Sexual Assault Scandals 3- the Fempire Strikes Back

[Dr. Pepper]

 

1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, I saw that pic posted up earlier in another thread. It just boggles my mind in both circumstances. I can't understand why someone like Swift would put up with that sort of shit, or why the Franken accuser would either, but I have to admit that this seems to be a fairly common reaction, at least initially.

Yeah, why would any victim put up with being victimized?  There shouldn't be any victims, then, amirite.

You are so incredibly fucking privileged it's blinding.

 

[ants]

9 hours ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

 

That's nonsensical. Any form of initiated contact can be construed or misconstrued as sexual. I think harassment loses its weight if the element of re-occurrence is discarded, as well as any clearly established dissent. This is far too broad a parameter, even for the U.K.

 

In Australia one incident can also be harassment.  

[Mother Cocanuts]

4 minutes ago, ants said:

In Australia one incident can also be harassment.  

Not surprising. There are instances where particularly Australia has mimicked U.K. law.

[Dr. Pepper]

1 hour ago, mankytoes said:

 

It's sad that sexual attraction is talked about so negatively (not by you, generally). I'm going through some shit at the moment, but I saw a really hot girl, and it just brightened my day up a little. Thanks to all those beautiful people out there making the world a better place.

 

Sexual attraction isn't spoken about negatively.  In fact this is probably the most sex positive period in modern times (western culture).  What's talked about negatively is when sexuality is acted upon in a way that violates the bodily autonomy of another person.  Those sexually attracted to children, for example.  Those who grope, those who harass, etc.  I have no idea why you think you aren't allowed to notice attractive people (assuming these were adult females and not actually girls) so long as you aren't doing something that violates them in some way.  It's creepy what you wrote, but what's in a stranger's head when he or she walks by me doesn't matter to me if they aren't acting it out in some way.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 hour ago, kairparavel said:

But it makes sense that someone like me would? It's not about how famous, powerful, or hot someone is in their day job but instead it's the predator reading a moment and taking advantage in a moment of vulnerability in their victim. And women are often as vulnerable in a magnified spotlight as they are when out of sight.

No, it doesn't make sense to me on any level. I get your point regarding vulnerability, but I can't even imagine bearing that sort of indignity in silence. 

In the case of that Taylor Swift photo, the power dynamic is flipped on its' head. This is a multi-platinum recording artist vs some dipshit midwest DJ. She should've slapped the living shit out of this guy.

Just as alien to me is the how common this sort of behavior seems to be for men during photo ops. There are a bunch of #metoo stories that center around these sorts of events. 

[Yukle]

1 hour ago, ants said:

In Australia one incident can also be harassment.  

 

1 hour ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

Not surprising. There are instances where particularly Australia has mimicked U.K. law.

Being against the law may not result in much of a penalty. And charges are hard to prove; they cannot be one person's word against another as the court must treat both as equally valid. There needs to be another source of evidence.

I'm not sure if either of you are implying that the law is too loose or trivial, but if this current trend in society shows anything: women sadly feel sexual harassment is normal in their lives. Whatever the law says, for the overwhelming bulk of women, nothing happens as a result of being abused.

And that is completely unacceptable.

[Mother Cocanuts]

49 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Sexual attraction isn't spoken about negatively.  In fact this is probably the most sex positive period in modern times (western culture).  What's talked about negatively is when sexuality is acted upon in a way that violates the bodily autonomy of another person.  Those sexually attracted to children, for example.  Those who grope, those who harass, etc.  I have no idea why you think you aren't allowed to notice attractive people (assuming these were adult females and not actually girls) so long as you aren't doing something that violates them in some way.  It's creepy what you wrote, but what's in a stranger's head when he or she walks by me doesn't matter to me if they aren't acting it out in some way.

Well heterosexual attraction exhibited by men has been demonized for years and still is. This period is not at all "sex-positive." Sure, we've seen more and more inclusion of LGBTQ, but sex-positivism is not necessarily about the inclusion of sexuality, but broadly the perception of sex itself. Customs and courting etiquette have been incredibly feminized to the point where every word and action must accommodate some hypersensitive laundry list. I mean, look at the responses here: having just an expectation of sexual interaction is "a betrayal of trust," "being a chode," "disgusting" "conducive to sexual harassment, assault, or rape." And men who have multiple female partners are rebuked. I agree that as long as no one is being harmed or violated, it should all be potatoes and gravy. Unfortunately, we've been arbitrarily expanding the concepts of violation and harm.

[Mother Cocanuts]

14 minutes ago, Yukle said:

I'm not sure if either of you are implying that the law is too loose or trivial,

No, I've stated that it's nonsensical.

[Dr. Pepper]

6 minutes ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

Well heterosexual attraction exhibited by men has been demonized for years and still is. This period is not at all "sex-positive." Sure, we've seen more and more inclusion of LGBTQ, but sex-positivism is not necessarily about the inclusion of sexuality, but broadly the perception of sex itself. Customs and courting etiquette have been incredibly feminized to the point where every word and action must accommodate some hypersensitive laundry list. I mean, look at the responses here: having just an expectation of sexual interaction is "a betrayal of trust," "being a chode," "disgusting" "conducive to sexual harassment, assault, or rape." And men who have multiple female partners are rebuked. I agree that as long as no one is being harmed or violated, it should all be potatoes and gravy. Unfortunately, we've been arbitrarily expanding the concepts of violation and harm.

Ok, someone tell me...is this person for real?  Because this is some fucked up shit right here and I'm just out of energy to be engaging with an outright troll.  

[Larry of the Lawn]

6 minutes ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

Well heterosexual attraction exhibited by men has been demonized for years and still is. This period is not at all "sex-positive." Sure, we've seen more and more inclusion of LGBTQ, but sex-positivism is not necessarily about the inclusion of sexuality, but broadly the perception of sex itself. Customs and courting etiquette have been incredibly feminized to the point where every word and action must accommodate some hypersensitive laundry list. I mean, look at the responses here: having just an expectation of sexual interaction is "a betrayal of trust," "being a chode," "disgusting" "conducive to sexual harassment, assault, or rape." And men who have multiple female partners are rebuked. I agree that as long as no one is being harmed or violated, it should all be potatoes and gravy. Unfortunately, we've been arbitrarily expanding the concepts of violation and harm.

Wut?  This is probably the most universally approved example of non-monogamy ever. 

Whether you're talking about on this board or in the USA or in the western world, men who have multiple partners are rarely 'rebuked' and typically encouraged.

What gives you the idea that the bolded statement is true?

[Dr. Pepper]

Sorry if this has already been posted. 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/paulmcleod/she-complained-that-a-powerful-congressman-harassed-her?utm_term=.pikA6wz5A#.bwxGVvZeG

Buzzfeed did a piece on Congressman Conyers (D) from Michigan after obtaining paperwork that indicated how he was a well known harasser and how the story of one specific woman didn't end up in the news.  It details the process of how congress sweeps this shit up under the run.  It's highly disturbing.  

Ultimately I think it's a good reason why Franken should be part of the group to be swept out of office.  The shit goes deep and with the same serial harassers, molesters and assaulters making the rules for how their victims are treated, nothing will change.  

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

32 minutes ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

Well heterosexual attraction exhibited by men has been demonized for years and still is. This period is not at all "sex-positive." Sure, we've seen more and more inclusion of LGBTQ, but sex-positivism is not necessarily about the inclusion of sexuality, but broadly the perception of sex itself. Customs and courting etiquette have been incredibly feminized to the point where every word and action must accommodate some hypersensitive laundry list. I mean, look at the responses here: having just an expectation of sexual interaction is "a betrayal of trust," "being a chode," "disgusting" "conducive to sexual harassment, assault, or rape." And men who have multiple female partners are rebuked. I agree that as long as no one is being harmed or violated, it should all be potatoes and gravy. Unfortunately, we've been arbitrarily expanding the concepts of violation and harm.

Why is it so hard to understand that EXPECTING sex is not the same thing as finding someone attractive?

It is that EXPECTATION that is the betrayal, that perpetuates the rape culture, that makes it hard to trust.   

the concepts of violation are not being arbitrarily expanded. A woman passed out used to be thought of as fair game...and many comics and jokes were made about it (Lampoons Animal House just one more example). We were ignorant then.  Society grows, it realizes it faults and it makes adjustments.  We stop VICTIM BLAMING. We look at what consent means, and we understand what really is required to consent. These are not arbitrarily.

Tell me one example of an arbitrarily expansion. 

[Mother Cocanuts]

11 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

Why is it so hard to understand that EXPECTING sex is not the same thing as finding someone attractive?

What's the point of sexual attraction without implicit sexual prospects? It's not hard to understand; you just haven't done a good job convincing me.

13 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

It is that EXPECTATION that is the betrayal,

Why?

15 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

that perpetuates the rape culture,

Okay, I'll indulge this: why?

15 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

makes it hard to trust.  

Why?

17 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

A woman passed out used to be thought of as fair game...and many comics and jokes were made about it (Lampoons Animal House just one more example).

When?

19 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

We were ignorant then.  Society grows, it realizes it faults and it makes adjustments. 

We became more sensitive with the passage of time, too.

20 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

We look at what consent means, and we understand what really is required to consent. These are not arbitrarily.

No. "We" don't understand what's really required to consent. When it all boils down, establishing consent is often subjective. To remove these subjective constraints, feminists have attempted and currently succeeded in legally objectivizing the establishment of consent by demanding arbitrary rules like explicit verbal consent.

 

25 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

Tell me one example of an arbitrarily expansion. 

Yes Means Yes Law.

[Kalbear]

1 hour ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

It's impossible for me to be a "troll" because, as I've stated numerous times: I don't care how anyone feels. Just because you have an emotional reaction, it doesn't mean that I'm provoking you. You can respond to the content of my post, or not. It's up to you.

So guys, I think it's important to frame this conversation with this statement. 

MC doesn't care how anyone feels. About anything. The only thing that matters is his viewpoint. Consent is simply a subjective value that he doesn't agree on, and essentially the only universal lack of consent he would recognize is someone actively preventing someone else via force doing things.

But grabbing someone's genitals without their permission? That's fine as long as they don't immediately strike back or further prevent you. 

That's who you're dealing with. The notion of other people's feelings mattering in any way, shape or form are essentially an alien concept. And the notion that other people should not have their body violated is also an alien concept. If you want to spend time attempting to address that with him, go at it - but keep in mind that's where he's going with this - that unless you have the strength to stop him, anything is permissible. 

Good luck.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 hour ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

The media. What gives you the idea that men have typically been encouraged?

 No reason.

 https://nebraskaenergyobserver.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/hugh-hefner-06-gty-jef-170927_4x3_992.jpg

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 hour ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

It's impossible for me to be a "troll" because, as I've stated numerous times: I don't care how anyone feels. Just because you have an emotional reaction, it doesn't mean that I'm provoking you. You can respond to the content of my post, or not. It's up to you.

Pretty much what Kal said with the addition that for someone who doesn't care about "teh feels", he's awfully sensitive.

[Kelli Fury]

9 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

She's just going to eat it and smile while her husband snaps a pic a few feet away?

And do we really think Franken is so brazen and stupid that he's going to do this in a public venue while the husband stands a few feet away?

You have scores of women who've worked with Franken over decades stating there's never been any incident or even a hint of an incident.

At the very least, he deserves the benefit of an investigation.

 

Okay, I’m back. As a HUGE FUCKING FAN of the Minnesota state fair I can tell you with absolute certainty one person could grab thousands of asses at this event in a single day and absolutely get away with it. In fact you will definitely touch more than one ass accidentally at this event. (When you are in Minnesota you excuse yourself after this by saying OPE! Let me just sneak right past ya here) There’s hundreds of thousands of people there. It’s a mosh pit where everyone is holding cameras and literal buckets of cookies while pushing a stroller. It’s just barely behind the Texas state fair for biggest fair in the country and it’s a way smaller state. The livestock competitions bring people and animals from all over the country. Al Franken stands in and sometimes outside of a wooden box only slightly bigger than a port a potty. Nobody would notice it from further than three feet away if you dropped your pants and took a shit on the sidewalk at the great Minnesota get together and it wouldn’t even be the weirdest thing they saw that day. Nobody would notice if Al Franken grabbed your ass. Nobody would pay the least bit of attention if you started screaming. And that is just the scenario at this event without taking into account that most women who report harassment or assault are not believed at all, are blamed for it, or face retribution. Unless they are going to kill you or something- it is easier for you and your life to just fake a smile and deal with it than it is to do anything else. 

This lady is a prime example where people cannot wait to say WHY DIDNT SHE __(insert what person thinks a victim is obligated to do)__?!? And that feels very shitty. So at minimum, someone in her position speaking up will be made to feel stupid and helpless when coming forward. At worst she will get the Anita Hill treatment and be called a crazy slut by the most powerful people in the world in front of everyone she knows. The options are all horrible and full of revictimization and shaming, unless you are a good girl and play along.

[Kelli Fury]

In addition to my other reasons to WHY DIDNT SHE_____?!? questions, I think very few men understand this one-

Women pretty much universally know that if you reject a man or do something he perceived as humiliating in some way, you’re probably in SO MUCH TROUBLE. We are physically smaller and weaker most of the time. We do not often have as much power socially or financially as a man. Women get murdered by men they reject all the time. Murdered. Pretty much all of us have been viciously insulted by a man we said no thank you to. The only usually successful way to avoid this is to replace I’m not interested with I have a boyfriend because a lot of dudes respect some imaginary other dude but not your ability to not be into them. If you’ve seen the screenshots from dating sites please be aware this isn’t even worse really than doing it in person. Dudes say that shit to your face, too, and that’s even scarier because most of the time they get in your personal space and/or start gesturing wildly in ways that show you what it might be like if they hit you. You absolutely know guys who do this because there are just so goddamn many we all know some. Women have to go into every situation thinking about what they can do to avoid getting raped/murdered/stalked/harassed/insulted/misconstrued as asking for something/drugged. All the time. That’s why we go to the bathroom in groups. That’s why tons of straight women hang out at gay bars. Almost every woman has stuff she would love to go do and doesn’t because it makes it too likely something will happen and the support system to address that if it does doesn’t exist yet.

[Kalbear]

We now have the celebrity perv apology generator.

"As a male feminist, harassment is completely unacceptable, especially when people find out about it. I will devote my life to finding the real Golden Globes party molester, and of course now I realize my behavior was wrong. In conclusion, I will get the help I so desperately need because this isn’t actually my fault, I have a problem so I’m not responsible for my actions."

"As the father of daughters, the allegations against me are troubling. I imagined that any woman would have been thrilled to see a tiny penis peeking out from below my pasty, middle-aged paunch like the head of a geriatric albino turtle moments from death, and of course now I realize my behavior was wrong. In conclusion, I will get the help I so desperately need because this isn’t actually my fault, I have a problem so I’m not responsible for my actions."

[Stubby]

[MOD]

Some posts have been deleted and a user has been banned.

It will therefore be impossible to get a reply.

[/MOD]