Jon is not in the line of succession

[Ralphis Baratheon]

40 minutes ago, Megorova said:

<- How to add to post this red thing with nickname? Can't find how to do this Help.

hit the @ key then start typing the members name after it and it should pop up to select it.

44 minutes ago, Megorova said:

It was Varys' suggestion to free Barristan. Even Tywin later was surprised why did they "fired" him, and that it was a stupid thing to do.

No matter who suggested it, it was stupid to do it and it was one of the reasons Tywin sent Tyrion to KL as acting Hand. So Cersei and Joff didn't follow anymore stupid suggestions by Varys or Baelish. As useful as those two can be Tywin never trusted them. And whatever else Tywin thought of Tyrion he knew he was smart enough not to agree to anymore of their stupid suggestions that could hurt the Lannisters.

52 minutes ago, Megorova said:

he made it easy for Barristan to get away from KL, and go to Essos and join with Blackfyres loyalists.

Remember it wasn't that easy for Barristan to get out of KL. The Crown sent Gold Cloaks after him that he had to kill. Then he had to disguise himself as a commoner, go back to KL, then board a ship with the rest of the commoners fleeing the war. It was quite an adventure for old Barri.

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

I think that he may be a Blackfyre, and like some of Blackfyres/Targaryens he has a gift of premonition, see visions, etc. And he had a revelation, that to find his real King he has to go to Essos, and pledge to Daenerys Targaryen, and eventually she will lead him to his King. Also Dany's mission is to bring dragons and Blackfyre sword to Jon.

If Barristan is the true Blackfyre heir why doesn't he just propose to Daenerys since he thinks she looks so much like his beloved Ashara Dayne? If I remember correctly Dany did say Battistan had a nice face and strong build. That way they can peacefully merge their exiled Houses together through marriage. Then both red and black dragon can retake Westeros together. Perhaps with Barristan riding a dragon?

Maybe the true king that Barristan has to find is his true self? He already gave up one purple eyed beauty to a Stark, why do it a second time?

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

then the sword will be given to Jon.

Barristan the Blackfyre gives Jon Daenerys AND the Blackfyre sword? Why not give him his fire breathing dragon while he's at it?

I think Barristan should take it ALL for himself. The beautiful purple eyed queens, the fancy VS swords, the fire breathing dragons. The Prince that was Promised and Azor Ahai Reborn titles. The King of fire NOT mud Barristan Selmy. The Keanu Reeves of Westeros.

[Megorova]

@Lyanna<3Rhaegar and @Ralphis Baratheon Thank you

 

@Daemon The Black Dragon Qyburn was dismissed from being a maester, and they also took his chain. Barristan was dismissed from Kingsguards. And Jaime was given title Warden of the East, after death of Jon Arryn, even though, as a member of Kingsguards, he shouldn't hold any other titles.

12 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

he may no longer be part of the Night's Watch after he is brought back, but he will never be completely free of his vows because he will still stand with the Night's Watch when the time comes to fight the Others. I don't see him bailing or washing his hands off this.

Aside from pledging to The Watch, he also swore to Old Gods, that he will protect the realm from evil. He declared his pledge to White Three beyong The Wall. So even if he will die, and then be revived, he will still have a duty to protect people, though not while being stuck at The Wall.

9 hours ago, Dragonsbone said:

We go around in circles with this discussion.

So what? You don't like merry-go-round? Though it's fun

9 hours ago, Dragonsbone said:

Did we knew about Young Griff until book 5? Did we had him in consideration as a potential successor until this book? No, it was impossible to predict that.

Still there was a possibility that Aegon Martell wasn't dead. Because of two things - 1. it was impossible to identify the boy's body, 2. supposedly he was the PTWP, so there's no way that he could have died. What is supposed to happen, always will happen.

Good example is the ending in movie The Matrix, when the bad guy was going to kill Neo, but instead was killed himself, and Neo, even though he was killed by Agents, was revived and defeated Matrix. The prophecy said that Neo will defeat the Matrix, thus he can't die.

Or a story about how some guy saw Death in one city, and run from it far away. But when some time later, he arrived to another city, he died. And when Death came to take his soul away, it told him that it was surprised to see him, at that first city, where they met. Because the guy was supposed to meet with his death in the second city.

The Prince is a part of a prophecy, and we do know that in the world of ASOIAF prophecies are real - Doom of Valyria, death of Cersei's children, her becoming Queen, dragons hatching from stone, Duncan The Tall becoming a Kingsguard, Dragon appearing at Whitewalls during Black's Second rebellion (when people thought that the dragon will hatch from the egg, but actually it was Aegon the Egg accepting who he is, and becoming a Targaryen prince).

9 hours ago, Dragonsbone said:

Discussions are a great thing, and I also love participating, but this topic is of such nature, that we simply can't say who may be right and who may be wrong. 

We're discussing for the sake of discussion, and not for making some final conclusion, should Jon or shouldn't, can or can't. This is the case when the process is more pleasant than the final result.

9 hours ago, Dragonsbone said:

Right now, with all the informations we have, Jon is not in the line of succession, no matter if he is Rhaegars son or not. He is, in consideration of all the informations we have, a bastard and therefore not in the line of succession. 

Add to that, that according to information that we do know, he also is Ned's bastard son, and has no connection to Rhaegar or other Targaryens. Thus Iron Throne is definitely not for him.

I will be very mad at GRRM, if later he will reveal that Jon is exactly that - Eddard Stark's bastard, from some Wylla girl. I will cry a river from disapointment

Jon should be a Cinderella of ASOIAF.

[Son of Man]

On 11/13/2017 at 11:43 PM, Noble Lothar Frey said:

Jon is not in the line of succession.

 

 

 

[Ygrain]

16 hours ago, Consigliere said:

I don't know why we are bitching over succession as the situation currently stands. Lets not forget that the DodD 2.0 is still to come not to mention the second Long Night. The power dynamics could drastically change between those two events.

As far as personal opinion goes, I don't think that Jon will actually sit the Iron Throne but rather that he will fulfill the duty of a king as per Davos: " And I know that a king protects his people, or he is no king at all." And lets not forget Varys's story about power lying where people believe it lies.

Agreed. Jon will do whatever it might take, including the ultimate sacrifice, because that's the best king one can be.

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

@Megorova Yeah, I know that. That's why I mentioned them besides the example of Jaime. KG's can hold certain titles, like Hand of the King and Warden. Warden is just a military title really. 

[Megorova]

7 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Jon will do whatever it might take, including the ultimate sacrifice, because that's the best king one can be.

So the best kind of King is dead King?

17 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

No matter who suggested it, it was stupid to do it and it was one of the reasons Tywin sent Tyrion to KL as acting Hand. So Cersei and Joff didn't follow anymore stupid suggestions by Varys or Baelish.

Tywin - " ...dismissing Selmy, where was the sense in that? Yes, the man was old, but the name of Barristan the Bold still has meaning in the realm, He lent honor to any man he served."

We all agree that it was indeed stupid, and I think that all readers also agree that Varys is far from being stupid. So what was his real reason for dismissing Barristan?

17 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

If Barristan is the true Blackfyre heir why doesn't he just propose to Daenerys since he thinks she looks so much like his beloved Ashara Dayne? If I remember correctly Dany did say Battistan had a nice face and strong build.

Dany said about him - "He has a good face, and great strength to him." - she's Targaryen, he's also (maybe) from dragon blood, thus for her he is atractive, and she feels something in him.

He's 63-64, she's 16. By age she could have been his great granddaughter:

(Barri 16 + his child 16) 32 + (his grandchild 16) 48 + his great grandchild 16 = 64 years.

Also she may look like his beloved Ashara, and he thought -

"His choice would have been a young maiden not long at court, one of Elia's companions ... though compared to Ashara Dayne, the Dornish princess was a kitchen drab."

and

"She died never knowing that Ser Barristan had loved her. How could she? He was a knight of the Kingsguard, sworn to celibacy. No good could have come from telling her his feelings. No good came from silence either. If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she have looked to me instead of Stark?"

But he also thought this -

"Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna and thousands died for it. Daemon Blackfyre loved the first Daenerys, and rose in rebellion when denied her. Bittersteel and Bloodraven both loved Shiera Seastar and the Seven Kingdoms bled. The Prince of Dragonflies loved Jenny of Oldstones so much he cast aside a crown, and Westeros paid the bride price in corpses. All three of the sons of the fifth Aegon had wed for love in defiance of their father's wishes. And because that unlikely monarch had followed his heart when he chose his queen, he allowed his sons to have their way, making bitter enemies when he might have made fast friends. Treason and turmoil followed, as night follows day, ending at Summerhall in sorcery, fire and grief."

Thus logical conclusion of his thoughts - love causes too much problems, and should be kept in check.

17 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

That way they can peacefully merge their exiled Houses together through marriage. Then both red and black dragon can retake Westeros together.

If he is a Black dragon, then his many years of service to Targaryens, prove that he had about their situation (relationship between Blacks and Reds) the same opinion as Lord Bloodraven - Iron Throne and 7K is a property of Targaryens, and Blackfyres are NOT Targaryens, thus they have no right to claim it.

Aegon IV legitimized his bastards, but his children from his sole official wife and sister, Naerys Targaryen, were his only heirs - Daeron II Targaryen, born in 153, and his sister Daenerys, born in 172.

From his maternal grandfather (Aegon III) and paternal grandfather (Viserys II), Daemon was 50% Targaryen. And both his grandmothers were from Valyrian families - Velaryons and Rogares. His half-siblings Daeron II and Daenerys had the same percentage of Targaryen blood as Daemon, thru same set of grandparents. So unlike Aegon's other bastards, Daemon I Blackfyre, at least was a pureblood Valyrian: Viserys II Targaryen + Larra Rogare = Aegon IV, Aegon III Targaryen + Daenaera Velaryon = Daena Targaryen, Aegon IV + Daena = Daemon I Blackfyre. So by blood he wasn't any lesser than his half-brother Daeron.

Though the main difference between them, that was a deciding factor, for which one of them has a rightful claim to be King of 7K, and which doesn't, wasn't based on their blood. The thing is - Daemon Blackfyre was born in 170, 17 years after birth of Aegon's firstborn son, and thus his rightful heir - Daeron II. Also Daeron II had his own legitimate heirs - his four sons, from his wife Mariah Martell.

Thus Blackfyres of that time, even legitimized, had a very weak claim, and were still the very last in Targaryens' succession line.

So even if Barristan is a Blackfyre, personally he has nothing against Targaryens. And isn't angry at them for exiling his predecessors from Westeros. Because what were they expecting to happen? - they had no right to sit on Iron Throne, the whole mess started because of a woman (Daemon was in love with Daenerys, but for political reasons she was married to another), then it continued also because of a woman (Aegor Rivers lusted after Shiera Seastar, but she prefered company of Brynden Rivers who, even though he was also the same as Aegor, one of Aegon IV bastards and Blackfyre himself, was serving to Targaryens), and kept going thru whole Five Rebellions, just because Blackfyres were too greedy, too envious, too jealous, and also too stupid to realise when to stop. So their exile was entirely deserved.

So maybe Barristan served to Targaryens, because he wanted to make up for all sufferings, that his family caused to Targaryens, and to people of 7K.

But if he will marry with Dany, he will betray Targaryens. Because thru this union, he will let other Blackfyres to get closer to Iron Throne. And they shouldn't be given access to it. For everything they did, they have no moral right to rule over Westeros. They are the bad guys. And Barristan wants to crown, a good and worhty person as his King.

And Dany also deserves a right, to finally marry out of love, and not because of some obligations or political reasons. She deserves to have a house with red door. If she wants it.

Though I think that the door of that house in Braavos, wasn't just randomly painted in red color. I think spies of the Blacks marked that door, to show that it's a house where the Reds live.

[Pikachu101]

Getting off point again; until it can be proven Jon's a legitimate Targaryen he has no claim let's leave it at that

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

So the best kind of King is dead King?

That isn't at all what the poster said that you quoted? 

 

8 minutes ago, Pikachu101 said:

Getting off point again; until it can be proven Jon's a legitimate Targaryen he has no claim let's leave it at that

I agree the whole Barry is a Blackfyre is completely off subject & really has nothing to do with this thread but there are other things to discuss in regards to Jon possibly being in the line of succession - as proven by the length of the thread. Of course you are more than welcome to leave it at that but other posters don't have to quit discussing it because you have come to your conclusion. 

[Megorova]

9 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Jon will do whatever it might take, including the ultimate sacrifice, because that's the best king one can be.

17 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

So the best kind of King is dead King?

That isn't at all what the poster said that you quoted? 

King is a ruler. He governs over people.

If Jon will lead people in a war, and then sacrifice his life to defeat the Others, then he wan't become a King. Leader and King are different things.

If he will sacrifice his life, then he will die before becoming King, or sitting on Iron Throne. Thus even if he will be crowned afterwards, it will be post mortem, after his death, thus - dead King.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

48 minutes ago, Megorova said:

King is a ruler. He governs over people.

If Jon will lead people in a war, and then sacrifice his life to defeat the Others, then he wan't become a King. Leader and King are different things.

If he will sacrifice his life, then he will die before becoming King, or sitting on Iron Throne. Thus even if he will be crowned afterwards, it will be post mortem, after his death, thus - dead King.

Well not necessarily. A King that sacrifices his life for his people is still a King. He is a good King IMO. 

If he died after being King he would still have been a King. He wouldn't be crowned after death. 

Leader & King are different things but they aren't mutually exclusive. A King is a leader & a good leader can potentially make a good King. 

[Ygrain]

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

King is a ruler. He governs over people.

If Jon will lead people in a war, and then sacrifice his life to defeat the Others, then he wan't become a King. Leader and King are different things.

If he will sacrifice his life, then he will die before becoming King, or sitting on Iron Throne. Thus even if he will be crowned afterwards, it will be post mortem, after his death, thus - dead King.

(the first minute or so)

And just FYI, the person saying it is actually the game's equivalent of Jon - or perhaps I might say, is inspired by Jon, because Dragon Age: Origin acknowledges AGOT as its inspiration. I sincerely hope that it won't come to this, but, who knows... perhaps Dany will be the one taking the ultimate sacrifice, for the realm and for Jon. A girl can hope, after all.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

4 hours ago, Megorova said:

And Barristan wants to crown, a good and worhty person as his King.

Naw, I feel like Barristan Blackfyre would make a power grab after he finds out his true lineage.  That he'd be tired of being used as a pawn and saving Targaryens with no reward. As a king he'd need a queen and heirs and Dany is into older warriors not named Ser. Jorah. So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree that if your theory about Barristan being a Blackfyre is true he'll go down a different path.

 

[Megorova]

47 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Naw, I feel like Barristan Blackfyre would make a power grab after he finds out his true lineage.  That he'd be tired of being used as a pawn and saving Targaryens with no reward. As a king he'd need a queen and heirs and Dany is into older warriors not named Ser. Jorah. So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree that if your theory about Barristan being a Blackfyre is true he'll go down a different path.

If he is a Blackfyre, then he knows about it, and always knew.

Because some of Blackfyres had an ability to see the future, they had prophetic visions. So in case if Barristan also has a gift like that, his father wouldn't risk, and not to tell him about his origin. Because otherwise, if one day little Barri had a premonition, told about it to someone, and what he said, later really happened, then people would have realised who he is. Which would have ended badly for him and his family.

If someone has a gift of premonition, it isn't equal to that person definitely being a Blackfyre. But not in those times and that place. Lords of Dornish Marches, where he was born, supported Blackfyres in their first two rebellions. And King Maeker I was also killed in Dornish Marches, during Peake Uprising, just 3 years prior Barristan's birth. After King's death, Westeros was in a state of chaos. At that time also happened very harsh winter, that lasted for six years. And after it finally ended, Blackfyres arrived again, with their Fourth Rebellion. That's when Barristan was born.  

So by that time, people of 7K were already fed up with Blackfyres, and their rebellions. Now imagine what people will think, when some boy from Dornish Marches will display gift of premonition? Thus his father told him who he is, to prevent him from accidental exposure. He grew up in fear of being unmasked, and resented Blackfyres for his spoiled childhood. But then he met Targaryens. And they were awesame. Especially Prince Duncan, who treated him very kindly. So he became Targaryen loyalist, and for many years devotedly served to them.

After living under those circumstances, power grab would be ridiculous.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

4 hours ago, Megorova said:

If he is a Blackfyre, then he knows about it, and always knew.

Yet he never reflects on it in his POV? He thinks about Ashara and everything else but not about his true linage? He never thinks about his Kinslaying of Maelys and how he might be cursed? No, I just don't see it.

4 hours ago, Megorova said:

Because some of Blackfyres had an ability to see the future, they had prophetic visions

Targaryens have always had that gift and that's where the Blackfyres get it from. That's basically what Bloodraven told Dunk.

4 hours ago, Megorova said:

So in case if Barristan also has a gift like that, his father wouldn't risk, and not to tell him about his origin. Because otherwise, if one day little Barri had a premonition, told about it to someone, and what he said, later really happened, then people would have realised who he is. Which would have ended badly for him and his family.

Ned didn't take this approach or worry about any of this with Jon.

4 hours ago, Megorova said:

power grab would be ridiculous.

No more ridiculous then the Barristan Blackfyre theory was to start with in my opinion. 

Why have him be a secret anything if it isn't going to change his character and the decisions he makes in anyway?  Your theory that he's a Blackfyre and has always known yet never told anyone and will never tell anyone is kind of pointless. Especially if he doesn't even acknowledge it in his own mind while we get his thoughts from his POV.

[Megorova]

10 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Ned didn't take this approach or worry about any of this with Jon.

Barristan was born in era of Blackfyres rebellions. Jon was born 100+ years later. And people think that he is a northener, and son of Ned Stark. Thus even if he will display some weird abilities, people will rather think that he has blood of Children of the Forest, like they thought about that witch Jenny, that said to Targaryens, that Jaehaerys' line will give life to the PTWP. Or people will think that he is a greenseer. People in The North have corresponding northern mentality.

Example of corresponding mentality: people found dead bloodless animal - if this will happen somewhere in Mexico, those people will think that it was done by Chupacabra, but if the thing like that will happen in Carpathian mountains, people will think that it was done by Count Dracula, and teenage girls in USA will think that the perpetrator is Edward Cullen.

When in The North some weird stuff is happening, people think that it's a doing of Old Gods, or Children, or the Others. They wouldn't even think about Dragons (Targaryens, Blackfyres, and their abilities).

But most likely Ned never even thought about Jon even displaying any supernatural abilities, or Targaryen traits, that could reveal his real identity to others. That's because by that time, Blackfyres and their foresigning, were already forgotten by people. Especially in The North, that never, in any capacity, were involved in any feuds between the Dragons.

10 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

15 hours ago, Megorova said:

power grab would be ridiculous.

No more ridiculous then the Barristan Blackfyre theory was to start with in my opinion. 

Just a theory. What could be. Though the point is, is that in case if he is a Blackfyre, and nevertheless he served for years to Targaryens and, based on what he said about all of them to Dany, he was loyal to them and liked them (even Aerys, prior he became cuckoo), so in bounds of this theory, Barristan wouldn't be interested in becoming a King, or having any power for himself, he is content with being a loyal servant for a worthy master.

Quote

Why have him be a secret anything if it isn't going to change his character and the decisions he makes in anyway?  Your theory that he's a Blackfyre and has always known yet never told anyone and will never tell anyone is kind of pointless.

He will tell. Eventually. Furthermore under certain circumstances he could be forced to reveal who he is.

For example: he if a Blackfyre, furthermore his mother was daughter of Aegon Rivers, and Aegor was a founder of the Golden Company. When time will come for Dany to face fAegon, Barristan could reveal to the Golden Company who he is, to stop them from fighting against Dany.

Also could be that Quaithe is Jeyne Swann, and mother of fAegon. Eventually Barristan and Quaithe will meet, and she will tell him that fAegon is his son. He's loyal to Dany, though he wouldn't want to kill his son, if they will fight against each other. Thus he will reveal to fAegon and to Golden Company, who he really is.

10 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Especially if he doesn't even acknowledge it in his own mind while we get his thoughts from his POV.

There's two more books to go. Why would GRRM reveal now all secrets, if he can keep them for later?

Also we had only one chapter with Barristan's point of view, in Winter, and 4 in Dance, while with Ned we had 15 chapters. Nevertheless even in span of 15 chapters, Ned never thought about who Jon's real mother is, and also didn't revealed all of his secrets. So were you expecting that Barri will reveal to us, in span of his single chapter, all memories of his entire lifetime? Of course not. In Dance he was mostly interacting with Dany, or getting to her, or thinking about his way to her. And now, when we finally can read what he thinks, without Dany at his side, he's too busy with preparation for approaching battle. So he has no time to think about his past.

P.S. I'm not actually serious about this theory. I'm just using this forum to practice written English (which is my 4th language, so I need to practice periodically, to not forget it).

[maudisdottir]

6 hours ago, Megorova said:

Barristan was born in era of Blackfyres rebellions. Jon was born 100+ years later.

I haven't read past this line - so Barristan is over 115 years old at the time of the WOT5K?

ETA: OK I finished reading and as noted above, it's just a bunch of fan fiction.

6 hours ago, Megorova said:

Ned never thought about who Jon's real mother is,

Well, he doesn't SAY he's thinking about Jon's real mother, but he certainly thinks about Lyanna, and Rhaegar, and the events of the TOJ, and Jon even makes an appearance in his thoughts when he's recalling Lyanna and Rhaegar. But it's clear, even if you don't believe in R+L=J, that Ned is troubled by secrets he's kept for many years.

Does Barristan ever reminisce about that time in his childhood when he discovered black dragon banners hidden away at his family home? Or mysterious silver haired visitors coming in the dead of night to see the child? Anything?

Those would be clues that there was some mystery surrounding Barristan's origins. But in five books, with plenty of opportunity for Barry to drop a few hints, we still get nothing.

[Corvo the Crow]

On ‎26‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 0:31 AM, Ygrain said:

(the first minute or so)

And just FYI, the person saying it is actually the game's equivalent of Jon - or perhaps I might say, is inspired by Jon, because Dragon Age: Origin acknowledges AGOT as its inspiration. I sincerely hope that it won't come to this, but, who knows... perhaps Dany will be the one taking the ultimate sacrifice, for the realm and for Jon. A girl can hope, after all.

I never knew this, though I found some stuff very similar, like Night's Watch and Grey Wardens. It makes perfect sense now, thanks! But this isn't why I posted. Though I can't recall the scene it is Allistair's duty to die because he is the senior Warden, his calling is closer than the hero(ine) of whatever origin story.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

1 hour ago, maudisdottir said:

so Barristan is over 115 years old at the time of the WOT5K?

LOL That was my favorite part of @Megorova's theory and probably the most believable.

7 hours ago, Megorova said:

P.S. I'm not actually serious about this theory.

Yeah, I kind of figured that. Still, I'd like to see Barristan become a power hungry Sith Lord.

[Megorova]

1 hour ago, maudisdottir said:

7 hours ago, Megorova said:

Barristan was born in era of Blackfyres rebellions. Jon was born 100+ years later.

I haven't read past this line - so Barristan is over 115 years old at the time of the WOT5K?

I meant not time from Barristan's birth to Jon's birth, but time from beginning of Rebellions Era that started in 196. Barristan was born in 236/237, Jon was born in 283, 87 years later, and ASOIAF started in 298 AC, 102 years after beginning of "era of Rebellions".

So probably more correct would have been to write ->

"When Jon was raised by Ned, until Ned's death, by that time from beginning of Rebellions Era passed over 100 years."

1 hour ago, maudisdottir said:

ETA: OK I finished reading and as noted above, it's just a bunch of fan fiction.

Speculations. Based on actual facts from the books.

Quote

R+L=J

1 hour ago, maudisdottir said:

Does Barristan ever reminisce about that time in his childhood when he discovered black dragon banners hidden away at his family home?

Selmy's castle is in Dornish Marches, and marchen lords supported Blackfyres during First and Second Rebellions, and they killed King Maekar I during Peake Uprising (House Peake is also from DM). So the possibility that Selmys did have black dragon banners hidden in their castle, is more likely, than the possibility that they didn't.

[maudisdottir]

5 hours ago, Megorova said:

So the possibility that Selmys did have black dragon banners hidden in their castle, is more likely, than the possibility that they didn't.

But in order for there to be a mystery, we need clues. “They most probably did do this thing I’ve pulled out of thin air” isn’t a clue. And even if we don’t get any clues, George would have dropped hints that something is going on with Barristan’s past - but he didn’t. That’s why I called it fan fiction - you’re not basing your theory on anything written in the books.