

[kairparavel]

And just like that AL Franken will overtake conservative news sites, right next to jailing HRC. But you know what? Keep speaking up ladies, no matter who. It's our there, so get it all out there. Time for Mr. HRC to come clean and then fade away. 

[Eggegg]

7 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Now that I've seen the photo on my tv on CNN, I can clearly see the shadows under his hands, so he is not actually touching her at all.

Well not in that photo no, thats obvious. But we don't know what else he did really. This all seems a bit like someone has a bit of an agenda as you said.

[Fragile Bird]

Ooooooooh, McConnell has called for an investigation into Franken's behaviour.

CNN says that the defenders of Moore have said that it is unprecedented that there be an investigation into conduct that occurred long before a person becomes a senator, and it's part of The Washington Swamp Thing that there are calls to investigate Moore. CNN is speculating that by investigating Franken, if Moore is elected then he can be investigated too.

Is this not dangerous territory for McConnell?  Does this not open the door wide open for investigations into Trump's conduct?

[Sivin]

1 minute ago, kairparavel said:

And just like that AL Franken will overtake conservative news sites, right next to jailing HRC. But you know what? Keep speaking up ladies, no matter who. It's our there, so get it all out there. Time for Mr. HRC to come clean and then fade away. 

Good to see this. Fucking Franken...  

No need to try and engage in moral gymnastics here, the guy is a rapey asshole. I'm not overly worked up about the photo, that's something that every soldier has been a part of. It's inappropriate for a senator, but ultimately just that. Inappropriate. It's this kissing business that is what he should hang for. Unless the radio lady explicitly forgives him (she has no reason to that I know of), he should be primaried out if he doesn't resign.

[Sivin]

1 minute ago, Fragile Bird said:

Ooooooooh, McConnell has called for an investigation into Franken's behaviour.

CNN says that the defenders of Moore have said that it is unprecedented that there be an investigation into conduct that occurred long before a person becomes a senator, and it's part of The Washington Swamp Thing that there are calls to investigate Moore. CNN is speculating that by investigating Franken, if Moore is elected then he can be investigated too.

Is this not dangerous territory for McConnell?  Does this not open the door wide open for investigations into Trump's conduct?

Yeah, this is actually pretty interesting. 

[Fragile Bird]

Looks like the Menendez jury is a hung jury.

[Kalbear]

Don' quibble. Don't excuse assault when it's someone you like. 

Franken committed assault. 

[Fragile Bird]

8 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Don' quibble. Don't excuse assault when it's someone you like. 

Franken committed assault. 

I am just waiting now to see how many more accusations come out against Franken. Since part of his comedy routine was pretty bawdy ("adult") I am sure there will be more.

Making fun of sexual situations has long been fodder for comedians. Just look up any x-rated comedy show and see the offensive material. They didn't make this stuff up out of thin air, they made it up out of observations and conduct.

But reading Tweeden's report, she said he tried to French kiss her and she told him off in no uncertain terms. And, it seems, he took the warning. At least she wasn't, ya know, 14, in his car, behind the grocery store dumpster, being warned no one would believe her.

Now, from my personal lifetime experience, if a guy trying to French kiss you is now the standard of career ending assault, my prediction is there will be almost no Senators or Congressmen left in office. Or maybe even women, though women forcing French kissing on men is pretty rare.

[DanteGabriel]

34 minutes ago, Eggegg said:

Well not in that photo no, thats obvious. But we don't know what else he did really. This all seems a bit like someone has a bit of an agenda as you said.

If I understand the events as she describes, that photo was taken after he'd coerced her into a skit where she had to kiss him, forced his tongue in her mouth, and gotten pushed away and told off by her. So that's potentially a photo of an asshole taunting his victim after sexually assaulting her.

[zelticgar]

27 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Now that I've seen the photo on my tv on CNN, I can clearly see the shadows under his hands, so he is not actually touching her at all.

What picture are you looking at? Not the same one I saw. maybe his palms are not on her but his finger tips are. Regardless it is super creepy and validates that the rest of her story is pretty likely. 

[Fragile Bird]

14 minutes ago, zelticgar said:

well What picture are you looking at? Not the same one I saw. maybe his palms are not on her but his finger tips are. Regardless it is super creepy and validates that the rest of her story is pretty likely. 

I totally believe her story. I also think the picture is super creepy. If I spent some time on the internet, I bet I could find hundreds of creepy pictures like that from movies and TV shows, played for laughs, because, you know, that's what we laughed at. And I bet the actresses involved would have plenty of stories to tell.

Tweeden posted that picture as proof Franken fondled her breasts while she was sleeping. I'm OCD about facts, and I don't see that in that picture. What happened after the camera was shut off, or in other pictures she didn't have, is another story. Since she was asleep, she doesn't know unless someone told her, does she? Publishing that photo was likely a political move calculated to create an effect. Her story about the kiss I accept without a blink, because pretty well every single woman on the face of the earth has been in the same situation.

[Dr. Pepper]

Having something happen to you while asleep makes no difference.  It's probably even more violating because you know something happened to you but had no way to prevent it.  

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

If I understand the events as she describes, that photo was taken after he'd coerced her into a skit where she had to kiss him, forced his tongue in her mouth, and gotten pushed away and told off by her. So that's potentially a photo of an asshole taunting his victim after sexually assaulting her.

I'm not convinced yet by her story. Yes, the photo is definitely bad and should never have happened. But this isn't a case where multiple independent allegations have been investigated, vetted and corroborated, as in the case  with Moore.

Rather, this is someone with ties to Sean Hannity describing an instance when she was kissed by a comedian while rehearsing a skit in which a kiss occurs. That's...pretty ordinary. Maybe she didn't like it, maybe Franken went too far. But until others come forward and a pattern of behavior can be established, I'm withholding judgment.

[Fragile Bird]

36 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Having something happen to you while asleep makes no difference.  It's probably even more violating because you know something happened to you but had no way to prevent it.  

I'm not entirely sure what you are saying here. I am saying Tweeden said Franken fondled her breasts while she was asleep and posted that picture as proof. Looking at that picture I see Franken holding his hands in front of her breasts as if that's what he wanted to do. As Dante says, an asshole getting revenge after she pushed him off. The picture was taken on the return trip from the USO tour. She saw the picture for the first time after she received a cd of pictures taken on the tour. That means that no one in fact told her Franken had fondled her breasts after she fell asleep, doesn't it?

And if he did, now that this has come out I'm sure someone, like the photographer, will speak up.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/woman-accuses-al-franken-of-kissing-groping-her-in-2006

[Kalbear]

So I mentioned a bit ago how breitbart et al would use this and counter. Here's a good example. 

If this allegation is credible, it hurts Franken. It's different than other harassment in that it is significantly safer, being photographed and in the public, but it's there. 

If it's staged, you can say that women are just being too serious. 

If she lied and actually went along with it it gives the "women all lie" more credit. 

[Mexal]

Here is Franken's new response. He notably asks for an investigation by the ethics committee himself.

 

 

[Mexal]

Also in other news, House passes tax plan with 14 republican nos. Given the 25% approval rate plus the fact that it's going to raise taxes on families earning 10-75k while cutting taxes for millionaires and big corporations, not sure how this is going to help them keep the House.