Sexual Assault Scandals 3- the Fempire Strikes Back

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

24 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Except voting for Trump? That's kind of a huge qualifier, isn't it? 

So, her posts on Facebook in 2010 were for political effect?

[polishgenius]

6 minutes ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

Expectations are thoughts, not acts.

 

I have lots of women friends- I make friends easier with women than men for some reason- and while there are definitely some I quite fancy I have no sexual expectations in my relationships with any of them, and am perfectly capable of being friends even with the ones I do have a thing for. And for many of them there's no sexual/potentially sexual element to the relationship at all.

(tbh I'm more likely to go the other way- at least one of those friendships stopped pretty certainly because I didn't make any advances when, looking back, she really quite definitely wanted me to. Although there work/positioning reasons as to why I didn't, in that particular one).

[Ormond]

1 minute ago, Warlock of Quarth said:

Really? The most contested Senate election in recent memory (won by Franken by 225 votes after a grueling campaign and recount that was widely reported on in both local and national media) and 'she believes she has voted for Franken as well, but is not sure'? That seems somewhat... unlikely, but well...

This is not unlikely at all for someone who isn't very interested in politics. There is no indication at this point that this woman or any of her relatives are political activists in any way. And again, there is written evidence from 2010 that she told people about this right after it happened. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

So, her posts on Facebook in 2010 were for political effect?

They don't appear to be, no. And I'm not even saying she isn't to be believed if she is Republican/Conservative/Whatever. I'm just saying if she cast a vote for Trump, she's likely Righty at the very least.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

They don't appear to be, no. And I'm not even saying she isn't to be believed if she is Republican/Conservative/Whatever. I'm just saying if she cast a vote for Trump, she's likely Righty at the very least.

You know I don't like Trump but does voting for Trump mean you are subject to sexual harrassment without recourse or defense?  Hell, Sen. Franken didn't claim it was a misunderstanding or that it didn't happen he just said he doesn't remember it.  If it wasn't something he ever did wouldn't it make more sense to say, "I never do things like that so even if I don't remember... it didn't happen"?

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

8 minutes ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

You've confused the point. I'm not talking about action; I'm talking about expectations:

Expectations are thoughts, not acts.

I guess I just  disagree with that.

Actually, I disagree with both parts. A thought is "X looks hot in his tighty-whities"

an expectation is "we're sharing bed, so she is going to have sex with me"  the second doesn't leave room for a difference of opinion.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

7 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

You know I don't like Trump but does voting for Trump mean you are subject to sexual harrassment without recourse or defense?  Hell, Sen. Franken didn't claim it was a misunderstanding or that it didn't happen he just said he doesn't remember it.  If it wasn't something he ever did wouldn't it make more sense to say, "I never do things like that so even if I don't remember... it didn't happen"?

Of course not, I'm not even remotely suggesting that. I was simply pushing back on the idea that her politics were flip-floppy had she voted for Trump. The more I think about it though, I suppose Kalbear has a point with his Texas comment. Given that illegal immigration is such a hot-button topic in that state, I suppose it wouldn't be entirely out of the ordinary for someone who was independent or even Dem to be attracted to Trump's bombastic Mexican position.

[Mother Cocanuts]

11 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 

I have lots of women friends- I make friends easier with women than men for some reason- and while there are definitely some I quite fancy I have no sexual expectations in my relationships with any of them, and am perfectly capable of being friends even with the ones I do have a thing for. And for many of them there's no sexual/potentially sexual element to the relationship at all.

Let me ask: you're friends with them; you're attracted to some of them. Why don't you have any sexual expectations of your interactions with them?

16 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

(tbh I'm more likely to go the other way- at least one of those friendships stopped pretty certainly because I didn't make any advances when, looking back, she really quite definitely wanted me to. Although there work/positioning reasons as to why I didn't, in that particular one).

This in part informs my point.

[polishgenius]

Just now, Mother Cocanuts said:

Let me ask: you're friends with them; you're attracted to some of them. Why don't you have any sexual expectations of your interactions with them?

I dunno. Coz I'm not a chode?

 

 

Just now, Mother Cocanuts said:

This in part informs my point.

No it doesn't. No-one's saying that no woman-man relationships have expectations or implications of a potentially sexual nature. Just that it's not implicit in them.

[OldGimletEye]

23 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

You know I don't like Trump but does voting for Trump mean you are subject to sexual harrassment without recourse or defense?  Hell, Sen. Franken didn't claim it was a misunderstanding or that it didn't happen he just said he doesn't remember it.  If it wasn't something he ever did wouldn't it make more sense to say, "I never do things like that so even if I don't remember... it didn't happen"?

Well, obviously I can’t stand Trump either. But, I do know people that voted Trump. And while I find their reasons for voting for Trump to be nonsensical and incoherent, the fact is that many of them wouldn’t just make up baseless or fraudulent accusations.

So who she voted for, has about no probative value in this matter. Plus she’s got some pretty damning evidence too (not that I wouldn’t believe her if she didn’t).

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

9 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Of course not, I'm not even remotely suggesting that. I was simply pushing back on the idea that her politics were flip-floppy had she voted for Trump. The more I think about it though, I suppose Kalbear has a point with his Texas comment. Given that illegal immigration is such a hot-button topic in that state, I suppose it wouldn't be entirely out of the ordinary for someone who was independent or even Dem to be attracted to Trump's bombastic Mexican position.

I do understand the desire to defend people you tend to agree with politically, but, that doesn't mean they don't sometimes do disgusting stuff.

[Mudguard]

2 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

How does that power dynamic exist between a politician and a fan who wants a picture at a State Fair?

Why would you put up with that if you were grossed out, as she says she was? There's literally no upside outside of the photo. There's no downside to pulling away and expressing disgust other than she doesn't get the photo. There's no power dynamic at work here.

Have you seen the half a dozen or so photos that George H.W. Bush took with women while grabbing their ass?  Each one of those women acted very similarly to the women accusing Franken of grabbing her ass.  They didn't confront the ass grabber and instead just told people close to them.  At least Bush had the decency to admit to his guilt, and didn't use the "I don't remember" excuse.

[Darth Richard II]

Good Lord.

1. STOP SHAMING THE VICTIM WHY ARE WE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION AGAIN WHAT THE FUCK

ahem

2.

Mother Nuts here is a known troll who got the previous sexual assault thread shut down because he thought it was ok to grab someone's junk without consent and he puts people who call him on his shit on ignore to the point where he ends up talking to himself. For the love of Crom, jus't don't engage with the asshat.

[Darth Richard II]

12 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

I dunno. Coz I'm not a chode?

[Deedles]

Re the disrobing, may I suggest that MC never goes to a German, or Finnish, sauna. Nudity is expected, both sexes will sit happily for 10-15 minutes, looking at nothing in particular. You bring a towel, but only to sit on. 

 

Similarly, nudist beaches around Europe. 

 

Re single episode vs repeat episodes, years ago to take a non random example, it was the company Xmas party. My line manager got drunk. Felt the need to tell me how he wanted to have sex with me, wanted to have anal, wanted to see me on my knees etc etc. the first time he came over to me that evening, he was crude but not to that level. I reminded him he was married with kids, I want interested, and went off to talk to the girls. The second time that night, I was getting a drink for me. It was cruder, again I said not interested, he was married etc. I decided to leave. Got a taxi home without telling as I just wanted to go. He rang mewhile I was in the cab and was filthy. I hung up. He rang again. I hung up. 

 

To be fair, he did text the following day and said sorry. On the Monday, he apologized in person. I genuinely do feel he was remorseful.

 

However, I never felt comfortable in his presence again. One to one meetings were excruciating. We agreed that I should move line managers and I did. 

 

So, it was one night. Was I harassed? I feel I was. But it was one night only (I also made sure I was never out in a social setting with him again).

[Mother Cocanuts]

13 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

I guess I just  disagree with that.

Actually, I disagree with both parts. A thought is "X looks hot in his tighty-whities"

an expectation is "we're sharing bed, so she is going to have sex with me"  the second doesn't leave room for a difference of opinion.

Yes, but "we're sharing a bed, so she is going to have sex with me" is still a thought. You're right: there's no room for a difference in opinion there. Until it manifests through action, it is still just a thought.

5 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

I dunno. Coz I'm not a chode?

So having sexual expectations of a friend whom you find attractive is metaphorically being a "chode"? Why?

8 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

No it doesn't. No-one's saying that no woman-man relationships have expectations or implications of a potentially sexual nature. Just that it's not implicit in them.

Never implied or suggested that you or anyone made that argument. If you're arguing conversely that male and female relationships do not implicitly denote sexual expectations, you need to do more than just say, "No it doesn't." I'm not using your example to suggest this alone informs my point. (That's why I said it "in part" informs my point.) You submitted yourselves as examples. That's the reason I've been prodding you.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

What is a "Chode"?  I've never seen that word before.

MC

So having sexual expectations of a friend whom you find attractive is metaphorically being a "chode"? Why?

If you aren't already in a romantic relationship with that person?  Because it's pretty disgusting to expect that because you are temporarily sharing a living space with someone that it somehow means, without any prior expectation, that you are entitled to have sex with that person.  It turns a friend who you see as a human being into nothing more than an object of sexual desire.  

It's a betrayal of trust.

[Darth Richard II]

Yeah but would MC feel comfortable abroad without his assault rifles?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I hate to say it because I know him, but Franken is probably finished. I still don’t think the two things he’s been accused of, in a vacuum, should be enough to force him to resign, but I suspect there will be more accusers in the days and weeks to come.

[Week]

7 minutes ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

Yes, but "we're sharing a bed, so she is going to have sex with me" is still a thought. You're right: there's no room for a difference in opinion there. Until it manifests through action, it is still just a thought.

So having sexual expectations of a friend whom you find attractive is metaphorically being a "chode"? Why?

Never implied or suggested that you or anyone made that argument. If you're arguing conversely that male and female relationships do not implicitly denote sexual expectations, you need to do more than just say, "No it doesn't." I'm not using your example to suggest this alone informs my point. (That's why I said it "in part" informs my point.) You submitted yourselves as examples. That's the reason I've been prodding you.

7/10 rating for this performance of rape culture. It's lacking in subtlety.