Freys Injustice

What if Ned Stark attempted to install Jon Snow as King after the TOJ?

51 posts in this topic

I guess if he tried, Jon will be killed by Robert and himself would take the black for the best. 

They just overthrew House Targaryen to seek justice and revenge. Why would he try to install another Targ king? Not to mention Jon Snow is a bastard anyway. (Even Lyanna somehow married Rhaegar, in the eyes of most people, Jon is still a bastard.)

 

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Ned would have absolutly no support in the attempt and also he would make Robert and Jon Arryn enemeis which is just dumb, besides as someone said above they litterally just got done a war with the point of REMOVING the Targs from power installing another doesnt seem very smart. 

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31 minutes ago, Freys Injustice said:

It would be the honorable thing to do.

Why would he start a rebellion to re-install the same family he had just rebelled against and overthrown? 

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29 minutes ago, Freys Injustice said:

It would be the honorable thing to do.

How do you figure that? Ned fought in Robert's name under Robert's banner so staying loyal to that cause strikes me as more honourable. Loving his sister and her child doesn't mean Ned was honour-bound to make his nephew king ahead of the man he was already pledged to as the next king.

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That's the worst thing Ned could have done.

Jon is a newborn, he would have just outed that secret. The war just ended and even if he succeeds when he presses Jon's claim, Jon would need a regent for 16 years before he can actually start ruling in his own right. That means Ned might have had to stay in KL with his nephew which I'm sure was the last thing he wanted. 

There are still Targaryen loyalists, but I can't imagine anyone is in good shape to fight again. The Tyrells have just bent the knee, Tywin Lannister just had two small children killed, Dorne would probably still rally behind Viserys instead of Jon. As always, the riverlands pay the heavy toll whenever there's a war because the region gets savaged. That leaves just the north and even that is uncertain.

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1 hour ago, Freys Injustice said:

It would be the honorable thing to do.

It would not, because Jon is not in the line of succession.  Jon has no rights to the throne.  He's a bastard.  Aerys transferred the line of inheritance to Viserys, thus Rhaegar's family lost any claim they have on the throne. 

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I am not sure how honorable it would be, but having the nest king being a minor, your ward and your nephew might look very profittable to someone more ruthless and/or opportunistic.

However, it would also mean fot the war-fatugued Ned putting the newborn son of his dear and deceased sister at great risk, while making his best friend and brother-in-arms both an enemy and a ruin of a man by learning his betrothed eloped with his most hated foe.And all that while spilling even more blood in the process.

No, it takes a Tywinto do thatand Ned was not. Honorable or not, sometimes you have to disregard whatever honor or law dictates for the greater good and, to his eternal praise, Ned chose to end that sorry bussiness of a war then and there.

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It wouldn’t work because you have to proverbially kill the boy to let the man be born. Experience leads to wisdom. 

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5 hours ago, Freys Injustice said:

It would be the honorable thing to do.

No it would be the dumb thing to do. Robert Baratheon was the symbol to the end of a tyrannical dynasty, 5/8 of Westeros made it clear they wanted the Targaryens gone and Ned being the honourable and just man he is knows that. 

Edited by Pikachu101

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It's possible that Lyanna didn't knew about death of her father and brother, about Robert's rebellion, and about reason why Rhaegar had to leave her alone in TofJ. Maybe Rhaegar haven't told her anything, because she was pregnant, and he didn't wanted her to worry, if it could be avoided. Though when Ned came to TofJ, Lyanna was dying, she gave Jon to her brother, and asked him to protect Jon from Robert.

And maybe she also told Ned that her son is the Prince that was promised, and that one day he will become ruler of 7K. So she asked Ned to promise her, that he will raise him to become a good King. Ned promised, but because it was too dangerous to reveal to anyone, who the baby really is, he claimed him as his son, and raised him to be just a good person, instead of a good King. Maybe he didn't believed in the prophecy. Or he thought that if the prophecy is real, then one day Jon will become King. And if Ned will raise him to be a good person, then he will also be a good King. 

He left everything for fate to decide what will be.

Edited by Megorova

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9 hours ago, Lemon of Lemonwood Rises said:

but having the nest king being a minor, your ward and your nephew might look very profittable to someone more ruthless and/or opportunistic.

 

9 hours ago, Lemon of Lemonwood Rises said:

it takes a Tywin to do that and Ned was not.

It would be interesting to see how Tywin would have dealt with things if it had been Cersei instead of Lyanna who was "kidnapped" by Rhaegar. If it was Tywin who came upon the ToJ where Cersei had just birthed a child that was fathered by Rhaegar. Would Tywin claim him as his bastard and wait for a time to put him on the Throne?  Would he reach out to the Tyrells and offer a marriage between his grandson and Margaery? A lot of ifs I know but if anyone could pull it off it would be Tywin Lannister.

I doubt it ever even crossed Ned's mind to do anything with Jon other then keeping him hidden in the North, whether Ned considered him true born or not.

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2 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

I doubt it ever even crossed Ned's mind to do anything with Jon other then keeping him hidden in the North, whether Ned considered him true born or not.

When it comes to Ned's relationship with Jon I don't think he knew what to do with him. When he was leaving for King's Landing he just expected Jon to hang around Winterfell with 0 future prospects, it was Jon who took the initiative to join the NW. Honestly I would love to know what Ned was planning on doing with his nephew because he certainly wasn't going to crown him.

Edited by Pikachu101

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3 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

 

It would be interesting to see how Tywin would have dealt with things if it had been Cersei instead of Lyanna who was "kidnapped" by Rhaegar. If it was Tywin who came upon the ToJ where Cersei had just birthed a child that was fathered by Rhaegar. Would Tywin claim him as his bastard and wait for a time to put him on the Throne?  Would he reach out to the Tyrells and offer a marriage between his grandson and Margaery? A lot of ifs I know but if anyone could pull it off it would be Tywin Lannister.

I doubt it ever even crossed Ned's mind to do anything with Jon other then keeping him hidden in the North, whether Ned considered him true born or not.

I think that was his third plan if Elia did not die in chilbirth and Cersei didn't get betrothed to Viserys:

  • get Cersei in Rhaegar's bed, preferably in a discrete manner 
  • have an "untreatable illness" befall Elia (she is known to be frail afterall, and there is always Pycelle to make sure she doesn't have a pesky recovery)
  • get the two lovebirds married
  • maybe some years later have little Aegon die in a tragic, but unsuspicious accident?

Even if Cersei got "kidnapped", I doubt Tywin would fight against the Iron Throne. Most likely he would remain loyal and make sure Elia and at least Aegon would die to pave the way for his own grandchild. Again,"illness" is probably preferable to cold-blooded murder. Or else Elia "kills" her son in her grief for her seperation and then takes her own life. 

I wouldn't even put it past him to fabricate proof of a desolution (on the grounds of sparing Elia's health by relieving her of her marital duties mayde?) and a subsequent marriage to Cersei to solidify his grandchild's claim.

On Ned and Jon, maybe when he just got the newborn in his arms all he thought was hide the boy and save him, but on a longer term plan, either the Wall, or a small hold in the repopulated Gift with a purposely modest match would be both viable solutions. I doubt he would just have him wasting his time around, especially if the boy showed promise.

Edited by Lemon of Lemonwood Rises

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@Lemon of Lemonwood Rises 100% agree. Tywin didn't love Cersei the way Rickard and Brandon loved Lyanna, if Rhaegar whisked Cersei away then he'd wait for them to come back and demand they marry after Elia and Aegon accidently die. Barba Bracken and her father attempted this so I can see Tywin trying something similar. 

 

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17 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Why would he start a rebellion to re-install the same family he had just rebelled against and overthrown? 

It is not the family it was the problem but Aerys. Better question is why would he install a newborn baby as King.

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5 hours ago, Pikachu101 said:

When [Ned] was leaving for King's Landing he just expected Jon to hang around Winterfell with 0 future prospects, it was Jon who took the initiative to join the NW.

And a good thing Jon did, because Catelyn told Ned that she would not have Jon at Winterfell after Ned was gone. She wanted him out and gone, having tolerated Jon all those years. Ned was horrified by Cat's anger, but Cat was concerned that, as long as Jon existed, he posed a threat to HER children inheriting Winterfell. She was mollified by Jon wanting to take the black, and thus be permanently and officially out of the line of succession.

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3 hours ago, Tygett Lannister said:

It is not the family it was the problem but Aerys. Better question is why would he install a newborn baby as King.

They didn't just overthrow Aerys, they overthrew House Targaryen. And actually, Ned Stark seems like exactly the sort of guy that would insist on installing a newborn baby as king if they were the true heir and successor, even if it likely meant a long and difficult regency. But he rejected House Targaryen and accepted Robert Baratheon as his king. It makes no sense that he would rebel against Robert to make Jon king, even if Jon were a legitimate son of Rhaegar Targaryen.

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No one would support a baby for a King. However. I do wonder however, was he more afraid for Baby Jon from Robert or Tywin?

What if Ned returned to King's Landing with Lyanna's body, which I think Robert saw before she was brought home for burial and told him, Hoster, Jon Arryn and who ever else that this is Rheagar and Lyanna's child, legit or not. Also, I am taking him home to raise him. He could still be removed by Assembly or council as King, and thereby removing a threat against the babe, saving his honor with Cat and Jon having a happier childhood. Robb, not whitnessing Jon's treatment by his mother, grows up and does not fall into a potential Honeytrap like he did etc.

Just come out and say the truth. a few ways this could have gone but he made the choice he did and that is it.

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