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Sexual Assault Scandals 3- the Fempire Strikes Back


Kelli Fury

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3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

The other part that is funny is that because women have been taught to control these urges from early on, men assume these urges don't exist. Or if they do, they're obviously SO much weaker than men's urges that women just can't possibly understand what it's like to want to fuck everything that they see. 

When the reality is closer to women being a lot more like men, but also being taught at a very early age that they must regulate their emotions - not only theirs, but they are also somehow responsible for other men's emotions and actions too. 

Yep.

2 minutes ago, Theda Baratheon said:

This just seems entirely hetero normative and honestly B.S tbh with you. Just another way to excuse bad behaviour "well men are just hardwired that way!" What about all the various cultures throughout history where the prevailng belief was that women had the highest libido and were the most lustful? Just gonna forget about them because they don' fit the narrative of men as sex crazed animals barely keeping it together and when they do its a big achievement lol? 

Just quoting my response lest it gets lost as the past post on the page lol

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4 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Menz said that she and her husband met Franken at the fair, and she asked her husband to snap a photo of the two of them.

"It'd be like being walking through the mall and some random person grabbing your butt. You just feel gross. Like ew, I want to wash that off of me."



What horror and revulsion looks like:
 http://media.breitbart.com/media/2017/11/lindsay-menz-640x480.jpg

 

/I don't know. The husband is taking the picture. This was snapped prior to him grabbing her ass? The husband is totally clueless as to what's going on? Having trouble with this one.

Have you seen none of the photos of Weinstein with his victims?

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1 minute ago, Eggegg said:

I don’t believe women are quite as visually led as men, and tend to value other characteristics a little more than men do. But then I’m a man so I can only speak from my own experience. 

It is true that men tend to be more visually pornographic than women - or more accurately, that testosterone causes brains to think more pornographically (there's a few really cool studies about this with trans men and their very different views of attraction pre and post treatment). There's very little evidence about 'value other characteristics' though. 

But again, doesn't matter, because this isn't about finding things attractive or not; this is about what is and isn't acceptable behavior to exhibit. And as @Theda Baratheon points out above, this is entirely a cultural phenomenon that has massive variations across groups. 

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1 hour ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

Let me ask you this: would you let any of your male friends, particularly heterosexual male friends, stay in your room as you undressed?

I've shared hotel rooms and undressed in front of both heterosexual female friends and gay/bisexual male friends. Never gave it a second thought. Strangely, nobody got carried away, largely because in each case we were absolutely clear beforehand that the arrangement was entirely platonic and so we were able, somehow, to resist our apparently hardwired programming and show respect for each other as individuals. 

49 minutes ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

Really? Do you have a reference?

Yes.

49 minutes ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

You are arguing with me. I never asked you to explain the law in the U.K. or the reason it's that way. You sought to question my argument that harassment has to comprise of repeated behavior by arguing semantics. And I'm all for it, but let's call it what it is.

Indeed: your response showed that you're all for semantics. But it seriously can't blow your mind to find that people have different definitions of a word than you do.

49 minutes ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

I doubt those definitions are commonly used.

Doubt away.

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2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

While he's victimizing them? No. And this is a completely different dynamic, right? This is not his employee. 

They weren't in a lot of cases, either. 

And yeah, it's very easy to miss someone grabbing someone else's ass. It's not like he gave her a rim job at the fair or anything. 

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6 minutes ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

Okay. Have you ever let any of your male friends, again particularly heterosexual, glance at you while disrobing, and have you ever glanced at them while they were disrobing?

Ew can we stop this line of questioning now it's getting proper sketchy aye 

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6 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

It is true that men tend to be more visually pornographic than women - or more accurately, that testosterone causes brains to think more pornographically (there's a few really cool studies about this with trans men and their very different views of attraction pre and post treatment). There's very little evidence about 'value other characteristics' though. 

But again, doesn't matter, because this isn't about finding things attractive or not; this is about what is and isn't acceptable behavior to exhibit. And as @Theda Baratheon points out above, this is entirely a cultural phenomenon that has massive variations across groups. 

My comment was initially in response to Dr Pepper who stated that society was making men sexualise women. I believe that heterosexual men will always sexualise women because they are built to do that. I never argued that you can’t stop men harassing or mistreating women.

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1 minute ago, Theda Baratheon said:

Ew can we stop this line of questioning now it's getting proper sketchy aye 

He's going to start asking about what you think about when you masturbate ANY second now

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Just now, Eggegg said:

My comment was initially in response to Dr Pepper who stated that society was making men sexualise women. I believe that heterosexual men will always sexualise women because they are built to do that. I never argued that you can’t stop men harassing or mistreating women.

What she was referring to is objectifying women explicitly, and externally. No one is trying to keep your little fantasies about sun dresses away. Just your ability to get away with taking pictures of them up-skirt.

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3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

They weren't in a lot of cases, either. 

And yeah, it's very easy to miss someone grabbing someone else's ass. It's not like he gave her a rim job at the fair or anything. 

Really? The vast majority of these women were in show business in one form or another, so even if they weren't directly working for him at the time, they may have hoped to work with him at some point. Also, he had the power to blackball actresses/actors from other studios as well. He had that kind of power.

Yeah, I could see how the husband might miss it, but she's just going to stand there and smile while he fondles her butt?    

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2 minutes ago, mormont said:

I've shared hotel rooms and undressed in front of both heterosexual female friends and gay/bisexual male friends. Never gave it a second thought. Strangely, nobody got carried away, largely because in each case we were absolutely clear beforehand that the arrangement was entirely platonic and so we were able, somehow, to resist our apparently hardwired programming and show respect for each other as individuals.

Yes, and that's a very detailed account of what you thought. But I'm not talking about one-side prospects here.

4 minutes ago, mormont said:

Yes.

Do you mind providing that reference?

5 minutes ago, mormont said:

Indeed: your response showed that you're all for semantics. But it seriously can't blow your mind to find that people have different definitions of a word than you do.

No, it doesn't. But my argument isn't based on the existence of other definitions. If I remember correctly, I acknowledged the U.K.'s definition and qualified it as nonsensical. That's the argument, not that it "blows my mind" that other definitions exist.

10 minutes ago, mormont said:

Doubt away.

I will.

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10 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Really? The vast majority of these women were in show business in one form or another, so even if they weren't directly working for him at the time, they may have hoped to work with him at some point. Also, he had the power to blackball actresses/actors from other studios as well. He had that kind of power.

He didn't just do it to actresses. And keep in mind that this kind of power dynamic exists everywhere. 

10 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, I could see how the husband might miss it, but she's just going to stand there and smile while he fondles her butt?    

You...really don't understand what women have had to deal with, do you?

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1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

He didn't just do it to actresses. And keep in mind that this kind of power dynamic exists everywhere. 

You...really don't understand what women have had to deal with, do you?

How does that power dynamic exist between a politician and a fan who wants a picture at a State Fair?

Why would you put up with that if you were grossed out, as she says she was? There's literally no upside outside of the photo. There's no downside to pulling away and expressing disgust other than she doesn't get the photo. There's no power dynamic at work here.

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I'm curious what people think of this NY Times reporter....who has made many statements supporting women and condemning harassment....and is now accused of..... let us say...... inappropriate behavior.

Is he your garden variety hypocrite, who says all the right things in public but keeps hitting on 20 year olds and then spreading gossip about them?  Or did he see his behavior as somehow not across the line?  Was he misreading signals?

I might give him the benefit of the doubt except for the multiple women who say he hit on them, they declined and then he gossiped about them, reversing the roles and making the woman out as the aggressor...that's ugly.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/20/16678094/glenn-thrush-new-york-times

 

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36 minutes ago, Theda Baratheon said:

This just seems entirely hetero normative and honestly B.S tbh with you. Just another way to excuse bad behaviour "well men are just hardwired that way!" What about all the various cultures throughout history where the prevailng belief was that women had the highest libido and were the most lustful? Just gonna forget about them because they don' fit the narrative of men as sex crazed animals barely keeping it together and when they do its a big achievement lol? 

Which culture was the Western European culture until relatively recently (like late 18th, 19th C recently).  

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1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

How does that power dynamic exist between a politician and a fan who wants a picture at a State Fair?

Really? He's her state representative, with massive amounts of power over her life. How would it not?

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Why would you put up with that if you were grossed out, as she says she was? There's literally no upside outside of the photo. There's no downside to pulling away and expressing disgust other than she doesn't get the photo. There's no power dynamic at work here.

Okay, I'm going to fill you in on something: women are taught from a very early age to put up with that. And they largely do. They are taught not to speak up about it, they are taught not to confront, they are taught not to disobey. ESPECIALLY when a man in power does it. 

You don't make a big deal, you don't make a scene, you don't do any of those things unless your life is in danger. 

What you DO do, instead, is you take it in at the time and then tell your friends and family about it. 

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Just now, Kalbear said:

Really? He's her state representative, with massive amounts of power over her life. How would it not?

Okay, I'm going to fill you in on something: women are taught from a very early age to put up with that. And they largely do. They are taught not to speak up about it, they are taught not to confront, they are taught not to disobey. ESPECIALLY when a man in power does it. 

You don't make a big deal, you don't make a scene, you don't do any of those things unless your life is in danger. 

What you DO do, instead, is you take it in at the time and then tell your friends and family about it. 

No, he's not her rep. She's from Texas actually. 

 

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