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Widow's Watch

Summerhall, Harrenhal and Jenny's Song

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I've sort of been hesitant about creating a new topic, mainly because there are pages and pages of discussions and I don't want to repeat something that has already been discussed. If it has, I'll just take it down.

This is not the deepest and most profound analysis, but discussion slipped around Jenny's Song in one of the threads.

This is something that I have been mulling over for some time and I'm just really going off of the one line we know about Jenny's Song. Robb also makes mention of Jenny with the flowers in her hair, which is so very reminiscent of Lyanna and her crown of winter roses (I remember this being brought up by @LiveFirstDieLater in the thread).

First off, like some people, I think that the entire prophecy of the Prince that was Promised is hidden inside Jenny's Song. 

This is the actual line we know;

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High in the halls of the kings who are gone, Jenny would dance with her ghosts (ASOS, Epilogue)

And then we get this from the Ghost of Hight Heart and one of her visions as she talks to Beric, Tom and Lem;

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In the hall of kings, the goat sits alone and fevered as the great dog descends on him. (Arya VIII, ASOS)

The GoHH is talking about Vargo Hoat who is dying of an infection after Brienne bit his ear off, who is going to be maimed and killed by Gregor Clegane. She doesn't give us the name of the location, she only calls the location the hall of kings. And because we know she talks using sigils and other references, then the hall of kings is most definitely Harrenhal.

In AGOT, Tyrion IX, Tywin Lannister references Harrenhal as the "seat of kings" when he rants about Janos Slynt being made lord of it. It's not much different from the "hall of kings", imo, but others may see it differently. 

Then we get this line about Shella Whent from Catelyn;

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Last of her line, dwelt with her ghosts in the cavernous vaults of Harrenhal. (Catelyn V, AGOT)

Jenny dances with her ghosts in the high hall of kings and Shella Whent dwells with her ghosts at Harrenhal. I think there is an association to be made here. 

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There is a song. Jenny of Oldstones, with the flowers in her hair (Catelyn V, ASOS)

This is the extent of Robb's knowledge of Jenny's Song. A girl with flowers in her hair. And it's sort of funny that this is what his mind recalls. 

In any case . . .

Harrenhal like Summerhall was gutted by fire. Harrenhal was gutted by dragonfire and Summerhall by wildfire. In both cases, kings died. Summerhall was a summer residence, so it would not compare to the Red Keep. Summerhall in my mind is more like Dragonstone. Kings don't live there. The dragonfire killed Harren the Black and his entire line and at Summerhall, it was Aegon V, Duncan the Small (who was no longer crown prince) and others we have yet to find out about (I am not naming Duncan the Tall here because he's not a Targaryen).

But Summerhall also saw the birth of Rhaegar who may have written Jenny's song, who may have been behind the tourney at Harrenhal, who gave a crown of flowers to Lyanna. 

I know that the visions at the HotU throw some of things into a bit of a tailspin, but I am not a firm believer in those interpretations.

Like I said, not the deepest of analysis, but I really think that the song is connected to Harrenhal. Harrenhal has been part of near every battle, has been taken, passed around, its location is prime because it's not so far from the Isle of Faces. It's easy for people who listen to the song to think it's about the tragedy at Summerhall, because everyone knows who Jenny is and how Duncan gave up his crown for her. And yet, it may not even be about that at all.

Edited by Widow's Watch

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I think the thread you are looking for is the Promises Kept Thread:

I think these are very astute connections that haven't been given enough attention.  I too think that Rhaegar composed Jenny's Song for the GoHH in payment for her dream/visions.

Edited by LynnS

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@Widow's Watch

Also, Prince Duncan broke his betrothal to marry Jenny while traveling in the riverlands in 239 AC, twenty years before Summerhall/Rhaegar's birth, which led to the uprising of the Laughing Storm Lyonel Baratheon, whose daughter had been betrothed to Duncan. There are some similarities to Rhaegar meeting and later abducting the already betrothed Lyanna in the riverlands, which in part led to the uprising of Robert Baratheon, who had been betrothed to Lyanna.

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@LynnS, thank you for the link, I've updated the thread.

26 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

@Widow's Watch

Also, Prince Duncan broke his betrothal to marry Jenny while traveling in the riverlands in 239 AC, twenty years before Summerhall/Rhaegar's birth, which led to the uprising of the Laughing Storm Lyonel Baratheon, whose daughter had been betrothed to Duncan. There are some similarities to Rhaegar meeting and later abducting the already betrothed Lyanna in the riverlands, which in part led to the uprising of Robert Baratheon, who had been betrothed to Lyanna.

Absolutely, although I have never been on the abduction train. 

Until we know what the whole song is about, I think the references that may have been put inside it are going to be very subtle. 

I think Harrenhal is an important part of the whole. Same as Summerhall because of its location, same as the Tower of Joy because of its location.

And we don't really talk about Oswell Whent because we don't have all that much on him, but he was born and raised at Harrenhal. And that might actually make him a little bit more important than we think he is.

Edited by Widow's Watch

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4 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

@LynnS, thank you for the link, I've updated the thread.

Absolutely, although I have never been on the abduction train. 

Until we know what the whole song is about, I think the references that may have been put inside it are going to be very subtle. 

I think Harrenhal is an important part of the whole. Same as Summerhall because of its location, same as the Tower of Joy because of its location.

 

I say abduction because even the Targaryen account of things related by Daenerys has Rhaegar 'romantically' carrying Lyanna off at sword point. Not that I think Lyanna was in harm's way, but I could see her resisting going, similar to Yoren with Arya during Ned's execution.

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28 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

@LynnS, thank you for the link, I've updated the thread.

Absolutely, although I have never been on the abduction train. 

Until we know what the whole song is about, I think the references that may have been put inside it are going to be very subtle. 

I think Harrenhal is an important part of the whole. Same as Summerhall because of its location, same as the Tower of Joy because of its location.

And we don't really talk about Oswell Whent because we don't have all that much on him, but he was born and raised at Harrenhal. And that might actually make him a little bit more important than we think he is.

Only two places are referred to as a "hall of kings"... Harrenhall, and Oldstones...

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"Oldstones, all the smallfolk called it when I was a girl, but no doubt it had some other name when it was still a hall of kings." She had camped here once with her father, on their way to Seagard. Petyr was with us too.

Seems like a solid connection at least...

 

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. The other Hall of Kings is Oldstones:
 

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A Storm of Swords - Catelyn V

He gave her an enigmatic smile. "That's one way to go," he said, and she knew from his tone that he would say no more. A wise king keeps his own counsel, she reminded herself.

They reached Oldstones after eight more days of steady rain, and made their camp upon the hill overlooking the Blue Fork, within a ruined stronghold of the ancient river kings. Its foundations remained amongst the weeds to show where the walls and keeps had stood, but the local smallfolk had long ago made off with most of the stones to raise their barns and septs and holdfasts. Yet in the center of what once would have been the castle's yard, a great carved sepulcher still rested, half hidden in waist-high brown grass amongst a stand of ash.

The lid of the sepulcher had been carved into a likeness of the man whose bones lay beneath, but the rain and the wind had done their work. The king had worn a beard, they could see, but otherwise his face was smooth and featureless, with only vague suggestions of a mouth, a nose, eyes, and the crown about the temples. His hands folded over the shaft of a stone warhammer that lay upon his chest. Once the warhammer would have been carved with runes that told its name and history, but all that the centuries had worn away. The stone itself was cracked and crumbling at the corners, discolored here and there by spreading white splotches of lichen, while wild roses crept up over the king's feet almost to his chest.

It was there that Catelyn found Robb, standing somber in the gathering dusk with only Grey Wind beside him. The rain had stopped for once, and he was bareheaded. "Does this castle have a name?" he asked quietly, when she came up to him.

"Oldstones, all the smallfolk called it when I was a girl, but no doubt it had some other name when it was still a hall of kings." She had camped here once with her father, on their way to Seagard. Petyr was with us too . . .

"There's a song," he remembered. "'Jenny of Oldstones, with the flowers in her hair.'

"We're all just songs in the end. If we are lucky." She had played at being Jenny that day, had even wound flowers in her hair. And Petyr had pretended to be her Prince of Dragonflies. Catelyn could not have been more than twelve, Petyr just a boy.

Robb studied the sepulcher. "Whose grave is this?"

"Here lies Tristifer, the Fourth of His Name, King of the Rivers and the Hills." Her father had told her his story once. "He ruled from the Trident to the Neck, thousands of years before Jenny and her prince, in the days when the kingdoms of the First Men were falling one after the other before the onslaught of the Andals. The Hammer of Justice, they called him. He fought a hundred battles and won nine-and-ninety, or so the singers say, and when he raised this castle it was the strongest in Westeros." She put a hand on her son's shoulder. "He died in his hundredth battle, when seven Andal kings joined forces against him. The fifth Tristifer was not his equal, and soon the kingdom was lost, and then the castle, and last of all the line. With Tristifer the Fifth died House Mudd, that had ruled the riverlands for a thousand years before the Andals came." 

"His heir failed him." Robb ran a hand over the rough weathered stone. "I had hoped to leave Jeyne with child . . . we tried often enough, but I'm not certain . .

So perhaps the association with the high hall and roses goes back as far as the high hall of Oldstones. Did the heir fail him by casting aside the crown? 

The mention of wild roses reminds me of this passage:

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A Clash of Kings - Jon III

On his way back, Jon swung wide of the column's line of march and took a shorter path through the thick of the wood. The sounds of man and horse diminished, swallowed up by the wet green wild, and soon enough he could hear only the steady wash of rain against leaf and tree and rock. It was midafternoon, yet the forest seemed as dark as dusk. Jon wove a path between rocks and puddles, past great oaks, grey-green sentinels, and black-barked ironwoods. In places the branches wove a canopy overhead and he was given a moment's respite from the drumming of the rain against his head. As he rode past a lightning-blasted chestnut tree overgrown with wild white roses, he heard something rustling in the underbrush. "Ghost," he called out. "Ghost, to me."

Oldstones figures figures prominently in one of only two Epilogues so far:

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A Storm of Swords - Epilogue

But only if he was there by sunset with the gold. Merrett glanced at the sky. Right on time. He needed something to steady his hands. He pulled up the waterskin hung from his saddle, uncorked it, and took a long swallow. The wine was thick and sweet, so dark it was almost black, but gods it tasted good.

The curtain wall of Oldstones had once encircled the brow of the hill like the crown on a king's head. Only the foundation remained, and a few waist-high piles of crumbling stone spotted with lichen. Merrett rode along the line of the wall until he came to the place where the gatehouse would have stood. The ruins were more extensive here, and he had to dismount to lead his palfrey through them. In the west, the sun had vanished behind a bank of low clouds. Gorse and bracken covered the slopes, and once inside the vanished walls the weeds were chest high. Merrett loosened his sword in its scabbard and looked about warily, but saw no outlaws. Could I have come on the wrong day? He stopped and rubbed his temples with his thumbs, but that did nothing to ease the pressure behind his eyes. Seven bloody hells . . .

From somewhere deep within the castle, faint music came drifting through the trees.

Merrett found himself shivering, despite his cloak. He pulled open his waterskin and had another drink of wine. I could just get back on my horse, ride to Oldtown, and drink the gold away. No good ever came from dealing with outlaws. That vile little bitch Wenda had burned a fawn into the cheek of his arse while she had him captive. No wonder his wife despised him. I have to go through with this. Petyr Pimple might be Lord of the Crossing one day, Edwyn has no sons and Black Walder's only got bastards. Petyr will remember who came to get him. He took another swallow, corked the skin up, and led his palfrey through broken stones, gorse, and thin wind-whipped trees, following the sounds to what had been the castle ward.

Fallen leaves lay thick upon the ground, like soldiers after some great slaughter. A man in patched, faded greens was sitting crosslegged atop a weathered stone sepulcher, fingering the strings of a woodharp. The music was soft and sad. Merrett knew the song. High in the halls of the kings who are gone, Jenny would dance with her ghosts . . .

Sansa also knows Jenny's song and one of her favorites is the song of Florian and Jonquil another sad sweet love song and perhaps Jenny's Song is a variant:

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A Feast for Crows - Sansa I

If the Eyrie had been made like other castles, only rats and gaolers would have heard the dead man singing. Dungeon walls were thick enough to swallow songs and screams alike. But the sky cells had a wall of empty air, so every chord the dead man played flew free to echo off the stony shoulders of the Giant's Lance. And the songs he chose . . . He sang of the Dance of the Dragons, of fair Jonquil and her fool, of Jenny of Oldstones and the Prince of Dragonflies. He sang of betrayals, and murders most foul, of hanged men and bloody vengeance. He sang of grief and sadness.

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The Hedge Knight

Lord Ashford was staging this tourney to celebrate his daughter's thirteenth nameday. The fair maid would sit by her father's side as the reigning Queen of Love and Beauty. Five champions wearing her favors would defend her. All others must perforce be challengers, but any man who could defeat one of the champions would take his place and stand as a champion himself, until such time as another challenger unseated him. At the end of three days of jousting, the five who remained would determine whether the fair maid would retain the crown of Love and Beauty, or whether another would wear it in her place.

Dunk stared at the grassy lists and the empty chairs on the viewing stand and pondered his chances. One victory was all he needed; then he could name himself one of the champions of Ashford Meadow, if only for an hour. The old man had lived nigh on sixty years and had never been a champion. It is not too much to hope for, if the gods are good. He thought back on all the songs he had heard, songs of blind Symeon Star-Eyes and noble Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, of Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, Ser Ryam Redywne, and Florian the Fool. They had all won victories against foes far more terrible than any he would face. But they were great heroes, brave men of noble birth, except for Florian. And what am I?

Florian the fool of the old songs is a far cry from Ser Dontos the Fool with victories against foes far more terrible than Dunk can imagine.  Listed in the ranks of brave men of noble birth; with Florian the exception. 

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The Hedge Knight

He found Egg at the puppet show, sitting crosslegged on the ground with the hood of his cloak pulled all the way forward to hide his baldness. The boy had been afraid to enter the castle, which Dunk put down to equal parts shyness and shame. He does not think himself worthy to mingle with lords and ladies, let alone great princes. It had been the same with him when he was little. The world beyond Flea Bottom had seemed as frightening as it was exciting. Egg needs time, that's all. For the present, it seemed kinder to give the lad a few coppers and let him enjoy himself among the stalls than to drag him along unwilling into the castle.

This morning the puppeteers were doing the tale of Florian and Jonquil. The fat Dornishwoman was working Florian in his armor made of motley, while the tall girl held Jonquil's strings. "You are no knight," she was saying as the puppet's mouth moved up and down. "I know you. You are Florian the Fool."

"I am, my lady," the other puppet answered, kneeling. "As great a fool as ever lived, and as great a knight as well."

"A fool and a knight?" said Jonquil. "I have never heard of such a thing."

"Sweet lady," said Florian, "all men are fools, and all men are knights, where women are concerned."

Florian is a gallant fool:

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A Clash of Kings - Catelyn VII

"If you say so. You and he were to wed."

"He was on his way to Riverrun when . . ." Strange, how telling it still made her throat grow tight, after all these years. ". . . when he heard about Lyanna, and went to King's Landing instead. It was a rash thing to do." She remembered how her own father had raged when the news had been brought to Riverrun. The gallant fool, was what he called Brandon.

The Knight of the Laughing Tree appears as another hedge/mystery knight outfitted in bits and pieces or a motley collection of armor:

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A Storm of Swords - Bran II

Bran nodded sagely. Mystery knights would oft appear at tourneys, with helms concealing their faces, and shields that were either blank or bore some strange device. Sometimes they were famous champions in disguise. The Dragonknight once won a tourney as the Knight of Tears, so he could name his sister the queen of love and beauty in place of the king's mistress. And Barristan the Bold twice donned a mystery knight's armor, the first time when he was only ten. "It was the little crannogman, I bet."

"No one knew," said Meera, "but the mystery knight was short of stature, and clad in ill-fitting armor made up of bits and pieces. The device upon his shield was a heart tree of the old gods, a white weirwood with a laughing red face."

So there is an association between the mystery knight as a champion of the God's Eye and Jenny's association with the CotF:

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A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys IV

"A woods witch?" Dany was astonished.

"She came to court with Jenny of Oldstones. A stunted thing, grotesque to look upon. A dwarf, most people said, though dear to Lady Jenny, who always claimed that she was one of the children of the forest."

As well as Jenny's sad sweet song and the Cotf:

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran II

"Fire burns them. Fire is always hungry."

That was not Arya's voice, nor any child's. It was a woman's voice, high and sweet, with a strange music in it like none that he had ever heard and a sadness that he thought might break his heart. Bran squinted, to see her better. It was a girl, but smaller than Arya, her skin dappled like a doe's beneath a cloak of leaves. Her eyes were queer—large and liquid, gold and green, slitted like a cat's eyes. No one has eyes like that. Her hair was a tangle of brown and red and gold, autumn colors, with vines and twigs and withered flowers woven through it.

 

 

Edited by LynnS

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32 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

And we don't really talk about Oswell Whent because we don't have all that much on him, but he was born and raised at Harrenhal. And that might actually make him a little bit more important than we think he is.

I definitely think Oswell Whent was instrumental in Rhaegar's plots. The World book lists five men among Rhaegar's supporters at court: Jon Connington, Myles Mooton, Richard Lonmouth, Lewyn Martell, and Arthur Dayne. But I think there is good reason to believe that Oswell Whent was among Rhaegar's small handful of trusted friends and confidants, and I would bet that even among that small group he was trusted, along with Rhaegar's best friend Arthur, with the most sensitive and important tasks in Rhaegar's plots.

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@LynnS and @LiveFirstDieLater, I did see the reference to Oldstones and kept it out. I read an analysis of Tristifer Mudd's sepulcher sometime ago which I thought was super awesome, but I could not find the post. I know it was pretty old though.

Going on this and that analysis of Tristifer Mudd's sepulcher, I think Oldstones is where Lyanna and Rhaegar met before they both went missing. 

But the GoHH is specifically referring to Harrenhal and not to Oldstone.

4 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I definitely think Oswell Whent was instrumental in Rhaegar's plots. The World book lists five men among Rhaegar's supporters at court: Jon Connington, Myles Mooton, Richard Lonmouth, Lewyn Martell, and Arthur Dayne. But I think there is good reason to believe that Oswell Whent was among Rhaegar's small handful of trusted friends and confidants, and I would bet that even among that small group he was trusted, along with Rhaegar's best friend Arthur, with the most sensitive and important tasks in Rhaegar's plots.

I know about this, but this surface is barely scratched, especially when we start to look at the men who were present at the ToJ. It's not by chance that we ended up with a Dayne, a Whent and a Hightower as the three men that were left there. 

Edited by Widow's Watch

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2 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

Oldstones has that ring of felled weirwood trees and a place where the old gods still linger while Harrenhal is a stone throw away from the Isle of the Faces. I think there's a connection there.

The ring of felled wierwoods is "High Heart" not "Oldstones"

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46 minutes ago, direpupy said:

The ring of felled wierwoods is "High Heart" not "Oldstones"

Yes, you're right and it didn't make sense in my head when I was typing it. Between thinking about the GoHH's vision about Vargo Hoat at Harrenhal and the Jenny of Oldstones, I got the two places confused.

 

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6 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Only two places are referred to as a "hall of kings"... Harrenhall, and Oldstones...

 

5 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

But the GoHH is specifically referring to Harrenhal and not to Oldstone.

 

8 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

And then we get this from the Ghost of High Heart and one of her visions as she talks to Beric, Tom and Lem;

In the hall of kings, the goat sits alone and fevered as the great dog descends on him. (Arya VIII, ASOS) 

The GoHH is talking about Vargo Hoat who is dying of an infection after Brienne bit his ear off, who is going to be maimed and killed by Gregor Clegane. She doesn't give us the name of the location, she only calls the location the hall of kings. And because we know she talks using sigils and other references, then the hall of kings is most definitely Harrenhal.

...

Harrenhal like Summerhall was gutted by fire. Harrenhal was gutted by dragonfire and Summerhall by wildfire. In both cases, kings died. Summerhall was a summer residence, so it would not compare to the Red Keep. Summerhall in my mind is more like Dragonstone. Kings don't live there. The dragonfire killed Harren the Black and his entire line and at Summerhall, it was Aegon V, Duncan the Small (who was no longer crown prince) and others we have yet to find out about (I am not naming Duncan the Tall here because he's not a Targaryen).

It seems likely that the Ghost of High Heart is referring to Vargo Hoat in the phrase about the fevered goat, but Penny's brother Groat is also associated with goat imagery, and Tyrion "becomes" Groat when he wears Groat's wooden armor and rides the pig in the jousting act - in which he battles a great dog named Crunch. Tyrion also sews a suit of motley and is strongly associated with fools. As for a ruin, Tyrion is attacked by a stone man at the Bridge of Dream. Is his near drowning similar to dancing with a ghost? Does death by drowning compare to the death by fire you note is part of the destruction of both Summerhall and Harrenhal?

In addition to Summerhall, Harrenhall, Oldstones and (possibly) the Bridge of Dreams, @LynnS cites a passage that raises another possible "ruin" for this set of symbols: Jon, in a woods with Ghost, passes a tree covered in white roses. That passage occurs just before he makes his first visit to the weird inhabited ruin - compared to a pile of shit - known as Craster's Keep. In the chapter summary in that link, Gilly is compared to Lyanna (asking Jon to protect her baby but also accepting Sam's cloak - a symbolic marriage - when she is already Craster's wife). We learn of the sacrifice of Craster's baby sons, which could be a symbolic "dancing with ghosts" scenario. No one literally compares Craster's Keep to a hall of kings, but Craster has a symbolic throne in the form of the only chair in the compound - everyone else sits on benches or on the floor.

Another ruin I would nominate for consideration is Winterfell, once it is burned by Ramsay Snow. One way I see this connected to the Jenny of Oldstones family of symbols is that the names Jenny and Jeyne are probably linked. So Jeyne Poole's name is not meaningless, even when she must pretend to be Arya. She is married to Ramsay Bolton, but stolen away by Theon. We also have the crypt filled with dead Stark lords and kings and often visited by Theon and the Stark children. The ghosts at Winterfell include Theon himself, and possibly snow men:

Winterfell was full of ghosts for Theon Greyjoy.

This was not the castle he remembered from the summer of his youth. This place was scarred and broken, more ruin than redoubt, a haunt of crows and corpses. (ADwD, The Prince of Winterfell)

There are ghosts in Winterfell, he thought, and I am one of them.

More snowmen had risen in the yard by the time Theon Greyjoy made his way back. (ADwD, The Turncloak)

Are the Winterfell snow men like the stone men encountered by Tyrion?

Of course, if the Jenny / Jeyne connection is true, that would raise the question of Jeyne Westerling's connection to the Jenny story. I think the next chapter for Jeyne W. will tell us how Robb's Old Stones scene plays out. Instead of flowers in her hair, Jeyne Westerling had a crown in her hair, placed there by Robb. When her mother tried to remove it, Jeyne got a cut on her forehead (we learn from a Jaime POV). To me, this signifies that Jeyne opened her third eye.

I believe that Jeyne's crown was a match for Robb's crown, which had nine longswords pointing upward and was covered in runes. (Yes, probably related to the ruins in this set of symbols. Tristifer Mudd's sepulchre and warhammer also feature runes, I believe.) But it hadn't occurred to me until you started this discussion that the sword crown instead of flowers in her hair suggests that we should be comparing swords and flowers. When a girl in Westeros comes of age, she is described as "flowering." There is probably also a set of puns around flower / flow / wolf / flour, which may reinforce the connection between menstrual blood flow and flowering, but also to ghosts. (The direwolf Ghost and Jon covered himself with flour to scare the younger Stark children that there was a ghost in the Winterfell crypt.)

But back to the OP: what can we infer about Jenny of Old Stones and her song, based on the patterns we see around ruins, a love triangle, motley, fools, ghosts, a hall of kings and a woods witch called Jenny? I think we can start to guess who the other witches are who haven't been explicitly called witches. We know that Harrenhal had a witch-like figure in Danelle Lothston. Who was the witch figure at Summerhall? Jeyne Westerling is descended from the witch-like Maggie the Frog and could easily become a witch figure in her grief and anger over the murder of Robb Stark. Gilly seems like our only candidate for the witch in Craster's Keep, if it is part of this pattern.

What about Winterfell's witch? Lady Stoneheart may be our candidate but Lyanna also "turns to stone" when her statue is placed in the Winterfell crypt. Is that witch-like? Does it connect to the "Jenny of Old Stones" name? I already guessed that the stone men on the Rhoyne River were part of the ghost symbolism. So maybe these stone Stark women are more ghostly than witch-like. Or maybe men become ghosts but women become witches? Does that leave Jeyne Poole as a witch candidate? Possibly. We will know more in the next book, I hope. Another candidate might be Osha, the wildling who took charge of Rickon Stark at the direction of Maester Luwin.

Lots of possibilities, if you're willing to examine additional examples. I believe the author wants us to compare Winterfell and the Nightfort, another ruin with ghosts. And there are other possibilities that are close, if not perfect fits for the pattern. And Jeyne Heddle, who seems like a symbolic Sansa figure (Willow is Arya) would have to be considered in the Jeyne analysis. One thing always leads to another.

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MMD quite literally danced with ghosts. Then Dany immediately in her fever dream walked a hall lined with the ghosts of kings.

The ghost lined hall is symbolic of the passage to the second life, the ghosts are outside of the beast's heart from where it is controlled, where one becomes the beast. They are those who either didn't make it or had their turn and faded and now no longer control the beast, just linger within it somewhere. The seats of king's are often reference to the beast's heart, what one reaches and second lifes.

The point of the song I do not know, but it seems to be suggesting Jenny (something the Woods Witch caused? As MMD with Dany?) and Shella can communicate/interact with those who have second lifed or the ghosts MMD danced with.

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15 hours ago, Seams said:

Who was the witch figure at Summerhall?

The wood's witch who might be a child of the forest who set into motion what happened at Summerhall? What she tells Arya about gorging on grief at Summerhall seems to put her there.

Adding to the list of broken things and something that I believe is thematically and fundamentally tied not only to Summerhall but also to the Red Waste and Dany hatching her dragons is the Tower of Joy. 

In Ned's ToJ dream, he talks about his companions, his wraiths. 

Edited by Widow's Watch

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