Davos the Dragonslayer

Walys vs. Aerys

22 posts in this topic

Aenys, Jaehaerys, Viserys, Aerys, Walys.

Walys is from family with Targaryen blood and he wanted to overthrow Aerys.

As Targaryen bastard of Winterfell he sworned to Citadel while another Targaryen bastard of Winterfell sworned to Night's Watch.

His family caused dance of dragons. He caused Robert's rebellion.

He didn't have any plan for Hightower—Stark marriage alliance. But Robert`s brothers could marry Hightower girl instead of Florents and Tyrells.

Olenna Tyrell and Rickard Stark knew each other possibly via Walys. But southron ambitions didn't include Tyrells.

Possibly Maester Walys hated Aerys who loved pyromancers.

We don't know anything about his death. So he could be Hooded man of Winterfell or the man who gave blackberries to Bran in glass gardens (purple is Targaryen eye colour and glass gardens represent glass candles of Oldtown)

Anything else we could guess about him?

Edited by Davos the Dragonslayer

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Got me wondering now if Maester Pycell is a Lannister/Hightower bastard. Possibly Tywins bastard brother?

Edit- Could this be why Pycell and Kevan were meeting up at the end of ADWD?

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Got me wondering now if Maester Pycell is a Lannister/Hightower bastard. Possibly Tywins bastard brother?

Edit- Could this be why Pycell and Kevan were meeting up at the end of ADWD?

I think Pycelle is too old. More likely a bastard uncle or cousin? 

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Do we know of any characters with names ending with -ys that aren’t Targaryens? I can only think of Lollys, although I have seen it theorised that the Stokeworths have Targaryen blood (potentially via Princess Vaella). 

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1 hour ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said:

Do we know of any characters with names ending with -ys that aren’t Targaryens? I can only think of Lollys, although I have seen it theorised that the Stokeworths have Targaryen blood (potentially via Princess Vaella).


There are a number of people who are explicitly not Targaryens. There's are also a few non-Targaryens who are clearly named after Targaryens, a few non-Targaryens who either had or are rumored to have had a Targaryen parents. But for the most part there does not appear to be anything exclusively Targaryen or Valyrian about a -ys ending.

Aenys Frey (named after Targaryen)
Alannys Harlaw
Alys Arryn
Alys Frey
Alys Karstark
Artys Arryn
Arys Oakheart
Corlys Velaryon 
Denys Arryn
Denys Darklyn
Denys Drumm
Denys Mallister
Denys Redwyne
Elys Waynwood
Elys Westerling
Grand Maester Geardys
Halys Hornwood
Harys Haigh
Harys Swyft
Kraznys mo Nakloz
Larys Strong
Lewys the Fishwife
Lewys Lydden
Lewys Piper
Lharys
Lollys Stokeworth
Maester Lomys
Maester Melwys Rivers (bastard of Walder Frey)
Viserys Plumm (Targaryen mother, and likely Targaryen father)
Maester Walys Flowers (Hightower mother, unknown Archmaester father)
Orys Baratheon (possible bastard of Aerion Targaryen)
Varys

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2 hours ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said:

I think Pycelle is too old. More likely a bastard uncle or cousin? 

I could see that. Either way it would definitely explain his loyalty, possible association still to Walys's plan and why Kevan and him were meeting up at the end of ADWD. Just speculating but i like the idea

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7 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Got me wondering now if Maester Pycell is a Lannister/Hightower bastard. Possibly Tywins bastard brother?

Edit- Could this be why Pycell and Kevan were meeting up at the end of ADWD?

Plot twist Pycelle is Aemon's twin brother

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33 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

Plot twist Pycelle is Aemon's twin brother

Not possible. Pycelle was only forty-two when he became Grand Maester under Aegon V, who died just months later in 259 AC.

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8 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Got me wondering now if Maester Pycell is a Lannister/Hightower bastard. Possibly Tywins bastard brother?

Edit- Could this be why Pycell and Kevan were meeting up at the end of ADWD?

Pycelle is decades older than Tywin, and years older than his father Tytos. I don't think Pycelle's admiration for Tywin requires or indicates Lannister ancestry. He saw Tywin essentially rule Westeros as Hand of an unstable king for what seems to have been two pretty peaceful and prosperous decades.

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3 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:


There are a number of people who are explicitly not Targaryens. There's are also a few non-Targaryens who are clearly named after Targaryens, a few non-Targaryens who either had or are rumored to have had a Targaryen parents. But for the most part there does not appear to be anything exclusively Targaryen or Valyrian about a -ys ending.

Aenys Frey (named after Targaryen)
Alannys Harlaw
Alys Arryn
Alys Frey
Alys Karstark
Artys Arryn
Arys Oakheart
Corlys Velaryon 
Denys Arryn
Denys Darklyn
Denys Drumm
Denys Mallister
Denys Redwyne
Elys Waynwood
Elys Westerling
Grand Maester Geardys
Halys Hornwood
Harys Haigh
Harys Swyft
Kraznys mo Nakloz
Larys Strong
Lewys the Fishwife
Lewys Lydden
Lewys Piper
Lharys
Lollys Stokeworth
Maester Lomys
Maester Melwys Rivers (bastard of Walder Frey)
Viserys Plumm (Targaryen mother, and likely Targaryen father)
Maester Walys Flowers (Hightower mother, unknown Archmaester father)
Orys Baratheon (possible bastard of Aerion Targaryen)
Varys

Ok that was quite an oversight on my part, looks like there’s no evidence for Walys being a Targaryen. 

Unless they’re all secret Targaryens of course...

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1 hour ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Pycelle is decades older than Tywin, and years older than his father Tytos. I don't think Pycelle's admiration for Tywin requires or indicates Lannister ancestry. He saw Tywin essentially rule Westeros as Hand of an unstable king for what seems to have been two pretty peaceful and prosperous decades.

I do think it’s interesting that Pycelle’s house has never been mentioned, there could be something interesting there.

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1 hour ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Not possible. Pycelle was only forty-two when he became Grand Maester under Aegon V, who died just months later in 259 AC.

He lies about his age and uses really good skincare creams.

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31 minutes ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said:

Ok that was quite an oversight on my part, looks like there’s no evidence for Walys being a Targaryen. 

Walys's mother is from Hightowers which have Targaryen blood.

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18 minutes ago, Davos the Dragonslayer said:

Walys's mother is from Hightowers which have Targaryen blood.

There’s no certainty here. Baelor’s name and Alerie’s silver hair hint at it (one of Aegon V’s sisters probably married Lord Hightower) but there’s no confirmation. 

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10 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Pycelle is decades older than Tywin, and years older than his father Tytos. I don't think Pycelle's admiration for Tywin requires or indicates Lannister ancestry. He saw Tywin essentially rule Westeros as Hand of an unstable king for what seems to have been two pretty peaceful and prosperous decades.

Except Martin has already hinted at a deeper reason for Pycelle's loyalty, he just hasnt told it yet he said. So it's more than his admiration for Tywin. May be not be a family connection, but it's more than that. 

Pycell is too old after looking to be his brother but that still doesn't rule out a family tie either. 

11 hours ago, Tygett Lannister said:

Plot twist Pycelle is Aemon's twin brother

I did notice that they were close in age. Off by like 2 decades tho. Though that would definitely surprise me haha 

All the maesters got me tripped out. Cressen is spoken of by Walgrave who may be Walys father. Cressen was 80ish when he died. Walgrave is old and crazy but is he Cressen old, or Aemon old? Cause Cressen could either be Walgrave's other son and brother to Walys, or he was brother to Walgrave maybe? Pycell is also Cressen's age (pycell is 3 years older) . So Cressen, Pycell and Walys are all possibly of an age with each other. Maester Luwins age is unknown but im guessing he's Cressens age possibly, not likely Aemon's age. So possibly Luwin, Pycell, Cressen and Walys are all of an age with each other and players during Robert's Rebellion.

Edit- It is very interesting though that Walys is the only one to die during the rebellion. With Luwin following Caitlynn to Winterfell as Cressen followed Stannis to Dragonstone, despite their loyalty supposed to be to the Castle, not the lord. 

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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9 hours ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said:

Ok that was quite an oversight on my part, looks like there’s no evidence for Walys being a Targaryen. 

Unless they’re all secret Targaryens of course...

Check my earlier post in this thread. TWOIAF suggest as much, at least of House Gardener who come from Garth. House Hightower wed Garth's daughter Maris the Maid. 

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8 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Except Martin has already hinted at a deeper reason for Pycelle's loyalty, he just hasnt told it yet he said. So it's more than his admiration for Tywin. May be not be a family connection, but it's more than that. 

Pycell is too old after looking to be his brother but that still doesn't rule out a family tie either. 

Pycelle joined the Small Council in the last few months of the reign of Aegon V, probably in 259 AC. Aerys's first act in 262 AC was to name Tywin his Hand. Tywin had just put down the Reynes and Tarbecks late in 261 AC. After serving with Tywin on the Small Council for two years, Pycelle wrote to the Citadel that the gods had made and shaped Tywin to rule. Was that just being a homer for a fellow Lannister? I don't see it. And if that is how he felt two years in, his regard for Tywin must have only grown greater with all of the things he did as Hand over the next eighteen years. I think it is more plausible that Pycelle belonged to an anti-Targaryen faction of Maesters, and that he genuinely believed Tywin would be an ideal king in place of the Targaryens. Was his loyalty to Tywin genuine? I believe so. But I think his ultimately loyalty was likely to an anti-Targaryen faction at the Citadel.

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3 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Pycelle joined the Small Council in the last few months of the reign of Aegon V, probably in 259 AC. Aerys's first act in 262 AC was to name Tywin his Hand. Tywin had just put down the Reynes and Tarbecks late in 261 AC. After serving with Tywin on the Small Council for two years, Pycelle wrote to the Citadel that the gods had made and shaped Tywin to rule. Was that just being a homer for a fellow Lannister? I don't see it. And if that is how he felt two years in, his regard for Tywin must have only grown greater with all of the things he did as Hand over the next eighteen years. I think it is more plausible that Pycelle belonged to an anti-Targaryen faction of Maesters, and that he genuinely believed Tywin would be an ideal king in place of the Targaryens. Was his loyalty to Tywin genuine? I believe so. But I think his ultimately loyalty was likely to an anti-Targaryen faction at the Citadel.

Quite possible. 

Aside from the Lannister bit, the age of them all about seems the same still. Walrave and Aemon being the oldest and the other 4 being of an age with each other with Walys at least possibly being a child of Walgrave. Cressen being mentioned by Walgrave makes me wonder. 

If Pycell isn't part of the Southern ambitions, it is a giant coincidence that he still is opposing the Targaryens. Which if true would suggest different factions of the Citadel all wanting to bring down the Targaryens. Dragons or no.

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I suppose it is possible there were multiple anti-Targ factions at the Citadel, but I don't see why there would be, and think that sounds convoluted. I don't see the Starks, Baratheons, Arryns, Tullys, or Lannisters as having consciously taken part in any plot against the Targaryens. Barbrey makes some good points in general about the Citadel and maesters, but I think she gives Walys too much credit for Rickard's ambitions, and I think most peoples' interpretations of what Rickard's ambitions actually were couldn't be further from the truth. The last people you would have plotted against the Targs with would have been Steffon Baratheon and Tywin Lannister, even after the relationship between Tywin and Aerys had deteriorated. The Baratheons were as close to the Targs as it got, and Tywin himself was still trying to marry with the Targs up until Aerys named Jaime to the KG, long after their relationship had deteriorated. I think Tywin would have gladly contributed to replacing Aerys with Rhaegar, but overthrowing the Targs? I don't think that entered the equation for him until well into the war, perhaps even weeks before the Sack.

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