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NFL 2017: Jared vs. Case Is Why Fisher Will Never Coach Again


Mr. Chatywin et al.

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3 hours ago, Nictarion said:

George Iloka’s suspension reduced to just a fine (35k). 

JJSS’ stands...

I believe that JJSS' hit was clearly worth a penalty, and maybe fine worthy, but definitely not suspension worthy.  Until he taunted about it and after that he deserved what he got

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18 hours ago, Mexal said:

Iloka doesn't head hunt. He makes bad plays because he looks to dislodge the ball but he doesn't hit to injure. He doesn't talk shit, is great in the community and always says the right things. He has never had a history of head hunting in his career and you even have Mike Mitchell, scum that he is, vouching for him. Iloka was trying to make a football play and he hit the guy in the head. He deserved to get suspended but I don't think it was meant to be dirty.

The issue with Smith-Schuster's hit was that he put the helmet into Burfict's face then stood over him and taunted him. If he walked away, fair enough, it was a crack back block that turned bad. That happens. But he got into his face and taunted him while he was down injured, definitely concussed and given the caution, possibly worse. That's why it's really bad. Burfict was suspended 3 games for doing something similar, though without the taunting and without the helmet to helmet hit. JJSS deserved what he got. It wasn't a good play and it was a hit that has a strong history of ending seasons.

Agree on the taunting. Not necessary and probably what got him suspended. Surprised that Iloka got his reversed. I saw the post game interview with juju and you can hear Brown yelling "karma" in the background. Add that with juju taunting after the Burfict hit and that's probably why his stood. Steelers celebrated the hits when Iloka walked away after hitting ab. That's probably the difference here.

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20 minutes ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

Agree on the taunting. Not necessary and probably what got him suspended. Surprised that Iloka got his reversed. I saw the post game interview with juju and you can hear Brown yelling "karma" in the background. Add that with juju taunting after the Burfict hit and that's probably why his stood. Steelers celebrated the hits when Iloka walked away after hitting ab. That's probably the difference here.

Yea, I think that's a big part of it. The other thing is Burfict was suspended for a similar thing that JJSS did (for longer but he has a history). And on a weekly basis, we see hits like Iloka's get a fine but no suspension. Given Iloka's reaction to it and lack of negative history, they probably thought fining him was in line with past punishments.

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2 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

How do you know it's almost Christmas time?

The Brownies are cleaning house, that's how! Sashi is out as GM (or whatever the fuck his title was)

I honestly thought they were committed to being patient.

Have to wonder if Kizer over Watson is what sealed the deal.

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2 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

So Browns are going to hire a GM who didn't hire this coach and will want to replace him next year (assuming the team sucks out loud again)? Or is Hue Jackson getting more authority out of this?

I assume the Browns are going to fire Jackson, and just prefer to a little later (presumably at the end of the season).  You can argue Jackson got dealt a rough hand, but he is pretty clearly part of the problem. 

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1 minute ago, Maithanet said:

I assume the Browns are going to fire Jackson, and just prefer to a little later (presumably at the end of the season).  You can argue Jackson got dealt a rough hand, but he is pretty clearly part of the problem. 

Jimmy Haslam just said Jackson was going to be the coach in 2018 (naturally he could be lying but let's take him at his word, because we all know how honest Jimmy Haslam is). So he's also handcuffed his next GM on the most important decision a GM can make. Browns gonna Brown.

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17 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I assume the Browns are going to fire Jackson, and just prefer to a little later (presumably at the end of the season).  You can argue Jackson got dealt a rough hand, but he is pretty clearly part of the problem. 

Jackson is the main part of the problem in my opinion.  The front office drafted some talented players, certainly more than any other front office the team has had since coming back to Cleveland.  Jackson is just a shit coach.

At any rate, I made a personal promise that, if the Browns kept Hue Jackson and gave him more power, I was done with them.  Guess I'm transitioning to Panthers fandom next year officially.  Going to be weird. 

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Sad thing, I think the Browns made the right call postponing their real QB hire until this coming draft.  Very few people saw Watson being the QB he seems to be and their slot is one made for a safe pick, not a die roll.

The plan is working.  Not quickly, and Hue is probably not the choice to run it when the pieces are in place, but the team is shaping up nicely.

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3 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

Sad thing, I think the Browns made the right call postponing their real QB hire until this coming draft.  Very few people saw Watson being the QB he seems to be and their slot is one made for a safe pick, not a die roll.

The plan is working.  Not quickly, and Hue is probably not the choice to run it when the pieces are in place, but the team is shaping up nicely.

Well, it is without a doubt the wrong call in retrospect.  This is a results business, and they made the wrong call.  I can understand why they did it, lots of people were wrong about Watson, and they were one of them. 

In general I think that the Browns are still in good shape to be quite good in the future if the qb they draft this year can be at least decent.  In the NFL you can go from terrible to good in just a season, and it's possible that the Browns defense in 2018 will make the same jump the Jags defense did this year.   

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8 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Well, it is without a doubt the wrong call in retrospect.  This is a results business, and they made the wrong call.  I can understand why they did it, lots of people were wrong about Watson, and they were one of them. 

In general I think that the Browns are still in good shape to be quite good in the future if the qb they draft this year can be at least decent.  In the NFL you can go from terrible to good in just a season, and it's possible that the Browns defense in 2018 will make the same jump the Jags defense did this year.   

I dispute that even on a results basis.  It was never a one year plan.  It should not have been a one year plan.  It could not be a one year plan.  Anyone expecting a one year plan was doomed to failure.

Plus, it is too early to declare Watson a sure thing going forward.

There are NEVER ANY circumstances under which a decision maker should be judged on the basis of information that could not be had.

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3 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

I dispute that even on a results basis.  It was never a one year plan.  It should not have been a one year plan.  It could not be a one year plan.  Anyone expecting a one year plan was doomed to failure.

Plus, it is too early to declare Watson a sure thing going forward.

Well, I'm fairly sure that the Texans would rather have Watson, even coming off a knee injury, than their first round pick this year and last year.  QBs are never about just one year, but often just a one year sample can show "this guy has got it".  Watson isn't a sure thing, but it's a damn good start.
 

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There are NEVER ANY circumstances under which a decision maker should be judged on the basis of information that could not be had.

Could not be had?  Obviously the Texans felt there was sufficient information to determine he'd be good.  It's not like there isn't film of the guy, he actually has more game film vs top college defenses than almost any college prospect ever.  Some scouts interpreted that information to indicate that his weaknesses in things like accuracy mean he won't be a successful pro.  Other scouts saw his success vs NFL level defensive players as indicative that he could succeed.  While it remains to be seen which group was ultimately correct, the early returns are that the doubters were very, very wrong.  Just like they were for Russel Wilson about his height, Kirk Cousins about his arm strength, etc. 

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4 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

 While it remains to be seen which group was ultimately correct, the early returns are that the doubters were very, very wrong.  Just like they were for Russel Wilson about his height, Kirk Cousins about his arm strength, etc. 

Or RG III.  Or former Rookie of the Year Vince Young...

How many QB needy teams passed on Watson?  Bears, Niners, Jaguars, Chiefs, Jets,  Chargers?

And even the Texans.  It's not like they KNEW. Had they known, they'd have traded much farther up.

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6 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

Or RG III.  Or former Rookie of the Year Vince Young...

Vince Young may have won rookie of the year, but his stats (2,200 yards, 12 tds, 13 ints) are garbage compared to Watson (1700 yards, 19 tds, 8 ints in just 7 games).  RG3 would have been a good quarterback if he'd been able to recover from his knee injury.  He never did. 

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How many QB needy teams passed on Watson?  Bears, Niners, Jaguars, Chiefs, Jets,  Chargers?

And even the Texans.  It's not like they KNEW. Had they known, they'd have traded much farther up.

How is this making your point at all?  Lots of teams were wrong about Watson, and the Browns were one of them.  The information you needed to see that Watson would succeed was there.  The Texans saw it and the Browns missed it. 

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On 12/5/2017 at 0:00 PM, DanteGabriel said:

Not sure what Shazier's status has to do with how valid Burfict's injury was, but your bloodthirsty ranting makes it clear that reason has abandoned these premises.

ETA: From Kneecap Von Oelhoffen to Hines Ward's crackbacks to James Harrison's pile of fines  to  Mike Mitchell's headhunting, maybe you Yinzers shouldn't be playing victim in a brutal division that your team (as Jaime L put it so well after that last playoff debacle) has done the most to weaponize. Your own quarterback dismissed last night's shitshow as just "AFC North football" like it was a goddamn branding exercise.

I like the Drew Magary solution:

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Ravens at Steelers: Look man, at least half of all the NFL’s problems could be solved merely by deleting the AFC North. The Bengals are the dirtiest team in football (seeing them playing in their stadium on TV is somehow a depressing sight in and of itself). The Steelers are even dirtier but pretend they aren’t. The Ravens are scum. And the New Browns never should have existed to begin with. Tell me you’d miss the AFC North if we got rid of it. YOU CANNOT. Contract those four, hold a dispersal draft in which every team but the Patriots gets a few picks, and BOOM! Suddenly the NFL is hot shit again.

:P

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29 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Jimmy Haslam just said Jackson was going to be the coach in 2018 (naturally he could be lying but let's take him at his word, because we all know how honest Jimmy Haslam is). So he's also handcuffed his next GM on the most important decision a GM can make. Browns gonna Brown.

As Browns owner he understands things can still get worse than the 1-27 record that Hue Jackson has put up and I applaud him for his clear-eyed appraisal of the situation. #AimLow

2 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

Sad thing, I think the Browns made the right call postponing their real QB hire until this coming draft.  Very few people saw Watson being the QB he seems to be and their slot is one made for a safe pick, not a die roll.

The plan is working.  Not quickly, and Hue is probably not the choice to run it when the pieces are in place, but the team is shaping up nicely.

Well they postponed by not taking Wentz. Don't think they postponed with Watson...they just chose someone else whom they thought would be just as good, Kizer So-So, which freed up another high pick to be used for help elsewhere. Generally trading down for more picks is hard to criticize as the draft is a crapshoot, Belichick will tell you that, but it looks pretty awful in retrospect when you gave up your chance at two guys who look like franchise QBs. And doubly so when you've destroyed the confidence of the guy you half-assed it with instead because your 1-27 coach keeps yanking him in and out of the lineup depending on the week.

Not great, Jim! 

 

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13 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Hey Jaime, you're probably pretty jealous you didn't get too invested in the Redskins season now eh?  It's been a rollercoaster of excitement.  I mean sure, you didn't have to endure the agony of getting swept by the suddenly good Eagles, getting blown out twice by the totally not that good Cowboys, or the astonishing collapse in the final 4 minutes vs New Orleans.  But you also missed the great moments like...the Oakland game!  And...surely there's more than that right?  I guess that time Seattle missed three field goals?  That was pretty cool I guess. 

Anyways.  SUCKER.

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29 minutes ago, Week said:

I like the Drew Magary solution:

:P

I just read that myself. I'm looking for drawbacks. I can't think of anything more wonderful than suddenly bereft Steeler fans trying to figure if they could cheer for the Eagles.

 

28 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

As Browns owner he understands things can still get worse than the 1-27 record that Hue Jackson has put up and I applaud him for his clear-eyed appraisal of the situation. #AimLow

He could do worse, it's true. He could have hired the defensive specialist coach who ruined a historically great defense and who just  got dunked on by his old boss. 

28 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Kizer So-So

You've killed me.

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I’ve been very frustrated with the lack of serious updates concerning the Shazier injury. I’m not talking as a fan, but just as one person caring for the well being of another. The latest is that he had surgery last night to stabilize his spine, this after reports that he would not require surgery. On top of that, besides an initial report that he had some feeling, no updates on whether the man can walk. This is the one thing I’m pretty sure everyone wants to know. I don’t care if he ever plays again, I just want to hear he can walk. I understand if his family doesn’t want any info shared, but have the team say that.

Ian Rapport just came out and said that now they are saying recovery will be in the months and that he won’t play again this year. Yet he left out the most crucial thing, can the guy feel anything? Part of me believes the NFL is hiding the fact that one of their players was paralyzed, and in a week or so they’ll admit it while also blaming the surgery for causing it.  

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